Freemasonry, Templars, the New World, and Celts.

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posted on May, 16 2007 @ 05:29 PM
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MODS: I put this essay in General Conspiracy because it is not directly linked to Secret Societies, and once completed, will be about very many different topics..

PART ONE:

If there is one mystery involving Masonry, it in its self cannot be figured out. This is because no one has yet proven the knowledge of that one mystery.. but that every single mystery is but a single mystery put together and once done so, I do believe we can figure out the single, greatest mystery of Masonry..

All the secrets and half truths of Masonry lead to some people, that Masonry is a conspiracy, and to an extent that could be correct. Masonry began, sometime after the fall of the Templar of Europe.. but no one knows “exactly when” so to speak, and no one knows.. exactly why.

At the exact same time some people believe the very founding of Masonry where being laid out, Templar where still seemingly active, even though they where persecuted and attacked by the Church and the Kingdom of France.

And at the exact same time of the Templar rise to power, it seems archaeologist are now finding evidence of an “advanced” civilization or colonization of the United States Eastern Sea bored.. as well as northern areas of Canada, especially and most significantly around Novia Scotia, and the Great Lakes..

And during the Templar’s life span, they where no doubt incredibly rich, and their military knew no competition until the development of “Damascus Steel” .. a new forging method for much stronger, lighter steel……

Interesting, how so much fits in within the same time frame..

And I believe it could be the connections of these, and many more individual mysteries, that may become the whole truth of the single mystery of Freemasonry.

Let me begin with the Celtic peoples…

Not many people connect Celtic civilization and Freemasonry, and the Templar..

I start with the Celts for a variety of reasons.. first off, they may have been the very first people to ever step foot on the New World, that is, from Europe. It is hypothesized by some scholars that the Phoenicians and the Egyptians also made it to the New World.. and the evidence is rather staggering to support these claims.

We know for an obvious fact that Ice Land was colonized by the Viking nation around 870AD .. it is a far longer sail to Iceland, from Scandinavia, then it is from Ice Land, to Canada and Green Land…

Green Land was then colonized, at Brattahlid in the year 985AD

Would it be safe, safe at all.. to assume no ship ever sailed past Brattahlid on the Green Land coast, deep in arctic water for the next 1,100 years?

I would honestly hope not.

While Viking and Celtic civilizations share many characteristics, they are not the same, and are not of the same family, be in culturally or ethnically, however being so close to the British Isles their cultures wore off a little on each other, but not to the point that Norse Men dropped their religion and picked up the ways of their Celtic neighbors.. which is extremely important and I will finish my point a little later, but it contains the proof that someone besides Vikings made to the New World long before Columbus was even born.. and then I will connect it to Freemasonry.


While the Viking people did in fact found Green Land, and Iceland within the same time period, many believe that Erik the Red actually continued on to America after establishing his outpost in Greenland, however historic evidence through writings and legend, show that in a time frame of about 30 some odd years, the Viking people extensively navigated the chilly, dangerous arctic waters.. eventually in the year 985 the same year Erik the Red founded the last outpost, Bjarni Herjolfsson navigated the outer coast of Canada, as an expedition, and returned with the news of a further land..

In the year 1000AD Lief Eriksson landed on the American / Canadian coast, explored, possibly settled, and most likely raided.. It is believed that Newfoundland is the Vinland that Eriksson wrote about..

Ironically it appears from historical articles, that the Norse Men went to America for the same reason the English and the Spanish went.. first and for most riches and gold and all the typically good stuff.. but they all wanted one thing above all else..

Timber.



This is significant in two ways..

First, the New World was not so New when Columbus got there..

To think that the Vikings explored this area with extreme interest, extreme expenses and resources went into each expedition… and not make a single map? .. Not keep some kind of record of its existence?

Vikings obviously kept the knowledge, but kept it from everyone else… I believe the voyage was so far and harsh that they simply decided not to colonize it at that time.. while they where brutal warrior peoples, their technology was not so far ahead of Native American’s that they could easily conquer.. they had no guns, just ax and sword. I do not believe, and many historians as well, that the Viking people had the ability to conquer a land so vast and far away.

But, they still landed in the New World, no small feat. And since the Norse Men got there, what’s to say no one else did?

Well, actually there is more evidence of at least one other known adventurer (by name anyways) .. a Celt. A Welshman to be exact.

Madog ab Owain Gwynedd..

This is primarily a Welsh legend, but behind all legends, there is a truth.. it is possible that this man made it to the New World, and at the end of the legend, he came back from the New World, told of its wonder, took a few settlers with them and went back, never to be heard from again.

