Originally posted by FlyersFan
Absolutely. What a bunch of hogwash. And the anti-America imps
will come trailing along to eat it all up ....

The OP blames America for all deaths on the planet. The figures and
the 'reasonings' are absolutely insane.

Again... so it makes me an Anti-America "hater" because I'm able and willing to point out the atrocities "we've" done (actually our leaders did and used propaganda to get us to self-rationalize it), in hopes that perhaps people will wake up to truth and maybe try to prevent it from carrying on????

So only 27M people have died since "America" was founded?


I was actually going easy with the number, was a little too nice actually.

I'm not justifying it, I'm merely stating that posting all these statistics won't change or solve anything whatsoever. The only thing it will do is add one more checkmark to a list of why people don't like the country.

But then what? Are you going to plan a revolution? Are you going to kill the people who kill people to teach them that killing is wrong? I'm all up for using statistics as interesting trivia, but learning that the united states has killed 27 million people does not change my opinion about anything in life whatsoever. I already don't blindly follow what my country says, and knowing the exact amount of people killed is entirely worthless beyond a "huh, how about that".

So the united states has killed a third of a single percent of what the world's population is now. They must be the worst country on earth. Surely every single citizen of the country had something to do with those murders and personally killed people!

Look, I live in the united states and have never murdered anybody. I don't know anyone who has. The government is not the people and the people are not the government. The percentage of this country who have done those killings is miniscule. Ranting about how many deaths can be attributed to a country is pointing the finger at hundreds of millions of people who had absolutely nothing to do with it.

[edit on 5/13/2007 by Ack]

God bless people like Ack.

I totally agree with you Ack, this thread has done nothing, but invoke hatred among people. I'm glad that you have not let this change your opinions because people shouldn't change all because one person throws numbers around like it's scripture.

Shattered OUT...

27,000,000 down.

6,568,000,000 to go!

Apparently I need to provide the "between the lines" interpretation here.

The very nature of this thread is beyond moronic.

Trillions have died simply for being born.

Everyone dies.

[edit on 13-5-2007 by apc]

Ignorenceisntbliss...


Im confused how you are cooking your numbers up here, your selection of instances to add to the list is equaly confusing. How you decide to add instences to the list if the US even sold/supplied anything to somebody and they used it. So, when anybody us a Russia made AK-47 to kill some one, this is atribuited to Russia?

And yet you leave out numbers where the US Dropped a Nuke on two cites...?


Things you put foreward are intresting, but what are you trying to prove?

Now, go find out how many the Romans slaughtered as the made and matianed thier great empire.

*Edit

i don't think he is an USA hater.

Just realy confused.







[edit on 5/13/2007 by TKainZero]

Tkain, you make excellent points. In the end of this story and the way this discussion should be closed is that there is a lot of evil in this world and there will remain to be evil. The most we can do about it is do what we do best, soldier on.

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil, is for good men to do nothing."

Shattered OUT...

wolf war.......about great britain, since you were talking about the brits, tony blair will leave office in early june due to his association to the iraq war and to george bush,I guess the brits don't like wars and want tony out, I guess the present matters, and when people agree that something bad is happening that should not hapen like murdering people and commiting crimes then they can ask for a change, as long as they do see the bad things in front of them
So it does matter...... but it does not, the past matters ....but not really, it matters as long as people are going to follow the same line and not change in any way in the present, if people can see their mistakes in the present day then the past really does not matter.
I don't see that happening in united states.
People still hate the russians and don't trust them for what they did, unlike germany that came and said, we are sorry world, we are sorry for what we did, people don't like united states not because it;s the land of the free, but because it's the land of the brave, too brave whith out any modesty at all, it's like a kid constantly coming out and saying hey look at me, do like me, I'm the gratest, it's like that cartoon caracter, jony bravo while it wages wars after wars.
Really do you think gas prices at pumps would be the same in united states if united states would have failed to support saudy lords that break human rights at treats human beings like dirt, not to talk about woman in the saudy arabia that are practicly slaves.
Supporting war lords in somalia that trafic drugs and kill people for fun, why? because it's in the intrest of the us goverment?
Cheers to the brits, "hey this guy is sending people that kill other people in our name", as a result tony blair is resigning.
America should do the same, but in stead what you do is" hey don't bash my country, my country is the greatest, we are never wrong because we are united states of america" and after that a few more people die as a result of I would call it oil pump operation.
This curent US administration is the worse administration I have seen, too bad for america, I happen to have alot of respect for american culture, but you guys are too proud to see anything.





