Parental responsibility

Yet again the sad story unfolds of a young child that has been kidnapped. I'm refering to the parents who whilst on holiday in Portugal left their 3 year old daughter alone whilst they went out for a meal. They said they returned every hour to check their child and were less the 100 metres away.

Well lets look at this logically, your in a foreign country, your child is 3 years old, she is left on her own, the parents go out in the evening for a meal and check on the child every Hour.

Am I missing something here, who in their right minds leaves a child of that age whilst they go out for a meal. Oh so the meal was more important than the safety of that which should of been most precious to them. That these selfish cold hearted people left their child in a strange place and on her own.

Well its time that such parents are made to face up to their responsibilities for their neglect. Rather than the sympathy vote and Oh it must be terrible for you, how about the child, it dose not bear thinking about what she could be going through.

I want these people charged with wilful neglect, child abuse or whatever we can do in law to them. Its high time that parents faced the music in these cases rather than being treated as the victims they should be treated like the criminals they are.

This child was abducted due to the parents neglect and for no other reason other than wanting to spend time on their own. Well if you want to spend time on your own DONT HAVE CHILDREN, their not a car, or a house or a holiday, they are the most precious and important thing in your life.

I really hope that they find the little girl alive and well, she should not be returned to her parents as they have proved to be unfit to look after her, in placing their own selfish needs over the safety of their little girl.

People are aware that the parents in this case made a terrible mistake, but until the child is found or enough time passes to give people the idea that the child will not be found, the focus will remain on finding the child and not culpability.

There will be plenty of time for that and you can rest assured that if harm comes to the child, the parents will probably face penalties, depending on the laws in their jurisdiction.

You may remember the incident in which Michael Jackson held his child over a balcony in Germany, but was not prosecuted for child endangerment because of the jurisdictional issues involved.

[edit on 2007/5/13 by GradyPhilpott]

Regardless of the outcome,

Those "Parents" (Using the term loosely) should NEVER again have a child under their care...

This is irresponsible to an extreme level..

Semper

Originally posted by magicmushroom

Am I missing something here, who in their right minds leaves a child of that age whilst they go out for a meal.

Parents of children who are easy targets to child predators
I cannot believe in this day and age of such potential atrocities committed against children that people can still be so ignorant.

Well if you want to spend time on your own DONT HAVE CHILDREN, their not a car, or a house or a holiday, they are the most precious and important thing in your life.

I could not agree more. I take parenting very seriously, to the point of still debating on having my own children. I don't like the world as it is right now enough to bring an innocent soul into it.
Though I'd be a helluva better parent than these idiots - that's for sure.

Firstly I want this to be clear. I hope beyond all hope that little Maddie is found alive and safe.

Secondly the people that took her need to be made a huge example of in some way. Invoving huge amounts of pain. Death is too good for these monsters.

Magic - I agree, but ease off a touch. The parents need to be given a public dressing down, but no more than that. I cannot imagine what they are going through, the feelings of guilt must be tremendous. They will never recover 100% from this, it will always be there.

If they can be used as an example to improve parenting all over the world, then maybe some good can come from this.

Despite their half-hourly checks on her as she slept, Madeleine McCann went missing from her parents’ rented holiday apartment in the Algarve on Thursday night as they ate tapas only 50 yards away

source

I emphasised the 'only 50 yards away' and then wanted to get an idea of the distance. This picture gives you an idea of the distance:



For me, that distance would equate to me gardening out the front of my home whilst my children were having their afternoon kip. Would I be negligent if someone came in through the back door and abducted one of my kids? Obviously, by the views expressed here, I would.

The family was on holiday with a group of nine adults and eight children.

source

Were they having a meal with the other parents? I wonder if the other parents chose to do the same thing?

Seems to me, they rejected the child minding facilities and as a parent, myself, I would do the same. I would not leave my kids with anyone I didn't know and I don't care if it is a holiday resort or even if its accredited. Would that mean I would leave my kids asleep in a room and go off for a feed? No, I would eat in.

