Originally posted by spines

Originally posted by Azathoth
If you want to blame anyone for taking your freedoms away then blame the terrorists.

Actually, if I want to blame anyone for the loss of my privacy and freedoms I should be blaming the politicians who allow these actions to pass and, more importantly, the large majority who sits idle and accepts these gradual steps with a smile.

Hallelujah Spines! I could not agree more. Kudos

Originally posted by spines

Originally posted by Azathoth
If you want to blame anyone for taking your freedoms away then blame the terrorists.

We, as a country, are terrified. It is in this vonurable and scared state that statements like yours are the unfortunate norm.

And as long we remain afraid, the terrorists(and/or the Government) have won.

[edit on 5/14/2007 by Alien42]

After reading what everyone else is saying I'll make an addition to what I said before.

There is a big problem with this. It is a problem there is no ready solution too. That problem is people abusing this power and they will abuse it. This forms kind of a loop. Even if this were not legal those who don't care about the law would snoop anyway. We cant completely take away law enforcement power or the bad guys will advantage the weakness and we would all suffer. Of course we could just stop using the Internet.

The problem with these complaints and fears is that nobody ever offers another alternative. How could the authorities deal with people who harm children or steal music or steal movies or hack other peoples systems? You have to do more than complain. You have to have a better answer or complaining is just so much whining. How do we protect ourselves from Child Predators for instance? They just arrested one that lived in a trailer in the alley behind my office. He had three computers and many Internet accounts. How could they have caught him otherwise? He would still be there and eventually some child would have been hurt. I don't have the answer. Does anyone else?

I keep hearing every other day about another insane law being passed. I'm trying to compile a list but google is being kinda silly. Does anyone know of a site that has already done this? I'm sorry if this sounds like a stupid question. I'm just curious.

Originally posted by racerzeke
I'm really worried about the bit-torrent thing also, and also-would a petition do any good anyways?

Yes a petition DOES do good... with enough signatures and presented to your congressman...

We recently stopped them from drilling for oil in the Arctic Refugee with petitions a cause supported by Robert Redford and Senator Harry Reed of Nevada and others..

Send letters to your representatives... find out which ones are opposed to this a s much as we are...

Voicing your opinion on a petition is STILL a safe method of protest... and certainly a first step before breaking into those gun lockers...

Originally posted by spinesThis attitude of 'it will catch the bad guys...only the bad guys will have to worry'

Back in Canada we have strict gun laws...making it almost impossible for Canadian citizens to carry hand guns...

The end result is that only the criminals have guns, and usually better ones that the cops, because what do they care about breaking another law?

I don't see how this will stop the bad guys... they will just find away around it, like using the wireless that was discussed here earlier to remain anonymous.

Question: In order to do any kind of search, don't you need probable cause under the 4th amendment? You can't go into someone's house for example and search for drugs because you feel like it, doesn't this apply to the internet?

Another interesting story I read was about a guy who got his house busted by the cops for drug possession. They scanned his computer and found pedophilia, and he got changed for that too. But what I don't get, is how drug possession allows authorities to search your computer for porn. (??) Couldn't he argue that his 4th amendment rights were broken and have the charge dismissed?

[edit on 14-5-2007 by ghaleon12]

If you have a Mac or a Web Cam, be sure and turn it off before abusing yourself at your keyboard. They'll be able to spy at you through the lens and look down and see if one hand is not above board.

Splines,

I don't smile about added security. I frown, I get mad. It like the warning on products you buy. If it wasn't for some idiot that used it the wrong way, there would of never been a problem. But there are idiots, tons of them and your never going to get rid of all of them. Remember pill bottles that weren't child proof? Virtually everything you buy has a warning on it. I agree on this, if the whole world had common sense then I'd see the problem with it. But the cold hard fact is it doesn't. That mean if it can be exploited, it will be. Until I see some proof on how this is going to be the bane of everyone, I'm going to agree with the lawman who wants to take out the red tape and bs to protect us. You know not all of the law is corrupt, and a few friends of mine may hopefully get the tools they need to work without labrynth of political BS to weave through.

-Aza

Originally posted by ghaleon12
Another interesting story I read was about a guy who got his house busted by the cops for drug possession. They scanned his computer and found pedophilia, and he got changed for that too. But what I don't get, is how drug possession allows authorities to search your computer for porn. (??) Couldn't he argue that his 4th amendment rights were broken and have the charge dismissed?