According to this legend, Owain’s description has historians believe he landed somewhere around Mobile Alabama.. and after attaining a group of settlers for his second voyage, in the year 1169 Owain established a settlement in the Mississippi.

Sadly enough, historians hypothesize that it is rather likely that the Welsh settlers continued north into the Dakota regions, and where found by American’s during the Revolutionary War, and where entirely wiped out as a race…… by small pox.

Soldiers accounts said the Mandan Indians as they where called, where light skinned, light haired, and had long beards. Sounds almost European huh?

Historic insight into the language used, their writing skills which is few among Indian peoples, and their engineering abilities closely relate to Celtic in nature, possibly Welsh..

During the Revolutionary War, a Welsh soldier had reported once that while serving in the Ohio region, that he conversed in broken Welsh with one Indian Tribe, though it cannot be solidly verified.

If anyone reading this is Welsh and knows their history.. it should be evident that this is not at all new news to the Welsh.. in fact, in the late 1790’s Welsh peoples celebrated “Prince Madog” as the sovereign king of the New World and claimed the lands for Wales. Of course, this was mostly nationalistic pride speaking, but it shows evidence that people firmly believed in the Welsh settlers.

Just a little bit of trivia for you, it is believed Lewis of the Lewis and Clark expedition was a Welsh decendant, and that their guide, Sacajawia was a Mandan Indian.


From Britannia on the naming of America after a Welshman..


According to research conducted by an English College professor, America did not take its name from Amerigo Vespucci, but from a senior collector of Customs at Bristol, the main port from which English voyages of discovery sailed in the late 15th century. Dr. Basil Cottle, who is himself of Welsh birth, tells us that the official was Richard Amerik, one of the chief investors in the second transatlantic voyage of John Cabot, which led to the famous navigator receiving the King's Pension for his discoveries.

John Cabot landed in the New World in May 1497, becoming the first recorded European to set foot on American soil. As far as Amerik's Welsh connection is concerned, the word "Amerik" itself seems to be derived from ap Meuric, Welsh for the son of Maurice. (The later was anglicized further to Morris). There was a large Welsh population in Bristol in the late 15th century.

Because Cabot's voyages were made before the year 1500, they pre-date Amerigo Vespucci's interest in the New World. Professor Cottle reminds us that new countries or continents are never named after a person's first name, always after his or her second name. Thus, America would have become "Vespucci Land" if the Italian explorer really gave his name to the newly discovered continent (i.e. Tasmania, Van Dieman's Land, Cook Islands, etc.). It seems that countries or territories are named after first names only when the name is that of a royal personage such as Prince Edward Island, Victoria, etc.).


Britannia


I am going to stop here, and see if there is any interest so far. Before I get into the aspects of Freemasonry, the Knights Templar and their possible secret voyages and settlements, I want to see if anyone is interested in the historical significance and the conspiracy behind ..... how our history is written.


Or if people only want to here the bit about Masons.




posted on May, 16 2007 @ 06:21 PM
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I'm not going to pick holes in your essay, just to say you are making some connections that simply do not exist and are based on some misinterpretations. I won't even go into the Celts....

The Vikings had no need to travel to the Americas for timber. Europe suffered no shortage of timbers until the 1700s, very much the opposite in fact. Even then the British simply deforested Ireland rather than travel that distance. The UK was covered in primordial forest (which is why we had bears and wolves) as was much of mainland europe.

Secondly, the Vikings barely had a written language so cartography was never going to be an option. They had little need in their culture for writing or maps specifically. They were masters of the sea and knew the stars like the backs of their hands.

The only other point I would like to make is that the americas were obviously settled much earlier on, 'native' americans not 'indigenous'. Important distinction.

Remember Columbus wasn't looking for the americas - they though probably did not realise it was the same continent as the already discovered north - they were looking for a sea route to India. Hence 'Indians'.



posted on May, 16 2007 @ 08:42 PM
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just to say you are making some connections that simply do not exist and are based on some misinterpretations.


Making connections? Absolutely, however I have not actually presented the connections yet, so what connections said where not "correct" .. aside from that, everything historical has connections, and nothing is set in stone.




I won't even go into the Celts....



Why not? As a studier of Gaelic histories, I would be pleased to have a discussion with you about it, however not many people appreciate the history of the Celts, which include the Native peoples of the British Isles, France, Western Germany and Northern Spain.

Do you say Celts are not capable of "exploring" or "finding" the New World on their own?




The Vikings had no need to travel to the Americas for timber. Europe suffered no shortage of timbers until the 1700s, very much the opposite in fact. Even then the British simply deforested Ireland rather than travel that distance. The UK was covered in primordial forest (which is why we had bears and wolves) as was much of mainland europe.


Right and Wrong.

