From what I understand of this, this will actually help catch criminals. Rather then waiting a long period of steadly trying to catch them in the act, they can monitor alot easier now. I believe this will cut down the use of internet from pediphiles trying to get a grip on some kid in a chat room. like someone has already stated in this post, the internet was originally developed by the military. Then it went to universities and then mainstream. So the government has been in it all along. The only difference is now instead of having to jump through hoops and red tape, they've made the process easier. A warrent for an arrest is still needed but at least they won't have any problems getting the evidence. I wonder how drastic this will cut amber alerts, school shootings,and other miscellaneous problems.

-Aza

Originally posted by zorgon
Its not a question about doing anything illegal... You can be performing a search for something perfectly innocent and end up linked to a site that ISN'T innocent... By the time you realize this isn't what you were looking for, its TOO LATE because THEY already have your IP address visiting the site...

Just to add, it is also a matter of associating certain types of actions with illegal activity.

If I use a bit-torrent to leech and then seed an update for a computer game (which is perfectly legal and is just an alternate way of going about it) then they can see that type of connection and instantly go "oh, a torrent-connection; and he is seeding the content too?! this man must be distributing illegal music and/or movie files".

My defense of "just look at what I am leeching/seeding" will not and does not matter...all that must be seen is a torrent-connection --especially a seed-- and instantly I have done something wrong in concept.

This can be easily abused and used as a door step into the area of privacy which should be monitored for 'criminal/terrorist' actions. We would give away our homes at the threat of terrorism.

"Any man that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both."

A quote I'm sure many of you are familiar with. Who first wrote it? Search yourselves.

I'm completely shocked with many of the responses. It makes me a little sick to know so many people feel so helpless and so unable to affect change in their immediate society. I would kill for my privacy, and freedom if it were taken by any governing body. When this happens, there are no rules...

I'd like to tell you all to remember the ideals of the French Revolution as well, 1789. We are the government. Remember that we, the people who seek liberty and prosperity by our own means, left no tyrant behind. They were slaughtered, as they did to our freedom.

History has taught us that any positive change in government has occurred by means of physical force by those concerned revolutionaries.


[edit on 14-5-2007 by cognoscente]

You're not the only one who is trying to tell people that its not too late to fight back against all this. Truth is that there aren't many of us. Too many people are willing...yes, willing...to just give up.

I'm really worried about the bit-torrent thing also, and also-would a petition do any good anyways?

Originally posted by Azathoth
From what I understand of this, this will actually help catch criminals. Rather then waiting a long period of steadly trying to catch them in the act, they can monitor alot easier now.

If they suspect an individual they can already walk into the company and ask for the logs...it would be given with little to no fight.

Originally posted by Azathoth
I believe this will cut down the use of internet from pediphiles trying to get a grip on some kid in a chat room.

Hmm, then I suppose we should allow our parks and backyards to also be monitored. Children are abducted in those places more then anywhere else after all.

There is already a system of baiting/catching pedophiles within chatrooms. It needs to be expanded why? Do pedophiles really 'hang out' in my everyday surfing of the net?

Originally posted by Azathoth
like someone has already stated in this post, the internet was originally developed by the military. Then it went to universities and then mainstream. So the government has been in it all along. The only difference is now instead of having to jump through hoops and red tape, they've made the process easier.

Those 'hoops' and that 'redtape' is there for a reason. The legitimacy of the monitoring participated in a nd the logs requested must be established before personal and private information is either retrieved or leaked elsewhere.

Originally posted by Azathoth
A warrent for an arrest is still needed but at least they won't have any problems getting the evidence. I wonder how drastic this will cut amber alerts, school shootings,and other miscellaneous problems.

Ah, with no offense to the poster: It is this type of attitude that allows for further invasions of privacy. There never is a problem getting the 'evidence'. The 'evidence' is not located in my online financial dealings. The 'evidence' is not located in my web surfing. If it is believed that the evidence is there...then go through the proper channels, do not simply circumvent them.

No offense intended towards the poster: This attitude of 'it will catch the bad guys...only the bad guys will have to worry' is what we will ride into an age of non-privacy. The few that see these actions for the crap that they are will, and are, drowned out by the majority. The majority who hears 'pedophile, criminal and terrorist' and lovingly gives away their privacy with a smile.

What we give away in fear we will not get back.

Ya I found this topic by accident, first I heard of it happening, nothing on the news or networks. Huge invasion of privacy, everyone should call there local news networks and raise hell why they have not covered this. But of course it’s probably some kind of mutual understanding with the FBI not to talk about it right.

“We the people” are the targets! Unreal!

Thank you Alien42. I will definately be checking that link out. We The People need to kick this ball back in the right direction. We are getting thrown into the same position we were in before the American Revolution. Our fore-fathers revolted due to suppressing laws. Well fellow Americans, you can see it happening again these days. Rights are being stripped almost on a daily basis. We must change this or die trying!!!

Incredible news. Would you like if someone opened your private mail (not an email but do you remember the piece of paper you used to send a few years ago)?

I love this verse from the Bible. I think it fits well with all that is going on as of late:

1 Thessalonians 5:3 (New International Version)

While people are saying, "Peace and safety," destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape.

Originally posted by piacenza
Incredible news. Would you like if someone opened your private mail (not an email but do you remember the piece of paper you used to send a few years ago)?

Funny you should say so. Recently it was made legal for the preident to open and read any mail that they feel needs to be.

Once again it was passed with the word 'terrorist' strewn about the official explination.

