benefits of religion?

i've been kicking around a few questions in my head for a while and haven't been able to come up with any answers.

What good has religion done for the world that secular institutions would be unable to provide?

Has religion in its long carreer provided more good for the world than science?

I think religion served some purposes in primitive societies. 1) People with common beliefs tend to bond into communities and work together. 2) The threat of punishment in the afterlife helped keep the community members honest. 3) Having a moral code accepted by everyone in the community helps it function more efficiently. 4) Keeping the history of the group and teaching it to the children could help them avoid the mistakes of their ancestors.

Unfortunately, any religion quickly becomes toxic because power hungry and/or vicious people take over the priesthood. Then it is used as a weapon to control the people and change them from independent, free citizens who could search for their own facets of truth into mental slaves who followed authority blindly.

In the very beginnings of civilization I don't think secular organizations could substitute, but as soon as the society became larger and more structured, religion got in the way, and secular rules would have been much more efficient and humane.

Since the Renaissance science has given humanity a huge number of benefits. Religion, however, has built into it the common goal of most organizations - to survive and grow. It has managed to hang on and hurt the advancement of humanity for far too long. A tool it has used for many years is blocking education of the masses. This is happening in much of the world right now. In the U.S. the technique is to de-fund education so children are given far lower quality training, and only the more affluent can receive a good college education.

Occam

Not to mention blocking access to birth control and abortion (which, my Christian friends, is not something that the vast majority of women take lightly. I've had two and they have been horrible experiences but necessary for the time in my life or the circumstances).

Religion is dogmatic, and we are not dogs. We are people who have free will and should know how to use it.

For myself, with certain exceptions, I find religion to be divisive, exclusive, judgmental and power-hungry.

I think that a belief in a god-figure is a way to deal with the fear of the unknown, namely death. As well as the reasons Occam listed, naturally.

There is just too much contradiction and irrationality in religions of any kind for me to be comfortable with trying to belong to them.

So, are you saying I (being a follower of Christ) have a fear of Death?

If in fact you are then why, ( now im goin to use the Bible but, hear me out before you answer back) does it say we should only FEAR the Lord our God, and not FEAR Death AND the Lord your God?

What if, there is a God and The Bible is true how would you then answer the question I just asked?

Actually, even though the societies back then did not appreciate women the Bible does... you may ask where or, you may not care but, just read Proverbs 31:10-31

Im not telling you, you have to believe im just telling you to look at in another view and just read, read they way you would any other book.

Originally posted by followerofchrist
Actually, even though the societies back then did not appreciate women the Bible does... you may ask where or, you may not care but, just read Proverbs 31:10-31

except for the parts of the bible where it condones SELLING your daughters into slavery... i mean marriage. well, back then marriage was slavery for a woman.

Im not telling you, you have to believe im just telling you to look at in another view and just read, read they way you would any other book.

i read the bible like i would read other books, and it contradicts itself is so many places. you may be able to conjure up 1 passage in which women aren't treated in a misogynistic fashion, but it's mostly anti-women.

Originally posted by followerofchrist

Im not telling you, you have to believe im just telling you to look at in another view and just read, read they way you would any other book.

Why do believers assume I am not familiar with their holy book? I've read it. It does not spin my wheels the way it does yours. I don't like to read any really old writings, I like a story to carry me along and take me to another world. The bible, Chaucer, Paradise Lost, etc. are all old and hold no interest for me.

And not only have I read it, I read it at several times in my life when I was looking for a god or something to believe in. And I still didn't find it convincing.

I guess I'm just too rational to be able to make that "leap of faith."

Originally posted by followerofchrist
... does it say we should only FEAR the Lord our God, and not FEAR Death AND the Lord your God?

Does it make sense for Jesus to die on the Cross if death is not to be feared? Jesus experienced nothing significant on the Cross, being that He is supposedly immortal, is supposedly not dead now, and never really gave up anything out of the total that is His.