Lets take Britain for example, they had and still have forest, however in times of great warefare, especially later on in the 16-1800's they had a run on timber, not to mention building for expanding population growth.

When it came down to it, almost every European nation would much rather use someone elses timber supply then deplete their own, leaving their own supplies for wars and so on...

An example is Spain, who used timber supplies from other nations, including Ireland during naval wars..

As did Britain, who also used vast amounts of Ireland's timber, even when they had their own supplies..

Britain when they established settlements in the New World, timber was one of the biggest exports, exporting it to Britain, but also to almost every industrial nation in the world... the entire Eastern United States was once vast forest, much of which was destroyed and exported or used locally.




Secondly, the Vikings barely had a written language so cartography was never going to be an option. They had little need in their culture for writing or maps specifically. They were masters of the sea and knew the stars like the backs of their hands.


Most Norse history was passed down orally, however they did have a written system, and where able map makers..

Aside from that, you are very correct in "knowing the stars" which is apart of the "connection" I have yet to get to.



The only other point I would like to make is that the americas were obviously settled much earlier on, 'native' americans not 'indigenous'. Important distinction.


Ah yes American Indian.

However, did I not say in my thread so far "first European" ect?

I never said "First inhabitant" but "first to find" from European perspectives.






Remember Columbus wasn't looking for the americas - they though probably did not realise it was the same continent as the already discovered north - they were looking for a sea route to India. Hence 'Indians'.


To look for America is impossible.

Why?

Because to look for something one must know where something exist, and then look for it.. if no one "knew" America existed, who would look for it?

It was found by accident, much like the Norse probably found it by accident...

Unless..

There is some ancient method in which someone could navigate the waters?



posted on May, 17 2007 @ 02:22 AM
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Originally posted by Rockpuck
Making connections? Absolutely, however I have not actually presented the connections yet, so what connections said where not "correct" .. aside from that, everything historical has connections, and nothing is set in stone.

I agree entirely, however, if you start with half-truths then your conclusion is going to have very little basis in fact. It would have perhaps been more helpful if you had outlined your hypothese at the beginning, then your narrative and the direction that you intend to take the reader would be clearer.

I only stated that I would not mention the Celts as you had not as yet opined on the matter. The celts of course were highly travelled, contact with a people matching the Celts is described as early as 400BC in italy. But until you actually outline the point of your essay it is impossible to comment. Similarly the Knights Templar. I would be happy to discuss both these subjects with you. I am currently studying aspects of the crusades, so we may have much in common. It was more to do with the fact that you hadn't really mentioned how they fitted in to your hypothese, not that you had raised erroneous points.



Lets take Britain for example, they had and still have forest, however in times of great warefare, especially later on in the 16-1800's they had a run on timber, not to mention building for expanding population growth

When it came down to it, almost every European nation would much rather use someone elses timber supply then deplete their own, leaving their own supplies for wars and so on...

An example is Spain, who used timber supplies from other nations, including Ireland during naval wars..

As did Britain, who also used vast amounts of Ireland's timber, even when they had their own supplies..

Britain when they established settlements in the New World, timber was one of the biggest exports, exporting it to Britain, but also to almost every industrial nation in the world... the entire Eastern United States was once vast forest, much of which was destroyed and exported or used locally.


Now we are going to have to agree to disagree on this one. Britain is considerably deforested, there is only small areas of protected mixed woods, our primordial forests, as well as the species that existed there have been destroyed by over use and land clearance. I myslef actually live in what would have been the middle of Galtres forest, which at one time stretched through to Northumbria and down to Sherwood. There isn't even a copse for a good 50 miles from here. I actually found a broken wolves claw in my garden a couple of months back when removing a rose bush - but that's another story....

You have to consider who had the ability to transport wood for those distances, I am not discounting your theory, just questioning how feasible it is. Especially given the richness of the woods offered in scandinavia both then and now.

It is my opinion that fishing and whaling would have been what drew the vikings, and though they may have taken advantage of the local timbers to build boats nad settlements, the boats that they had certainly would not have been suitable for transporting timber. I think that certainly they would have set up stations to process whales for transportation back to Europe.



Most Norse history was passed down orally, however they did have a written system, and where able map makers..

Aside from that, you are very correct in "knowing the stars" which is apart of the "connection" I have yet to get to.


The written system that they had was largely runic, not great for expression - as you point out they had a very rich oral tradition. I haven't seem a Viking map (I incidently live in 'Yorvik'), but that is not to say that they didn't exist and certainly other nations had made attempts at map making by this time. Certainly in areas of Europe, including Britain, they would have encountered much more advanced civilisations than their own. They certainly developed their abilites as artisans during the period they were in Britain, once they had finished the customary raping and pillageing that is.