Being a parent is not easy and this would be anyone's worst nightmare. There have been numerous abductions and sexual assaults on children whilst their parents slept in the family home.

I don't think this incident warrants hostility to the parents... it does however, show how opportunistic criminals are. I believe the child is still alive and I also believe that a staff member of the resort knows of the child's whereabouts. Quite simply, someone must have known the parents were dining without their kids and the fact that they were on their own.

As for neglect, well I am just fortunate that some of my experiences as a parent did not end in tragedy.

for eg, my Son, at the age of 2 decided to unlock the back door (child proof lock) and go out the backyard to play. My husband was in the shed working and I was in the laundry. Now, thankfully, I noticed that I couldnt hear my Son and went to see what he was up to. I went out the back and called out to my hubby, was he with him. NO... I checked the play area/cubby house. Not there. I started to freak and then heard a sound from above. I looked over to where the boat was and there he was. He had moved a chair and climbed onto the boat. He was standing on the edge of the boat holding a fishing knife. It was at the narrow part of the boat. I was just like... 'dont move!'...and climbed up and got him down. Now that could have been absolutely tragic. He could have fallen and we would have had to live with that. Luckily it didnt. So much for child proof locks! You need eyes in the back of your head.

My daughter when she was about a year old. I locked up the unit (we were in an apartment then) and set her to watch cartoons. I went into the shower. OMG. I open the window of the bathroom and can hear my daughter singing. I look out and there she is sitting on the top level of the stairs. I ran out of the unit with a towel on and grabbed her. She could have fallen to her death. We had 3 locks on the door and she had got a chair and undone every one of them.

This child has been abducted

Do you really think a parent would have left the children knowing that they were not safe?

A British holidaymaker who stops to look says that he and his wife, like the McCanns, sometimes left their sleeping children alone in a hotel room while they had dinner nearby.

Another man says when he watched the McCanns make their first, painful statement to the media, he thought how easily it could have been him and his wife standing there.

Ref aboven.


















[edit on 14-5-2007 by NJE777]

Please!

A person intent on abducting a child can snatch a kid while their parents are 10 feet away in a department store paying the bill. It's happened.

What about the kid abducted from her bed, while the parents were in bed asleep?

You can't build a fence around your lives, and you can't blame decent people for the acts of the evil. It's a traggedy. The parents are heartbroken, and there is nothing society can do to them to make them feel worse that they do right now.

Taking their children from a loving home, and putting them in with psychos isn't the answer.

Hey, I have an idea.

If you believe in a God, well, then... can't believe I'm saying this, but it's a good time to sit down and pray for the safety of this child, and to pray for strength for the parents, instead of beating them up like this.

But, who am I to preach. LOL!!!

As a mother of four boys and a professional photographer, I can tell you 50 yards away IS NOT a far distance. In fact, its all one can do to keep them that close. With that being said, not looking over at your child constantly from that distance is irresponsible.

Look, I walk on the beach with my babies daily. Do they get more than 50 yards from me? Hell yes! Do people ride me about being too over-protecitve? Hell yes! So, who is to say these parents simply made a very poor decision that night.

I would NEVER leave my child out of sight at any distance. Especially in a foreign country. I would never go out to dinner and leave my child in a room alone.

Admittedly, I would absolutely have lunch at a ocean side cafe as my children play on the beach 50 YARDS away. In fact, I do it very regularly. This coming from 'an over-protective' mother than finds danger where there is none.

Every situation is different. Have sympathy for the parents bad decision making skills and lack of maturity but dont hate on them because they lost their child.

That, to me, is more heartless than if you were the one to take the lil girl.

You are all getting upset at the parents, when in fact where you should be angry is for what Catherine Austin Fitts calls "the popsicle index." Fifty years ago the index might have been 100 percent, but today what is it? This affects attitudes. The parents in the article might be entirely used to the concept of an authentic community, where their child would be safe. Your outrage may be to some extent misdirected.

