Patriotic American

I remember a time when America was loved by most and hated by some, now its the other way around. Our presence in some areas of the world wasn't necessarily always loved but was tolerated because an attack on that country meant an attack on the US. Other freedom loving country's didn't want us there but their fear allowed it.
Sometimes , I think what a waste it was for humanity, 50 years of cold war, billions spent in R&D looking for the next "miracle" weapon to fend off the"red tide," and vice versa, billions andbillions that could have been spent in peaceful ways, better medicine, more efficient fuel or a more planet friendly fuel.
Somebody had a thread the other day, Is our patriotism worth it? I didnt post in it because I've grown used to these types of posts at this site. There is at least 3 anti-American threads each week here at ATS I usually ignore them because they are so predictable. Hating America is the "thing" to do. When a person wants to try and prove how corrupt we are they claim voter fraud put Bush in office and when they want to try and prove how stupid we are they claim it was a fair election and we voted him in, their arguments are always bent to their convenience.
Personally, I think both elections were fraudulent, I didn't vote in either.
To answer the question though, yes to me it's worth it. I've had a great life here, me or my kids have never been seen the ravages of war in our country. We've never had to live with soldiers at every intersection or in the stores etc.. Yes I love my country absolutely but I despise Bush and most elected officials. What most needs to happen is something that will never happen. Every member of Congress needs to be replaced, one way to do that is term limits and another (less likely) way to do it is for people to get off their butts and quit voting for a "familiar name" and vote on principle and truths.
The Bush Admin is taking our country in a direction that I'm not at all comfortable with and I don't think that the coming elections will slow that momentum, regardless of who is elected.
This post was thrown together quite rapidly and is not really directed at anyone or anything, which is why its in skunk works. It is just me being bored and I guess sort of reacting to some threads ive seen the last few weeks that asked if some of us Americans could be Patriotic, even given our past.. I answer with a resounding YES.
I just wanted to make it clear that the death of my Nation has been greatly exagerated, despite what some may have heard or wished. No we arent perfect but we arent dead, very far from it.
So to give as straight an answer that I know how. Hell yes, I am very proud to be an American, proud to be a citizen of the wealthiest most powerful Nation in the world. Do I have problems with some things going on here? Sure but when push comes to shove, I and many, MANY others will fight like hell to ensure that we remain at the pinnacle of the world. Flame all you want, this is how I feel and nothing can be said to change that.





[edit on 17-5-2007 by Kr0n0s]

Good post KrOnOs. Your thread and mine have a lot in common. I wish you had investigated the facts in "Is Our Patriotism Worth It?" You see, never judge a book by it's cover. I, and many others, expressed the very same ideas and ideals there that you are doing so well here.

We both want to bring America back to the glory it once had. My heading was misleading on purpose to generate debate. We have been moved to the Rant section, which I took as a slap towards the ideals that we sought to convey.

Ask Angry American or Blaine19555 or others. I mention this because I want you to know that I too support the same basic ideas it would seem. I think we were moved for being too passionate. But I find that not to be a fault in those who love this nation.

Come visit if you like, proud Americans are always welcome. ( A flag to you on this thread.)

Well NGC2736, I have to admit that the post you made is one of the posts that I am referring to. I guess that I should have actually taken time to read it. Dont have the time right now but I will read it later this morning.
Thanks for the flag, I was honestly expecting a tirade from you, directed at me
I had a lot more originally in the post but I cut it in half, so that it would be a little more reader friendly for all, I know I hate reading novels on here lol.

[edit on 17-5-2007 by Kr0n0s]

Critiquing US policies and actions at home and abroad isnt an attack on Americans, or American ideals. In fact, critiques of US policy is exactly what democracy is about. Far from attacking America as a country, or Americans as people, many threads i have participated in have been well thoughout critiques of interventionism, of which, the American people are vicitims aswell.

However, i do agree that some people dont seem to realize its not Americans that are persuing destructive policies around the globe, but rather their leaders (and more times their leaders dont represent the interests of the public.)

I posted in the thread "Is America worth the patriotism"
Here is a cut and paste of my post in that thread.

Very interesting post. Well done.
My answer is yes. I truly believe that America is worth the patriotism. As the OP pointed out, there is alot that is broken with her, but I love her, and would die to defend her without hesitation. While the government is in dire need of a complete overhaul, as does the judicial system, America the beautiful is a country where dreams can truly happen. I'm older than alot of the members here, but when I was born in the early 60's, there were restrooms for whites, and restrooms for blacks - nearly everything was segregated. Today, there is a real possibility that a black man might be the next president of the US. Without sounding sappy, both sets of my grandparents came over to the US from Italy. They had absolutely nothing, and dreamed of living in the country where the streets were paved with gold. They worked hard, raised families, and lived the American dream.
Are there things in American history which I wish we could erase? You bet. Are there things going on today that drive me crazy? You bet.
The governing body of America is fat and complacent. The words "For the people, by the people" seem to be all but forgotten.

I stand, remove my hat, and put my hand on my heart when the National Anthem is played. I get misty eyed when I hear the Star Spangled Banner.
I've always respected the American flag. But after 9/11, I'll never look at that beautiful flag the same way again. Do you remember right after 9/11? I'm not ashamed to admit that I cried more that day than I have in the 40 something years of my life.
Remember that the petty hatred amongst Americans practically disappeared? We were one nation, and one set of brothers. There was a respect for other people when just the day before there was some petty reason to dislike the same person. When we all stood together and proclaimed "I am an American!" When every time the Star Spangled Banner, or America the Beautiful was played we all stopped what we were doing, and stood riveted. I remember that. That is the America I love, and wish would be permanent.
Yes I believe that she is worth the patriotism.
This is written by one damn proud American.