There is some ancient method in which someone could navigate the waters?


Oops sorry, however again I reiterate, it would have been helpful if you had outlined your key points to begin with. Mystery is all very well, but it does not aid the reader. I look forward to part two.

All the best

[edit on 17-5-2007 by KilgoreTrout]

[edit on 17-5-2007 by KilgoreTrout]
Mods - can't seem to get the edit to stick - quote boxes in disarray - help!

[edit on 17-5-2007 by KilgoreTrout]



posted on May, 17 2007 @ 10:05 AM
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interesting... I'm waiting for part 2


I would like to see the connections made, between all these races/cultures/etc.



posted on May, 17 2007 @ 10:49 AM
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Rockpuck

I've just re-read your essay and I realised that I overlooked your reference to the Celts.

It is quite a subjective point, and depends on whether you are English (as I am), Welsh, Irish or Scots, but I do think that most would agree with me that it would be a stretch to label 12th century welsh as Celts. Certainly they were very influential on the culture and identity of the Britons at that time but they were also completely assimilated and had, like us all, been bred in and out of the various invaders. You would, in my opinion, find few people at that time (less than you will find today in fact) that would have described themselves as Celts. As I said it is subjective. Gaelic certainly was not spoken in wales by this time and they described themselves as Britons. The Celts though dis have a huge impact on the British Isles and were able to work with the Romans very effectively as artisans.

This of course does not detract from your reference to Madog ab Owain Gwynedd, who quite possibly did reach america, as you say in every legend there is a semblance of truth.

Out of interest. Have you considered the land route to the americas at all? I know that this is largely discounted because of the period of time that it is frozen each year but I for one, feel that some isolated migrations must have surely used this route. Some of the nomadic eastern europeans (like the Celts) and northern asian tribes I feel must have made this exploration. To me it seems strange for them not to have done so. The 'native' peoples did at some point, so why wouldn't others follow the same route. Anyway off track, sorry. Still waiting for the next installment....



posted on May, 17 2007 @ 12:02 PM
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Personally, I feel that Masonry goes all the way back to the Pyramids and the builders of the megalithic monuments. As helpful as Rockpuck's essay is, I feel he is neglecting the mention of Euclid. According to the Halliwell Manuscript, a Masonic poem in Middle English which dates to approximately 1390, the Masons of England felt that their origins dated back to at least Euclid.

freemasonry.bcy.ca...



posted on May, 17 2007 @ 12:11 PM
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This will be a big shocker but neither the Irish, Scots, or Welsh are Celts! While the Welsh have been speaking Gaelic ever since the first (apparent) Celtic invasion of the British Isles, genetically they are not Celtic and are in fact more closely related to the Basque people.

news.bbc.co.uk...
www.freerepublic.com...




[edit on 17-5-2007 by uberarcanist]



posted on May, 17 2007 @ 03:21 PM
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Originally posted by uberarcanist
This will be a big shocker but neither the Irish, Scots, or Welsh are Celts! While the Welsh have been speaking Gaelic ever since the first (apparent) Celtic invasion of the British Isles, genetically they are not Celtic and are in fact more closely related to the Basque people.

news.bbc.co.uk...
www.freerepublic.com...

[edit on 17-5-2007 by uberarcanist]


Part II is almost done, nearly finished friends!

To the quoted post.

It is in fact true that no Celtic race exist in this world at the present time, because it has been diluted with other races, mainly Saxxon/Norse/Norman ect.. the closest genetic relitives to the (Irish) people are actually Spanish peoples..

However, a new race can be created rather easily, isolation and no immigration or at least very little, over hundreds of years will create a new "ethnicity" through inbreeding of the same basic genetics.

By the time of 1000AD the Welsh where no longer "Celtic" in genetics, by a long shot actually, they where English and the genetic soup that they are. However, they where Celtic in culture, that survived, and they did speak Gaelic, as they still do, though the English dominated the area through war and so forth, the language was suppressed, but did not die.

Same thing with the Scots, mostly of British decent, genetically they are no longer Celts but their culture and life styles where -- this is what I relate to when I say Celtics, the culture, lifestyle, nationalities and so forth. Ethnic differences offer little advances above others in intelligence, so we must assume the level of knowledge is then sponsored by the peoples who harbor them.

The Irish where the last to officially "die off" in the western lands Celts remained dominate in population for quite a while, at least into 300-400BC and possibly longer, Gaelic surnames are still to this day prevalent in the Gaeltachtaí regions of Ireland.

And as a pure blood Celt may not exist, their genetics where simply mixed in with invaders, immigrants, so on and so forth.. the genetic line was not broken, only altered.