Understanding the "Popsicle Index"

To help people understand how the global financial system affects their neighborhood, I came up with a very simple quality of life index based on one question:

�What percentage of the people in your place believes that a child can go to the nearest place to buy a popsicle or other treat, and return home alone safely?�

Your answer gives you the Popsicle Index or Solari Index of your place. The Popsicle Index is the % of people who believe a child can leave their home, go to the nearest place to buy a popsicle or snack, and come home alone safely. For example, if you feel that 50% of your neighbors believe a child in your neighborhood would be safe, then your Popsicle Index is 50%. The Solari Index is based on gut level feelings of the people who have intimate knowledge of a place, rather than facts and figures.

Maybe I'm getting my forums confused, but I read a thread almost identical to this a few days ago -- the thread commenced in almost identical fashion: by blaming the parents.

I followed it through several pages and one post was noteworthy: it detailed the experiences of an Irish man who, with his family, had holidayed a year or so earlier in either the same town as the one in which the little girl under discussion disappeared, or a similar holiday destination.

The Irishman stated that he on his return to the UK, he had gone on a radio talk-show to tell his story and to warn other parents.

Apparently, the Irishman and his family had rented a villa in a small Portuguese town. They were having a lovely holiday. Felt very safe. Then, one night, his young daughter (also blonde-haired, blue-eyed, around four years old) ran and awakened him. She'd been awoken by noises in her room.

The father went to investigate. He subsequently discovered that an intruder had broken into the villa as the family slept and from all the items in the villa had taken the father's passport and some of his clothes. These were discovered in a bag (in the child's room I think) and had obviously discarded by the intruder during his escape after the father went to investigate.

It was clear someone had 'cased' the Irish family prior to the break-in. It was clear also that the Irishman's daughter had been selected for abduction by someone who intended to pose as the child's father after taking her.

The Irishman said he and his family had ended their holiday and departed the village the next morning.

From this, it becomes clear that the abduction of 'selected' children is planned and executed by those prepared to stop at nothing. They're so brazen, they'll enter a dwelling in which the child's parents are only metres away.

Obviously, the perpetrators study the family and familiarise themselves with the internal lay-out of the dwelling. Either that, or they're already familiar with it. They familiarise themselves with the family's habits and routines. They probably follow them around, observing and noting when the parents rise, go to bed, take their meals, go shopping, etc.

The parents, who're on holiday, are not as organised as they would be when at home, not as observant. The holiday atmosphere usually results in people having a false sense of security. Staff at hotels, shops, restaurants etc. are usually polite and obliging. When on holiday and surrounded by friendly, polite staff and local inhabitants, people tend to trust strangers more than they would on their home-ground. They lower their guard; they relax.

There's a strong possibility that the abductors work on 'contract' basis: they steal children to order for pedophiles or other sub-humans.

The abductor commits the crime for gain; for money. The child represents money to them; is an object to be stolen and sold on.

There's a great deal of unemployment in Europe; great desperation. Migrants from North Africa for example, make their way to seemingly prosperous countries such as Portugal, Spain and France, in the belief they'll enjoy a much higher standard of living. When their dreams fail, they resort to desperate measures; child-stealing possibly being one of these.

Only luck and a noise which woke the Irishman's little girl, saved her from a dreadful fate. Dressed in her father's clothes and brandishing her father's passport, the kidnapper would have posed as the child's father. The child was included on her father's passport. If she'd cried or tried to run away from the kidnapper, people would have simply believed she was being difficult and would not have been suspicious when the kidnapper tucked her under his arm and boarded a plane or train or ferry. The kidnappers may even give their victims a sedative in a drink, to make them more manageable. Within hours, using the true father's passport, they could take the child halfway across Europe, while the police would still be fumbling around looking for clues in the parent's rented villa. The parents would be top of the list of suspects. The police would concentrate on them, first and foremost, and this would use up valuable hours and days. The kidnappers are aware of this. It's all very callous and calculated.