[edit on 13-5-2007 by pepsi78]

This is sad but true .Americans killed millions of people only for their profits.
You guys shouldn't protest just because someone told you the truth , you should thinking about how it could be possible , and how you could stop that!
And please , forget for a minute the patriotism

Originally posted by ShatteredSkies
In the end of this story and the way this discussion should be closed is that there is a lot of evil in this world and there will remain to be evil. The most we can do about it is do what we do best, soldier on.

The point of this thread is for people to realize what ignoring the evil that drives this nation and US with it results in. If we ignore it we'll ne in Iran soon. People hardly protest Iraq, where I hate to admit "we're" ethicly stuck, but people hard;y protest that conflict let alone the fact that the propaganda machhine has US lined up for Iran. And so on.

Many if not most of my examples were to show what the CIA does, in our ignorance (that means all of US). They're the real root of evil here, they evne operate byond the direct knowledge of presidents. Millions DIE. We ignore it. When we hear about the tragedies they cause most of US attack whoevers doing the telling. The killings go on.

American Imperialism ladies and gentlemen. Stop it to stop US related killings, which is done in our name whether we know or not.

Originally posted by TKainZero
Im confused how you are cooking your numbers up here,

I went for things specifically related to American Imperialism. I was even 'nice' and counted out the World Wars and certain Cold War conflicts to remove items that could be rationalized since there were other empires to justify the onset of the conflict. There's so much stuff I left out.

How you decide to add instences to the list if the US even sold/supplied anything to somebody and they used it.

I calculated far more specific examples than what you're saying. If I were (even able) to calculate the results of the specific weapons sales we'd easily go beyond 100 million.

And yet you leave out numbers where the US Dropped a Nuke on two cites...?

Like i said, I went easy with the numbers. Those bombs were nasty, but perhaps even worse in the millions who died from indiscriminant and intentional bombings of civilian cites and so on. In Tokyo they intentionally fire bombed the entire city during night time raids. Hundreds of thousands burned to death. That's one city.

but what are you trying to prove?

I'm trying to resist American Imperialism however I can. It's not just these millions who die either. It's also our countrymen who are USED, I repeat USED, for clear cut imperialistic purposes, and then the second level of tragedy there is millions believe that they're actually fighting for OUR freedom and our Constitution.

Now, go find out how many the Romans slaughtered as the made and matianed thier great empire.

I've never supported the killing or related tyranny of any other empire. My post here is because my nation is the same exact monster, and with their literal ambitions for total global domination it's time to do something to stop the killings and the deaths of our own, while the $9 Trillion national debt keeps skyrocketing while they tax US with invisible INFLATION tax (devaluing of the dollar).

Originally posted by Ack
I'm not justifying it, I'm merely stating that posting all these statistics won't change or solve anything whatsoever.

So if nobody understands what "we've" done, it will get better all by itself? It will just go away? Do you watch the news? Hear Iran's name lately? Even if our leaders dont drive US into there, who's next...

The only thing it will do is add one more checkmark to a list of why people don't like the country.

Another reason for people to actually try to do something to make things better. As long as you don't know something will give you cancer, why would you stop if you can afford it etc.?

Are you going to plan a revolution?

If people actually cared about well much of anything besides what's directly in their day to day lives, that by definition would be a revolution. If American Imperialism just ended, that alone by definition would be a revolution.

Are you going to kill the people who kill people to teach them that killing is wrong?

It sounds like you're talking about a rebellion, but more specifically one that "forces people to be free" (ie. tyrannical regime takeover). So seeing me bash mass killings, you're now suggesting that the same would be my ideal vision?

I'm all up for using statistics as interesting trivia, but learning that the united states has killed 27 million people does not change my opinion about anything in life whatsoever.

And as long as people like you keep on thinking and behaving the same, no matter how powerful the new information is, you will all by definition have learning disorders. The flip side is where you chronically do the same exact thing over and over again, but each time you expect different results.