Mmkay back to work!



posted on May, 17 2007 @ 04:04 PM
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We here all look at conspiracies in some manor, some way shape or form.. whether or not you believe in them whole heartedly is entirely your decision.. whether or not you think there is an ounce of truth is only answered by your own inquiries..

The biggest conspiracy of all time, is not who rules the world through the powers of industry, world domination through wealth and secret armies.. or knowledge of secrets, the gathering of various men and women from various clubs, organizations, societies or institutions..

The biggest conspiracy of all time is who, and why, and how history its self is written.

Think about this, for just one second.

When you where a kid you learned about Christopher Columbus, he sailed the ocean blue in 1492. You learned about what a genius he was for finding America and establishing the biggest wave of emigration the world has ever known.. all the while having peaceful thanksgivings with the Indians.

What you don’t learn in school.. is the perspectives of those who where effected most. You do not learn what it was like for the Native peoples, how they where exploited, how Columbus saw them fit for no less then the worst servant labors..

You will not learn in school that Columbus intended to, with the assistance of the Spanish Crown, exploit the land and people in the most horrific and brutal ways, all for the glory of the Crown and the next powerful expedition to the Holy Land.

History is one sided.. because if all views where to be taken into account, well every history book about any given topic could very well fill an entire bookshelf just in its self.

There is not a single event in history that is taught that escapes this.. from the second world war, where we focus on the horrific deeds of Hitler, yet do not take into perspective the typical Nazi soldier and family..

In the revolutionary war, we disregard the perspectives of the Loyalist..

Clear back to the age of the Egyptians, we learn they built the mighty pyramids … yet we do not look at the perspective that it was slave labor that built them, the lives of the workers where hell, all for the feat of building a massive grave.

And many times, important facts are entirely omitted.. for instance, the Gulf of tonken was staged, government insiders admitted as much, yet in history books.. it was the Vietnamese that started the war..

So who gets to choose what is history, in the sense that, what is taught main stream.. because what ever is actually taught within the education system is what will then be excepted as the norm. Couple this with the fact that few care enough to understand and

comprehend the histories they are taught, in one ear and out the other essentially, they take what is given to them, digest it and hold on to bleary basic facts.


This same thing happens to go along with the Celts history, as theirs is not taught in school systems, it is deemed unimportant, that their culture, one of the worlds most distinctly recognizable and far reaching (some 40 million Americans descended, for example). On top of that, any thing that is learned of these peoples, are all post-Christianization of the Celtic populations.

And if you remember your history classes (and actually stayed awake) you will know obviously that few things are taught that put Christianity in a poor light.

Something else masked in mystery is essentially the entire history of Freemasons. And possibly their sibling or parent organization, the Knights Templar.

Before I begin..

It is important to understand this.

Humans have never gained intelligence since the time of our race began. A man born in the year 1,000 BC was just as intelligent as a man born in the year 2007 AD. This is hard to believe, because you see them in the fields, living in huts or small towns, doing simple jobs. They had no cars, they never went to the moon and knew little of biology.

However, I know absolutely no one who can build a massive stone castle without machinery, and I know no one who can grow their own food to survive, and few who could survive without electricity, and I know few who know the most advanced concepts of our time, let alone ancient times. From this perspective, it is clear that the ancient humans where more intelligent then modern Humans! That is not the case of course, we are the same intellectually.. the only thing that has changed is our UNDERSTANDING of our surroundings, and even that is sometimes skewed. An example would be, we now know everything there is to know about biology it seems, and we have drugs for every ailment.. and yet the average age of a Human being has never changed from the earliest days to today. I know many who will disagree, but it’s the truth, many people used to die in work related incidents, and many used to die from disease, but other then that, our life spans are the same, and millions still die from disease. Its natural and healthy for a race.

So when I speak about theories involving men a thousand years ago knowing the world was flat.. and men 3 thousand years ago knowing the star systems so well they could navigate to North America and establish a system of longitude mapping to measure distances and the know how of how to get from one place to the next, making them the most powerful men of their age. When I say this, do not think it is impossible and completely nonsense because men then where not intelligent. Because if you think that, you are only drowning the possibilities limited to you by “education” and what is dictated to you from the history books of another mans own devising.

According to William F. Mann author of a book entitled The Templar Meridians he proposes that Templar Knights under the sail of the Sin Clair family sailed to the United States to establish settlements away from the persecution in Europe..

Now, that sounds hard to believe, but here are some interesting bits of information that are not typically discussed in classrooms and so forth, much like Celt and Viking people making it to the United States and Canada.

In the 1880’s a carving was identified in the town of Westford Massachusetts .. it was long thought to be a carving done by an Indian tribe, resembling a warrior.