Those who're prepared to plan and execute the abduction of a child are ruthless and determined. A lot of money changes hands. Behind it are very powerful, wealthy perverts with reputations and a great deal else to lose. They have no intention of being caught and paraded before a revolted public. Money greases palms all along the route: police, investigators, those in the legal profession, etc.

If they simply wanted a child, they could easily obtain one as unfortunately, young children are available everywhere; parks, schools, in alley-ways and back-gardens, shopping malls, train and bus stations and rejected and alone in any town and city.

But these wealthy and powerful perverts aren't satisfied with such easy pickings; their twisted needs demand a 'valued' child, one stolen at great risk and transported across borders clandestinely while the distraught parents and law-enforcement agencies appeal for the child's return on national/international media. Children obtained in such a manner obviously provide an extra element of 'enjoyment' and 'excitement' for these jaded, inhuman monsters.

Possibly, we can ascertain that these monsters are not European, because they favour 'white' children: blue-eyed, fair-haired and fair-skinned European babies.

What precautions can parents take to safeguard their children's safety when monsters like this are prepared to break in to steal a child from its own bed while the parents are only metres away?

as I have said in this link below, The parents did so wrong.

www.abovetopsecret.com...'



You do not leave a 3 year old and 1 year olds alone. You just don't do that.

The child could wake up and the first thing the child is going to do is look for mommy and daddy. Why would you scare your child this way.

You could always do: (A) Take the child or children with you. (b) order in or (c )go through a drive thru. (d) order the food and one parent go and get it while another one stays with the children.

These parents were very careless. It’s not like their downstairs in their home while the children are upstairs sleeping.

They were almost a half of a football field away. 40 yards. That’s too far away to leave a 3 year old alone. I have said that this story sounds fishy to me.

You see, this once again just strengthens my opinion of parenting in today's society/societies. Parents aren't parents anymore.

I am thirty years old and I can tell you for a fact that my mother and father would never have left me by myself when I was three years old. Hell, they had reservations about doing it when I was 14 or 15 years old. That is what a real parent is.

From what I can tell, over the last 15-20 years, parents have completely disavowed any parenting obligations. Of course, I am not speaking of all parents, but there is a large percentage of them that just don't seem to care.

Originally posted by semperfortis
Regardless of the outcome,

Those "Parents" (Using the term loosely) should NEVER again have a child under their care...

This is irresponsible to an extreme level..

Semper

I have to agree with you Semp. Extreme irresponsibility indeed. As the father of a 4 year old, I just plain and simple don't get it. Wait until the child is awake, and bring her with you to dinner. That's what we do. Sometimes not the most convenient thing, but I can't even imagine doing it any other way. The thought of leaving my son somewhere by himself is absolutely unfathomable.

That's fishy, I wouldn't be surprised if they sold her.

How's the finances.

Obviously 'blame the victim' time.

Guess none of you is anything but a perfect parent, 24/7.

You never drink.

You don't smoke.

You don't use drugs.

You NEVER have anyone but perfect humans anywhere NEAR your children, EVER. In other words, you have personally vetted and investigated and cleared EVERY single person within a hundred miles of your child at any given time; his teachers, babysitters, grandparents, aunts, uncles, neighbours, your friends and associates.

You obviously do NOT go to work, ever. Because you are with your children, within inches of them -- JOINED to them with ropes -- 24/7.

When you go to the toilet, you take your child with you.

You NEVER sleep. Ever. Because you cannot afford to do so, can you? You must ALWAYS be watchful, alert and ready for action.

Therefore, you never get sick. You can't afford the 'down time' from 24/7 parenting.

You home school your children.. After all, there are so many cases of less than trustworthy teachers and child-care workers.

You NEVER leave your children. You take them shopping with you. To the hairdressers. Everywhere.