So the united states has killed a third of a single percent of what the world's population is now.

If you'd like I'll start a thread about the billions who suffer right now because of US hegemony. This thread was about showing some numbers related to US imperialism. I didn't even go into areas like those who still suffer in Vietnam from teh US using agent orange, which is undisputable, yet those people don't recieve any form of compensation despite the fact that the US was the imperialist aggressor. Or how "we're" using Depleted Uranium in all of our modern conflicts. It has a 12 billion year halflife, adn people are popping out with sickening birth defects probably as I type this.

They must be the worst country on earth.

When the people in a country staunchly support the killings, as evidenced in this very thread, it makes you wonder...

Surely every single citizen of the country had something to do with those murders and personally killed people!

Ignorance is complicity in this case, especially if you find out and decide to blow it off so you can get back to serving your own interests.

Look, I live in the united states and have never murdered anybody. I don't know anyone who has.

Would you like to see some statistics comparing violence and murder in the US compared to the rest of the world??? We're ALL indoctrinated our entire lives into violence and the whole imperialistic "warrior culture". The imperialist reality that consumes this entire nation and basically always has is the fountainhead of virtaully all of our problems, including poverty that leads to crime, and until we all as a society face up to this it will never change. Have a nice life. I hope none of US gets drafted...

The government is not the people and the people are not the government. The percentage of this country who have done those killings is miniscule.

Killing isn't the only form of violence or opression, and that applies especially to this very society. It's staggering to hear the percentage of battered women in this country. Shall I go on??

I'm not saying you're these ways, but your countrymen are all affected by the violence culture that we're all indoctrinated into, to support and maintain our imperialist stance and never ending global military conflicts.


[edit on 13-5-2007 by IgnoranceIsntBlisss]

Originally posted by apc
27,000,000 down.

6,568,000,000 to go!

If you could somehow see the image of every person unjustly killed by this spectre and mentioned here you'd possibly commit suicide with that arrogent and selfish attitude.

The 27M number was just some perspective. It goes far beyond that. But just in that number itself, that's only the number dead. The number who suffer and/or get way of life ending injuries always goes far beyond the kill count. What about the millions of families? Well, I guess, in your view, it's a good thing some of them are genocides so that few families are left around to mourn the arocity... eh???

Billion+ suffers worldwide thanks to the US destabilizing entire regions / continents and supporting harsh dominating regimes and so on. That's the real story, but if you can't get past this what's the sense?

[edit on 13-5-2007 by IgnoranceIsntBlisss]

Amazing post. So many links to sources. You should be a legislator. 27 MILLION and people get mad when they say the Jewish holocaust of ww2 didnt exist when in fact we are denying a much great holocaust perpetrated by our own nation... and it continues each day around the world. How many died today? Tomorrow? What great leaders and brilliant minds have been lost?

Alright enough of this. The US isn't the only country responsible for deaths. There's others too. What about the Germens? China? Russia, Darfur, what about them?! What about the crusades that caused so many deaths of Christains, Jews, and muslims? People are going to die in war IIB just picking the US is short sighted. And the way its looking now its perhaps gonna get a whole lot worse then 27 million.

[edit on 5/13/2007 by Leyla]

Originally posted by Leyla
The US isn't the only country responsible for deaths.

Isn't it funny how we've all heard about the atrocities of the other empires and tyrants, yet this thread is all news to probably 90+% of it's readers?
That's the real story.

Let's just point fingers at the other guys and stop talking about what "we've" done. It's easy... we've been trained to do that our entire lives. It's called indoctrination into jingoistic thought patterns.