If you want to blame anyone for taking your freedoms away then blame the terrorists. They believe in no freedom. Why else would they target anyone and everyone with no care for who gets hurt? Whats winning is terror because unless we go their route and start to not care about anything, we will ALWAYS be the victim. What do they care about? Surely not their own people or innocents. What will it take to stop them? There is nothing that will stop them. There will always be uprising of soem kind. Some leader that thinks, what they think should be law. That some people are more deserving then others. There is only one thing here that is right. Thats the planet itself. I'm not one for dancing out in the trees and chanting hippie nonsense, but the world is getting ready for spring cleaning. And when the dust finally settles maybe then this planet can relax and enjoy her "golden" years.

-Aza

[edit on 14-5-2007 by Azathoth]

[edit on 14-5-2007 by Azathoth]

Did some poking around for data on the Narus InSight systems and it seems that the number I'm seeing for max bandwidth it can handle is about 10 Gbps and I'm going to assume thats just for on physical device. OC-192 lines are the most common form of connection for internet backbone sites. I wouldn't put it out of the realm of possibility for a handful of Narus boxes placed at just the right location to pull traffic from a very substantial number of internet users in the US as well as traffic originating from outside the US that is destined for US-hosted servers.

As for potential abuse of this one of the best things I can think of is corporate espionage. Imagine for a moment that I'm a software developer working with a small group to produce some new application that will revolutionize the internet and put huge companies profit margins at risk. Now add to that fact there is a bored technician at the helm of such a monitoring station who suddenly sees my nightly CVS update going out, decides to look closer at my traffic and captures my authentication credentials and proceeds to pilfer all my hard work and code. He runs to a competitor and sells them the code for an obscene amount. I now have been ripped off basically, with no real idea of how my code was stolen or how it made it into the hands of a rival.

The central problem with this whole concept of internet snooping is that at the end of the day its humans with the keys to the kingdom, and that is what scares me. We like to think that people are by default good and become corrupt over time, but how many of you would trust yourselves not to aim such a powerful system at neighbors who steal your paper in the morning, that co-worker who screwed you out of a promotion that you deserved, that ex of yours who took half of everything you owned, or the guys who are designing the next killer application? Profit and power are evil temptresses and I would be willing to bet few members of ATS could resist the urge to know what others are doing online at any given moment.

Originally posted by Blaine91555
This should not be cause for concern to law abiding people.

They need a warrant to use this so no worries except for the criminal or terrorist types.

Havent you been watching, theyve already shown they dont know how to follow the rule of law with the patriot and warrentless wiretaps.
Why are they even getting this new power. oh yeah, they run they corrupt system thats why. It's no suprise either, theyve been doing it already, now its just all legal like. Also they use this to scare away people that relize just how its going to be used, to limit what and how you see world events. they dont like that people can talk and news spreads in a minute. hard to control that. but tell the people thats its now monitored by the FBI, theyve passed so many laws in the past 6 years that the average joe cant keep up with them. Theyve already proven that they will arrest you just for registering to vote twice in an honest mistake. So now even you non lawbreakers have to worry about maybe being redirected to a website that is on the "LIST" and now they come into your world with all their new laws and high tech eavsdropping and video gear. you gonna like that ?
Thiers will be No Discretion, please do not delude yourself of that.

One positve overall- Reasonable Doubt! think about it.

What about E-Mail? Is E-Mail getting monitered? This entire thing is total B.S.

Go ahead and tatoo barcodes on the back of out necks and make it easier on all of us.

Originally posted by Azathoth
If you want to blame anyone for taking your freedoms away then blame the terrorists.

Actually, if I want to blame anyone for the loss of my privacy and freedoms I should be blaming the politicians who allow these actions to pass and, more importantly, the large majority who sits idle and accepts these gradual steps with a smile.

No matter how I attempt to make my voice heard there is a majority who is afraid and scared. "It is for our own good", ha. They hear the word 'terrorist' and gladly give away their privacy.

We, as a country, are terrified. It is in this vonurable and scared state that statements like yours are the unfortunate norm.

Those who say they do nothing illegal and have nothing to worry about and could care less should care a little bit more. Considering this is just a step towards invading more of our freedoms. Will you say I should care why when the want to watch every aspect of your day or listen to every word of your private phone calls? How about when they start labeling us dangerous for taking part in discussions such as this one? Will you care or be worried then?

You do remember we are talking about the very government that lies to us at every chance and loves to spy on public citzens. Its good to know so many people could care less about their rights. There are a few countries out there that would love to meet your exepectaions of 0 freedom, move there.

Curious,
Anathema

P.S Anyone else who is at the vey least questioning the governments right to do this... well good for you and keep it up cause we need you to counter those who wuld just invite this practice with open arms.

[edit on 5/14/2007 by anathema777]

I dont support it, in fact i despise it but to be honest weve been under surveillance for a long time. Carnivore, Echelon and the other one, I think it was called green lantern and probably many others that we dont know about.

Originally posted by spinesIt is true, they will not have a staff watching every single transaction/communication/action on the net.

Yes that IS true... but they don't need to

When you search for a term on your home PC say with google... how long does it take to get thousands of hits? Mere seconds...

All THEY need to do is use their super high tech computer networks to high speed scan all internet activity and search for KEYWORDS or phrases...

And if you read most of the posts at ATS they are ripe with anti government conspiracy chatter... bet that will set off bells and whistles at NSA headquarters

So if you were inclined to compare a certain modern president say with a certain German organization, that might be treason, but at the very least brand you a dissident



So they won't come kick in your door... but you can be sure you will be on a list... then one day when for some reason (like a staged war with China) we declare Marshall law... they will have a nice list to round up for private chats..

[edit on 14-5-2007 by zorgon]

[edit on 14-5-2007 by zorgon]