[edit on 14-5-2007 by ghaleon12]

More than likely the computer was within the scope of the warrant, which means that if they stumble across evidence there its fair game. The scope defines what you are looking for and therefore if you are looking somewhere that doesn't pertain to the evidence you seek then whatever you might find becomes inadmissible in court. Or at least thats how it was explained in my government class way back in the days of HS, I suspect modern day warrants are written in such a way that makes everything fair game to search.

Originally posted by Lexion
And, since I do nothing illegal on the internet, I should be worried ?

Why ?

Pondering,
Lex

Legal or not, it still provides the foundation for profiling, which is inherintly discrimatory, regardless of it's motive.

Originally posted by Leyla
This is scary guys. Everything you do and say will be monitored online.

Incorrect. Everything you do and say CAN be monitored online. Read the entire article if you haven't. The same laws apply to the telephone, they're expanding it to cover the internet as well. Besides, this nation is a lot of people. These laws may make it easier for the FBI to monitor activity through a specific IP, but they don't put more agents to work doing it. The manpower is the same.

It's all in an effort to curb terrorism, and whether this is a good thing or a bad thing rests in the hands of those in power. Sometimes those in power are of good intentions, and sometimes they're not.

Besides, i'm still angry over the patriot act. We're giving up our freedom now to save us from terrorism now. And when terrorism is defeated (however that may be), it's not like they're going to give our freedom back. I don't like the idea of permenant sacrifices to solve temporary problems. These compromises, ultimately, will leave the citizen with nothing.

This is old news. The FBI has had this capability for years vis-a-vis black rooms and ECHELON. It's worthless to have "Godlike" surveillance capabilities when it's impossible to sift thru all the collected data.

Oh, ok. I'm from England, so if those a******s want to moniter me, then fine. Idiots. Do people think that the FBI are the word police FFS! I'm so angry at the moronity, lol. I am pretty mad though. FBI...... SMB. It would be illegal for them to monitor a non US resident no? Not that I am doing anything wrong.

Man this makes the Patriot Act seem warm and Fuzzy.

To all you police-state-loving people who claim that anyone who inst a criminal has nothing to worry about: you are COMPLETELEY WRONG!

This all-access pass to your internet search history, emails, downloads, and website history will be an overwhelming amount of data for the already understaffed FBI to analyze. The FBI will create and fine-tune profiles of suspicious individuals for computers to search for to make their job easier.

Just like people with the same name as someone on the FBI watch list getting hassled at the airports, this will cause innocent people to be targeted. These targeted individuals will likely include EVERYBODY ON ATS and other related conspiracy sites. Anyone questioning the government or talking about specifically flagged subjects such as 9-11 and terrorism will be recorded, watched, and labeled a dissenter or terrorist. All of our personal FBI files are going to get much fatter in the days to come whether you are a criminal or not, innocent or not. We are just unruly sheep to them and they are the wolves.


[edit on (5/14/07) by AllSeeingI]

Haha, that's why we have the CIA, Xeros, to break international laws and to stick our noses in others' business...internationally. FBI is domestic and CIA is foreign.

But seriously.

No human has the technology to monitor the Internet the way FBI would have you believe they can. There's just too much information out there. Notice I wrote "no human". Although it's probably true that an ET could analyze all the information floating about in cyberspace, do you really think it would give a damn?

Originally posted by AllSeeingI
Man this makes the Patriot Act seem warm and Fuzzy.

To all you police-state-loving people who claim that anyone who inst a criminal has nothing to worry about: you are COMPLETELEY WRONG!

This all-access pass to your internet search history, emails, downloads, and website history will be an overwhelming amount of data for the already understaffed FBI to analyze. The FBI will create and fine-tune profiles of suspicious individuals for computers to search for to make their job easier.

Just like people with the same name as someone on the FBI watch list getting hassled at the airports, this will cause innocent people to be targeted. These targeted individuals will likely include EVERYBODY ON ATS and other related conspiracy sites. Anyone questioning the government or talking about specifically flagged subjects such as 9-11 and terrorism will be recorded, watched, and labeled a dissenter or terrorist. All of our personal FBI files are going to get much fatter in the days to come whether you are a criminal or not, innocent or not. We are just unruly sheep to them and they are the wolves.


[edit on (5/14/07) by AllSeeingI]

Don't get all excited, it's all going to get rolled back when Bush is gone.

Just wondering, is this going to affect us canadians? I'd rather not be watched by the FBI. Im assuming since its FBI, that we wont be affected. Hey, you never know. Anyone got any info for me?