Later on, as it was preserved to the best of their ability, another scholar researched the rock, and found conclusive evidence that the weapon in this warriors hand was a sword, something not known of to Indian tribes.. it looks European distinctly, and it was then though to be a Norse sword, and was used as possible evidence of a Viking settlement.

Scholar Frank Glynn went one step further then the fellow who said it was a Norse warrior, he drew out a relief of the rock, and what he found was astonishing.

Once traced over, the “Westford Knight” was not Norse at all.. in fact, it was distinctly Mideviel in resemblance… but what was more then that, the warriors shield actually had a family crest on it!

Mi’Kmaq Indians have a legend of men who came from the East and needed a guide to a location, one such legends details the death of one of the men within the group that they where traveling with, and that it caused the leader great anguish.

The shields crest, it appears to be a Moon, Star, and an Eclipse on the family crest.. putting the crest within the Gunn family clan.

This name is Scottish alright, and it happens to be that a member of the Gunn Clan was actually the top aid to the Sin Clair family within the Knight Templar out of the region of Roslin (Scots Gaelic for “Waterfall cliff”)

Or rose line.


Also fair to add that this engraving is actually right smack ontop of the 72nd parallel to the Greenwich Meridian. A rose line.



It is very difficult to see from a picture, because you have to relief it with pencil and paper now after natural erosion.. the natural lines within the rock where incorporated to the etching of this Templar Knight.

It is proposed by several historians that the Templar Knights who excavated the Temple of Solomon found nothing more then maps..
But that these maps contained a wealth of knowledge, of how to use Longitude mapping.. measuring distances and so forth.. a skill that would have allowed any nation to dominate, because they could use places inaccessible to other nations..

Take a look at this.



This map, called the Piri Re’Is Map, was done in the early 1400’s by a Turk.


The Piri Re'is map was found in 1929 in the Imperial Palace in Constantinople. It is painted on parchment and dated 919 A.H. (in the Islamic calendar), which corresponds to 1513 AD. It is signed by an admiral of the Turkish Navy named Piri Ibn Haji Memmed, also known as Piri Re'is. According to Piri Re'is, the map had been assembled from a set of 20 maps drawn in the time of Alexander the Great.


Piri Re'Is Map

It would appear that this map was not actually visited by its writer.. but put together from several maps.

It is absolutely amazing the level of detail and correctness in the shape of Brazil and so forth, not to mention Antarctica which was not discovered till the 19’th century.

What is further more astonishing is the circles, in the map, with lines protruding.. these are actually Longitude lines, and the circles are degrees of North, such information should not have been possible for such ancient peoples…….


[edit on 5/17/2007 by Rockpuck]



posted on May, 17 2007 @ 04:05 PM
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But when it comes to history, we can only speculate what really happened.. what advances where made and so on.. not exactly reliable. Ancient people time and again confound us with their technology.. they built the Pyramids, they built Stone Heng, so much evidence that said even with out computers and other new technology, what we do today was possible back then.

It is said, in legend, that Solomon and Hiram Abif had to sail for 42 days to reach the destination of their gold supply.

And historic evidence inclines that Solomon had more gold then was even possible given the gold mines in his region, and his control over land.

Some say that Solomon actually new of the New World, and sailed there, mining for gold.. while I think this is very unlikely, only given the amount of time, a mere 42 days, but that he sailed to India, or to South Africa.. each would not have been possible for the King of Judea, given his technology that we know of.. but if he had the ability to use maps, and know of lands so far away, it is possible he could reach regions out of his competitors control or influence, and dominate the trade and imports of metals, like Gold and copper.

If the Templar found this technology, they could have sailed to the New World… which by the time of the Templar had already been found by the Vikings.

Here is what is proposed… and it could answer a lot of questions.

The Templar sailed to the new world. They had their own navy, and their own fleet of commercial trading ships… and get this… they did not sail under a nations flag.. nor did they sail under the Papal flag! .. they where an independent navy… weird? I think so. They did not need to ask for finances, or report taxes, or report their goods, or report their destinations except to them selves.

So, assuming they sail to the New World.. they would have found it entirely undeveloped.. no natural resources being spoiled, all still just right there..

So they mine steel, gold, copper and so on.. and possibly Titanium, which when smelted with steel and other metals, is incredibly strong.. and create a new method of smelting. Their weapons would have been incredibly powerful against mundane European weapons.. and there is no evidence to show where the Templar Knights got their resources.

On the battle field they where the strongest military force yet known to Europe, and only when the development of Damascus Steel did they fall back.

The untapped gold supply of the ancient Appalachian Mountains would have been abundant.. and could explain that so soon after they left Jerusalem did they have an explosion of wealth…..