Patriotism seems to be the issue with the world.

"Im this..."
"Oh, are you? Well Im, such and such"

"Well nice to know who you are now."

We are so much more than a label, more than a nation, more than a religion.
This divides, separates, helps create an "identity" of "me" and this is "yours"...as if this makes any true difference. Not sure the worms really care what you are once you are 6ft under if you catch my drift. Or, if you are a Christian, or what not, Im sure God aint going to ask if you were American or Chinese.

I have seen it everywhere. I have lived in about 7 states - (Im from the south, Im from the north) I have lived in about 7 countries....I currently live in Hungary.

It seems that the more you travel, the more open your mind becomes and you realize all this doesn't matter. The worst are the small towns where people lived their whole life and think they know that the world spins around them. (I have seen this in American and here where I live in Hungary.)

We are a prideful lot of 'ants' in this ever expanding (contracting if thats your belief) universe.

If Im not "something" other than what I am "now" (which is the only moment there ever is...anything else is a thought form of a past moment or anticipation for another present moment...and even then a bad translation, as its seen through the eyes of your experience then.), so again, this needing to 'belong' have an 'identity' separates.

We cry for peace, and we have war.
Well of course...as long as your life is based on external 'stories' about yourself...this will happen.

Im Christian, therefore I cannot rest until everyone thinks as I do (insert any religion here). I am American and democracy is the only way, or communism is the only way.

They are all the same...they have leaders which represent the mass consciousness of that society.

Israel wasn't meant to have a king (I know the Jewish argument of that, but at this point I will continue down the path of thought I have chosen)...what does this mean? It means that we know what to do...

"do what you will" just know that what you do will come back to you, as you are from the same "source"/"God" that all things in existence comes from.

What you see in someone else that you do not like is a reflection of something in you that you do not like.

The world has peace, when you have peace with yourself...and acceptance...for yourself as you are and others, without trying to "change things"

For Christians, its the example Jesus showed of not trying to change people...but accepting them. (and that means truly, not, 'I accept you cause I know you will stop prostitution'. Jesus never saw the prostitute, as that is a 'story' of a person. Remember we live only in one moment...the present. Anything else is a story which can be a 'cage'.)

Back to the patriotic thing.
Here in Hungary its the "patriotic sorrow"
What a 'story'. After all, they were beaten by the Turks, Austrians, Germans, Americans, Russians, who did I leave out. There was a 'golden age once", etc.

There identity is that with "patriotic sorrow" and they will be proud to tell you so.

What a "sh****" story folks. But dude, ego will take anything...sometimes the sorrowful story is more fulfilling. Dont worry, no one will take your sorrow from you.

So, consider this. Dump the "I am this, you are that" - you will find that things work out quite nicely.

Peace

dAlen

Hey NGC2736, I read your thread titled "Is America Worth Patriotism" but I couldnt reply to it for whatever reason. Its a good post and I wish I'd read it sooner but like i said I thought it was just another anti-American thread at first lol..
To you "Inspiteof" I understand what you are saying and I have no problems with people who have legitimate grievances with Bush's policys and decisions etc..
What I am talking about when I mention the anti-American posts are the typical
"Americans suck" I hope yall are invaded and fall etc..
Most of the people that I meet on the internet, Ive met playing games. Starting way back in about 1997 when I played Quake on my 112kbps ISDN line lol, until now but on a much faster line
My son and I also play Halo 2 a lot on Xbox live and meet many people from different nations there and although most people are cool there are always those that yell at my kid, calling him a fat (which hes not) spoiled American brat etc...
I know there are also Americans that do the same thing that goes without saying, ignorance knows no borders.
After 9/11 most of the people were cool and sympathetic but around 03 or 04 I began to notice a lot more hostility against Americans because of the decisions our govt has made. Like i said, people will either blame ignorance or corruption for Bush being elected, depending on the point theyre trying to make.
I cant do anything about our current policies, emails and or letters arent going to work, politicians arent afraid anymore. Like i said before, people are going to vote for what they are comfortable with, for the most part they dont look at a congressman's voting record, they vote for the name.
It really does sadden me to see innocent civilians hurt and killed in Iraq, especially the children but I cant do anything about it.
I am hoping an admin change in 08 will make some changes but of course that all depends on who is really in charge of the White House. Of course if someone else is pulling the strings the changes may take longer to change, if at all.
I come from a fairly patriotic family but we arent "zealots". We dont live extravagantly and we arent war mongers. I did serve my country but I did so on a 200 ft Coast Guard Cutter, to me that was more exciting than marching 10 miles a day and it was fun.
Anyway, I think ive made my point. Also, NGC2736, if I had actually read your thread I woudldnt have even made this post so I apologize for my redundancy.
Thanks for yalls attention

Big K, patriotism is never redundant! And if the people who bash America get you down again, just bear in mind that there are a lot of us who want the best for Old Glory, and the land she flies for.

And because liberty is so great, some of us will work till our dieing day to make this nation a place that we can all be proud to leave to our children.

I too served, but I wasn't smart enough to find a boat. Oh no, I wore out about 20 pairs of boots.