You never play sport.

You never go out for the night.

You never have guests over (because who knows WHO is a pedophile these days).

No-one is ever allowed to be alone with your child. Ever.

If it is EVER revealed that you left your child unattended for even a moment or from a distance of even two feet ----- then YOU will be subject to the 'blame' you're so eager to heap on the parents in the OP.

Too bad for your children that they'll grow up to hate you and themselves and their lives and the entire rest of the world (that you've taught them not to trust).

It's one thing to mow the lawn, or tend the garden while the little ones take a nap. However, it is an entirely different thing to leave your children unattended while you and your spouse sneak out for a quiet meal (even if it's only 50 yards away) on vacation in a foreign country.

In the first example, most neighbors look out for one another. Our children play together. We visit on each other's front lawns. A good neighbor will be quick to alert if someone they preceive as a stranger tries to enter a residence uninvited. It's what neighbors in tight communities do for one another.

In this case, the parents were dining in a resort restaurant amid perfect strangers. If there is an instance when a parent should heed proper vigilance, it's when they're traveling.

I feel for deeply for that poor child. I cannot even begin to imagine what her parents must be enduring.

Dock6

Your right I don’t smoke, drink or do drugs. I have never, ever left my children who are now 16, 13, 11 years old alone at the age of 3 why I go to dinner. I am just now for the first time in my kids life leaving my 16 year old alone for a couple of hours with his cell phone indoors. Doors locked. But, were talking about a 16 year old. He’s driving now. Will be going to college in a couple of years. Knows what a stranger is. Knows right from wrong. Has instincts. He’s not a helpless 3 year old.

These parents were very careless. If they had not left her alone she would still be with them.

I cannot understand what they were thinking when they did this. They were not at home in their yard where the child was in familiar surroundings. They were not in their home downstairs while their child was upstairs sleeping. Their not in their home. They did not have a sound monitor on her. They were very careless.

They are in a strange place where a 3 year old can wake up and be very scared if mommy and daddy is no where around.

Any time you go on a trip you know to extra cautious. People are always lurking to take your purse or belongings including your children. This is including roadside rest areas. You should stay in groups. Be aware of your surroundings. Any parent should know this. Instinct alone will tell you this.

No I don’t work. I have always stayed with my kids. Yes I do sleep. But, so did my kids. I had a sound monitor and could hear them. I had several locks on my doors. One where only a key would open it up.

Yes, I home school. But, not for your reasons. No I’m not a perfect parent. But, I’m smart enough to know not to leave a baby alone. That’s right a baby. Not a teen. Not an adult. A baby.

The parents did wrong here period.

Thank you for the replies thus far, many good points raised both sides of the fence but lets be clear on a few points.

We are not talking about parents who act responsibly, were not taliking about parents who had their children taken from under their noses abducted from school etc.


We are talking about 2 mature adults who left their 3 year old child on her own without childcare in a foreign country, they said they popped in to see her every hour. Why was their child such a burden to them that they thoufght their night out was of greater importance than the value of their daughter. They are negligent no more so than some one who leaves a loaded gun where a child could get hold of it.

Lets be serious about this when you have children they change your whole way of life, thinking etc. they are not some chattel to be left around or palmed off onto some one like the pet budgie. If you wish to have children one must be prepared to put them above and beyond one's personal interests.

As to the alleged abductor, these people are true preditors they seek out the ungaurded and the lax and strike when the opportunity presents itself.

My comments may be harsh but as a parent my grief is for that little girl and not the parents.

Dock,please,please tell me you were joking. The only thing that these two parents were the victim of was their own ignorance. They LEFT a three year old child by him/herself... You can't justify that I don't care how hard you try.



[edit on 14-5-2007 by SpeakerofTruth]

I dont think anyone lacking a three yr old, or child in other words, has a right to say what they would or wouldnt do... much less pass judgement on other individuals who do.