Soon the Templar Knights had thousands of estates, thousands of castles and the most elite branch of military in all the Christian World.. and on top of that, they held more wealth then many nations, and had established a complex banking system throughout Europe…

I propose this for people to think about, that perhaps this is the secret of the Templar, something they obviously would have guarded jealously and at all cost.. including the Grand Master of the Templar dieing rather then tell a word. The “treasure” was never found.. while I can offer no explanation as to where the wealth of the Templar went, all I can say is how they may have gone about attaining it.

It is most likely that the Templar took their gold and fled to Scotland .. the land was obviously seized, as well as many other things.. Some historians say the Templar then took it back to the New World and tried to establish their own nation there.. I say there is no evidence that they tried to do such a thing, but there is evidence that they founded forts and cities in the New World, one being Arcedia in Novia Scotia. The other being a place called “Green Oaks” in Canada near the Great Lakes region.

Part III coming soon… which I will discuss the beginnings and origins of Freemasonry, related to all of this.



posted on May, 17 2007 @ 04:29 PM
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Originally posted by Rockpuck

Originally posted by uberarcanist
This will be a big shocker but neither the Irish, Scots, or Welsh are Celts! While the Welsh have been speaking Gaelic ever since the first (apparent) Celtic invasion of the British Isles, genetically they are not Celtic and are in fact more closely related to the Basque people.

news.bbc.co.uk...
www.freerepublic.com...

[edit on 17-5-2007 by uberarcanist]


Part II is almost done, nearly finished friends!

To the quoted post.

It is in fact true that no Celtic race exist in this world at the present time, because it has been diluted with other races, mainly Saxxon/Norse/Norman ect.. the closest genetic relitives to the (Irish) people are actually Spanish peoples..

However, a new race can be created rather easily, isolation and no immigration or at least very little, over hundreds of years will create a new "ethnicity" through inbreeding of the same basic genetics.

By the time of 1000AD the Welsh where no longer "Celtic" in genetics, by a long shot actually, they where English and the genetic soup that they are. However, they where Celtic in culture, that survived, and they did speak Gaelic, as they still do, though the English dominated the area through war and so forth, the language was suppressed, but did not die.

Same thing with the Scots, mostly of British decent, genetically they are no longer Celts but their culture and life styles where -- this is what I relate to when I say Celtics, the culture, lifestyle, nationalities and so forth. Ethnic differences offer little advances above others in intelligence, so we must assume the level of knowledge is then sponsored by the peoples who harbor them.

The Irish where the last to officially "die off" in the western lands Celts remained dominate in population for quite a while, at least into 300-400BC and possibly longer, Gaelic surnames are still to this day prevalent in the Gaeltachtaí regions of Ireland.

And as a pure blood Celt may not exist, their genetics where simply mixed in with invaders, immigrants, so on and so forth.. the genetic line was not broken, only altered.

Mmkay back to work!


Yes, this looks to be one memorable post, Rocky. Kudos for your hard work.
I fundamentally agree with your analysis of my observations about Celtic ethnicities, you are right when you say that all the cultures I mentioned are culturally Celtic. There are some things in your Part II that went against my understanding of history and some other disciplines that I'll probably be addressing later, but it's a lot to take in. Thanks, nonetheless.



posted on May, 17 2007 @ 05:02 PM
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Originally posted by Rockpuck
...they where English and the genetic soup that they are.


and hallowed be our name. Vive la difference, I love being English and British precisely for our mongrol breeding, it says a lot about us. We are still very tribal. To me the only criteria for claiming to be British is the inability to read the words of Jerusalem without at least misting up. (Stick a welsh male voice choir in there and I'm a blubbing wreck).

The British reserve the right to fight over our differences. Physically, verbally and politically. This is why modern life has not taken so well with some of us.

Sorry off the topic, but I had a rare outpouring of nationalism there. Its passed. I will read on.



posted on May, 17 2007 @ 05:08 PM
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There is a lot of speculation, that the Templars indeed knew of North America.
There are Templar stories that they used a star to navigate the waters of the Atlantic.
That star was called "Merica".
They used that star as a beacon to cross the Atlantic and make port on the east coast of North America.
They called this land America, or the Land of the Star Merica.

The notion that it was named America after Amerigo Vaspucci is so incredibly wrong, but it is accepted and taught in schools even to this day.

I have also heard that when North America started to become settled, there was some outrage because the Christians coming over found many old Templar ports rich with Templar markings and symbols.

There is also a story that the legendary Templar treasure was brought to North America, split up and hidden all over the land in small pockets, as it would be too difficult to hide all at once and too much for any one group to effectively control.





posted on May, 17 2007 @ 05:33 PM
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Alright, probably a lot of thunder-stealing but here goes.