First off can we all just read the facts presented there THEN debate, rather than resort to the all-to-common 'you anti-American islamofacist commie!' knee-jerk argument? Though I must admit that the title is rather misleading, an 'Approx. 27,000,000+' would be more fitting.
You know what? I'm getting really tired of the 'go to another country!' argument as well. So what if Ignorance is critical of his country's past role in major genocides? Any Germans here? Better get out of Germany if you disagree with the implementation of the Holocaust, you librocommies!.
Also nearly every country has it's purges/genocides/wipe-outs etc.
However the main difference is that Britian, France etc, for altruistc purposes or not, have stopped.
Do you see Britain hypocritically toppling regimes which it installed?
And then there's World War 2.
Want to hear what else I'm getting sick of?
The 'We did good things as well and without us (the U.S) the world would be different!'
First off the general consensus was anti-war and isolationist (Roosevelt got in on anti-war sentiment), and without Pearl Harbour wouldn't of even intervened.
Second off Germany was tied up in Stalingrad, Leningrad etc.
Yes Soviet Russia was close to collapsing but, without good 'ol Barbarossa the U.S and other Allied forces would have found a far greater struggle.
However I do agree that, without U.S intervention on the Pacific Front, Australia and New Zealand would probably be under the Empire of the Rising Sun.
Hell just read the Bible if you want to walk on the genocidal side.

[edit on 13-5-2007 by Chaoticar]

Isn't it funny how we've all heard about the atrocities of the other empires and tyrants, yet this thread is all news to probably 90+% of it's readers?

Not news, just untrue...

Well actually not untrue, but a fantasy concocted to plant blame where the OP wishes it to be..

Logically speaking, if we take the OP's conclusions to be founded in fact, and use the same method of logic on a scientific principle of analysis, here would be the result of such analytical presentations in regard to the original hypothesis posted by the OP..

1. The United States makes the weapons and distributes them around the world for whatever reasons. So the United States is at fault..

2. The Japanese make the electric components for the weapons. The Japanese are at fault.

3. The Mathematics used in the construction of the weapons are based on principles formulated in the Middle East, so the Muslims are the blame..

4. The raw materials are fabricated using principles discovered during the Industrial revolution, so the Europeans are definitely to blame....

5. Weapons were originally used by primitive man in Africa, so the Africans are absolutely at fault here....

6. The money used to pay for the weapons was printed in each individual country, but the process was invented again in Europe or arguably in China, so it's either the countries that paid for it, or the darn Chinese...

7. Ultimately though the real culprit here is Man and as man supposedly originated in Africa, well there you have it....

The Africans are responsible for ... let's see...

BILLIONS

Darn Africans

Again in hoping my ultra sophisticated wit won't be misunderstood again; as far a stretch as the preceding is, it is no more than the original post...

When looking for blame, one need only look as far as one is willing and of course assign that blame where ever one desires.. The defend it with hyperbole and supposition..

Semper

Wow are you off the deepend, Semper!

Why is my postulations any more "Off the deep end" than yours?

I fail to see how my connections, and they are all connected, are any more fanciful than what you fantasized about in the OP..

But regarding your obvious belief in what you posted, I can see how you may think my connections are not true...

Of course the singular belief in ones own infallibility is also a basis for discussion, though not at the present time or place..

The end result of the comparison between the too extremes, is of course that I do not believe my own creative license, and yet you actually support yours. Even though they are absolutely similar in conjecture, they are also identical in a "Belief Psychology" if you will.

But to paraphrase a common quote on here, "One should never argue with a singular minded individual, it serves no purpose and only upsets the "Individual."

Semper

On this thread and in the US, there are 3 type of people.

Objective people who just state the facts without patriotic sentiment.
Blind people who deny reality to save themselves from anger against their god that is their government.
Blind people who just deny everything because they say it's only US bashing.

HEY! It's a thread about US government killing people, it's not a thread about how your government is good! If you're not happy, create a thread about africans government killing or France or UK or Russia or China, you'll be happy.

Again government is NOT YOUR GOD... I don't know why you think that BS, do they teach that at church or at school?

And Soviet Union did lost 25 millions people. The best country in WW2 was Finland, sorry to say it... Britain is second because they did not fought nazis on their soil. If the Soviet Union wouldn't have an arms ban, much less people would have died. When the mens were doing resistance, womans and children were alone and we're killed without resistance by the nazis... Just look at Belarus (under Soviet Union control back then) where over 2 millions people, 90% of the jews in the country were deported and killed and over 9.200 villages were burned down!

Anyway, Mao and Stalin killed much more people in least time, but that will be nothing at all if the world government come into power. There you'll have BILLIONS of people killed.

[edit on 14-5-2007 by Vitchilo]