Now the statement from Jesus (as a man) on the cross said "it is finished" comes to mind. He gave his life up, not tring to cling to it like you would if you had fear of it.

The significance is, is that we can ask for forgiveness now through Jesus. No longer do we have to make Burnt offerings holy and pleasing to the Lord, no longer do we have to make animal sacrifices to forgive sins.

You know being Born Again does not mean you enter the womb again. It means you sart off on a clean slate again, so with that in mind, when you said he is supposed to be immortal and is not dead. God came down in the form of a man (Jesus) and went about the world. Now God cant die so at passover if you read carefully he does not drink from His cup but from theirs (the meaning of this is so that he could be that mediator that he is today in between us and God) so from that point on we could say Jesus was just another person and in that sense he died. His flesh had to die so that He could live in heaven (which is like being born again) I hope this is not confusing.

God bless

Followerofchrist, I have to say your the only christian I like on this site for the simple reason your not over zealosly trying to convert everything that moves or so convinced that humanity can only be saved through your god and your god alone. For that I apluade you .

Originally posted by followerofchrist

You know being Born Again does not mean you enter the womb again.

But the Hindus believe that it does. How can one god be proved to be right and all other gods (or belief systems) be proven wrong?

It's all just BELIEF.

Even two people who go to the same church and sit next to one another in the same pew are going to see their common god through different eyes. Because it is a matter of belief and not substance.

I can't prove my disbelief, Christians can't prove their belief. The difference is that rationality and critical thinking support the belief that there is no god. When critical thinking is applied to religion, religion does not stand up to the scrutiny.

Thank you there was a time when I was like that, which was when I was born again. It took me a long time in prayer and everything to realize that if you come off very zealous then you wont catch anybody. You "run them off" so to speak

And I appreciate that too, FoC. Your ability to debate with us unbelievers without resorting to nastiness is much appreciated.

Yes people are going to see it differently. IF you believe the God I believe all you woud have to do is sit down and ask him "reveal your word to me"
and God would then reveal His word to you in a way that may be different than how he has revealed it to me.

But, you would have to leave all you know behind you, all you came to know by yourself, you would have to put that aside.

To answer your post on Hindus to the best of my ability would be Faith, without doubting.

so... can we get back to the benefits of religion? so it helped keep primitve society together... that makes sense. but what else has it done?

I guess in the most simpilist of terms to put it is the benefits of religion is knowing there is a God and, who loves us, would do anything for us.

It helped unite the nation during 9/11 (remember republicans and democrates were as one)

Originally posted by followerofchrist
I guess in the most simpilist of terms to put it is the benefits of religion is knowing there is a God and, who loves us, would do anything for us.

i'm talking about a worldly benefit, one outside of the actual religion.

It helped unite the nation during 9/11 (remember republicans and democrates were as one)

religion CAUSED 9/11....

I agree to a point. Religion also helped our nation get founded. (however you chose to believe it whether masons or christians) Religion is the only thing they have in some parts of China where christians are getting persecuted. Religion helped us grow up

God bless

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
i'm talking about a worldly benefit, one outside of the actual religion.

What has science done outside things of this universe?

Doesn't sound like a fair question does it, though it's as fair as your question isn't it.

If we Christians can't answer your question with things of God and salvation then we are left with feeding the poor, giving people earthly peace, teaching how to forgive....etc.

The real deal with Christianity is that it leads people to the Lord and his word. From there they can find their salvation and everlasting life through their acceptance and belief that Jesus died for our sins and rose 3 days later paying the price for us...kinda important yes.

Thank you kinglizard for saying what I was not able to put into words.

That does seem like a pretty tough question though, "What has science done outside the universe?"

God bless

I guess that question capsulizes the difference. I have no evidence that anything outside our universe exists, and even if it does, I have no evidence of it having ANY effect on anything that happens within the physical universe.

So, if I can't see that some concept effects my behavior or the functioning of the world around me, I cannot justify including it in my dealings with myself and my world.

Occam