La Merika=Venus www.answers.com...
Pentacle comes from Venusian transit www.mikecrowson.co.uk...
All cultures and freemasonry come from Atlantis; Atlanteans traveled whole world and this explains Piri Reis map and how KTs knew about America; Many other pieces of evidence back up the preceeding theses.

www.sacred-texts.com...
www.kult-ur-institut.de...


[edit on 17-5-2007 by uberarcanist]

[edit on 17-5-2007 by uberarcanist]



posted on May, 17 2007 @ 05:59 PM
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Great story Rockpuck. Lots of holes and assumptions but probably contains more truth than 99% of theories I read on here.



posted on May, 17 2007 @ 08:58 PM
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Wu Kung



There are Templar stories that they used a star to navigate the waters of the Atlantic.
That star was called "Merica".


Actually.. evidence says the Templar Knights could have "found out" the star from another source.. in part III which won't be done till tomorrow because I am way to busy this week, I am going to show ya'll some cool sites found in North America, from Florida to Canada that are separated by exactly 1hr (15 degrees) and happen to be Celtic circles.. astronomy tools for calculating Eclipses (which may be how the ancient people determined the degrees of the Earth) and they seem to also point out a specific star, most likely the star used to get there in the first which may have been the same used by many other cultures.

And I honestly do not want to make it seem like im a huge fan of all things Celtic! Although I am of course..

Celts just happen to be my focus of study, and through them and many sources from various books and so on (I prefer books to internet) I am researching Masonry, because I happen to see many Gaelic connections, along with many others, and I think the Gaelic connections may be hiding part of our past.)

There is evidence Egyptians made to the Mississippi Valley, and along much of South America, extensively, (Lets be honest, from Africa to Brazil honestly is not hat far) some 4,000 years ago!



They called this land America, or the Land of the Star Merica.


I have read several passages about this, but I could not come up with enough decisive information to come to any major conclusion. Though I agree absolutely 100% it was not after Amerigo (as I listed above, its not possible because thats his first name, a title worthy only for Royalty)

And yet our children are taught this. Why change the past to the truth when the lies make everything so simple.




There is also a story that the legendary Templar treasure was brought to North America, split up and hidden all over the land in small pockets, as it would be too difficult to hide all at once and too much for any one group to effectively control.


Of one book I am currently reading, the author's main thesis is this.. I just don't see it because the Templar where still ingrained within Europe, especially the British Isles, and around the start of Masonry, which evidence says most likely started WHILE Templar Knights where still operational.

Uberarcanis



All cultures and freemasonry come from Atlantis; Atlanteans traveled whole world and this explains Piri Reis map


Eh, possibly. The map is most likely explained by the travels of the Egyptian empire..

Their trade was very extensive.. and there is obvious evidence that Mayan, Aztec, and those before them, use both Symbols and architecture (pyramids) that are the exact same, or nearly the same, as Egyptians and other early civilizations.

Egypt for the most part, was not a militaristic empire, they where spiritual and economic, and while in several periods of their existent did they have the best military, but for the most part, they actually did not. I think it may be possible that they used resources from all over the world, including Brazil and so forth, to bring in exotic plants, fruits, crops, jewels and spices ect.

But thats just one speculation, maybe there was a Atlantis, I have no clue.

RWPBR



Lots of holes and assumptions but probably contains more truth than 99% of theories I read on here.


Tons of holes, because the truth is lost in time, and the evidence often long eroded, and the powers that be (mostly Christians) may have worked hard to remove them.

And it is of course 100% assumption, and no truth, because a truth would be impossible, a theory would be possible, but the evidence only allows a current hypothesis.



posted on May, 17 2007 @ 09:21 PM
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Well said young Brother.
Just keep in mind, that it is entirely possible that the Phoenicians (or a splinter culture thereof) could have, and very well may have a boat-building technology and seafaring skills that could have allowed them to traverse the ocean and brought them to both North and South America.

But all in all, you make some very good points.

I can't wait until part III.
Same Bat time, same Bat channel?

Young Brother, I look forward to viewing the fruits of your research, whether or not I agree, you are still very, very good at what you do.
Kudos!






posted on May, 17 2007 @ 11:02 PM
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I feel that I overstated my Atlantis hypothesis, claiming it to be a fact (I believe that it is probably true but can't prove it, yet), when it is a hypothesis, albeit a strong one.



posted on May, 17 2007 @ 11:27 PM
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I fail to see the love of our current elites and freemasons for all people celtic though. I mean they raped Ireland on several occasions did they not? Even to this day they turn against their celtic brothers in the pursuit of money and power by putting the immigrant in place of struggle with him for their own selfish gain.

Kolomvous was Jewish also.





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