America's death toll on the world: 27,000,000++, page 5
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ATS Members have flagged this thread 26 times


reply posted on 13-5-2007 @ 02:23 PM by liquidself
I believe the following article to be most informative regarding the topic of this thread:
www.globalresearch.ca...

and also:

deoxy.org...

I also find the following article to be quite, well, signifigant :

www.crimesofwar.org...

Why wont it be signed by the U.S. I wonder?

Here s an eye-opener -

www.monthlyreview.org...

The U.S. is the only country that was condemned for international terrorism by the World Court and that rejected a Security Council resolution calling on states to observe international law. Fact.

- and by the way I am not a US hater, I think the American people have a vast potential for greatness and generosity.



reply posted on 13-5-2007 @ 02:33 PM by XBadger
It is simply silly to quantify a country's role in modern warfare based solely on how many casulties they suffered. So Russia lost 25 million? I think Richard Overy, the acknowledged expert in Russia's wartime experience, says that there were 10 million lost. But hey, whatever, we'll go with wikis numbers. Did China have a greater impact on ending WWII than Russia and the US and France combined because they(probably) lost more people (records are scattered)? Doubtful.

The simple fact of the matter is that war is not so much a questions of war as it is of economics. Thucydides said this, and it is even more true as systems of infastructure, technology, communications, etc. become more sophistocated. Simply put, without US aid in the form of Lend-Lease and later direct aid, then the Soviet Union would not have been able to survive the war. Don't take my word for it. Zhukov said that on numerous occassions during and after the war. For a historians take on it, look at the immenient Boris Sokolov who has studied the effects of Lend-Lease his entire career. Without the supplies, Russia would have been finished.

I can't speak to the actions in Asia, since I am only qualified to speak of European history, but given the gross ignorence and lack of credible sources when talking about WWII, then I would also doubt what you say there.
___________

To the person who said that the US gave Smallpox infected blankets. That is simply a false, urban legend. History has a record of sources, and rather than engaging in lying about the past, it makes more sense to be honest about what the sources say. There is plenty of terrible things that the USA has done, but lets not make things up.

There has been one documented case in which it was considered and debated (though the sources don't actually say whether it happened). It was considered by the BRITISH commander Lord Jeffrey Amherst during the 1763 Pontiac Rebellion. It is a bit disingenious to blame "America" for the actions of a British peer, acting under direction of the crown, and under functioning as a member of the British Regular Army. Especially since we don't actually know whether or not the blankets were ever distributed. Further making the story doubtful is where exactly did the blankets supposely come from? Good question, there was an epidemic at Fort Pitt, (which was in the middle of "the Indian country"). Very likely the Native population was already experiencing small pox. Eighteenth century smallpox epidemics were terrible, but relatively common. Of course the one we tend to think of is on the 1775 one, but 1763 was also a year of smallpox outbreak. The best and most recent book dealing with the spread of smallpox in the eighteenth century is Elizabeth Anne Fenn's _Pox Americana_. I would consider reading it before making claims that are false, and show that you are just likely to believe something that you "heard" once about history but haven't bothered to research whether or not it is true.


reply posted on 13-5-2007 @ 02:34 PM by IgnoranceIsntBlisss
Originally posted by Souljah
So there you have it - but what else can you do, when you have 702 military bases in 135 coverign nations around the world


It actually went up to 770 bases in '05, and then dipped way down to 764 bases in '06.
Now it's up to military personall in 159 of 193 world nations.

What imperial stance?


Alongside with weapons comes Cultural and Economical Imperalism.


Cultural Imperialism: Japanese and French intellectuals / scholars, that I'm aware of, have been referring to the U.S. as a "Cultural Hyperpower for ages now.

Soon once they get
A.I., "death star" satellites and mile-long sea bases it will be more than safe to refer to the military as hyperpower.

Political Imperialism also goes hand in hand with Economic. This duo is what comes first in a target region, and when they fail then the CIA "jackals" move in to do the 'ol assassination, coup detat etc. When that fails then the military moves in and you actually hear about it in the news. Since few ever hear of economic and political aspects, few gather much of the concept of American Imperialism.


EDIT: I forgot to mention wht I call "Domestic Imperialism", which is a rapidly growing issue that isn't quite news to anyone these days, although the term isn't there to name it that I'm aware of. This issue deserves it's own thread...

[edit on 13-5-2007 by IgnoranceIsntBlisss]


reply posted on 13-5-2007 @ 04:44 PM by coven
Originally posted by IgnoranceIsntBlisss
Cambodia under Pol Pot: 2 million massacred
en.wikipedia.org...


How are we responsible for this?


Well, how would that have happened if the US dind't pursue France's imperial colony?

The US didn't kill them directly, like many on my examples, but "we" started that mess. "We" were responsible for the political turmoil, coups, initial bombings, and so on in all of those countires.

here is my question... and I'm not taking a side on this... Killing is Killing, whether done for duty profit or fun. but sometimes killing those who wish for your countryman to die, is a duty that is justified for the common good of the masses.

If we count everything we started, all we are doing is opening the door for red herring to overpower any logical aspect of this argument. We need to step back and reiterate our statement, I.I.B. so that you can validly claim how many people American soldiers killed... I feel your argument would be MORE valid if you focused on military interaction only, as the numbers there are high; and not padded with fluff from other peoples wars.

don't count people killed by American bullets and guns... if that is the case France is one of the worst countries in the world due to the fact they ARM EVERYONE... The French have had arms deals with every country on the face of the earth, if you don't believe this... research it. (ohh and don't think I'm French bashing here.. I love the French, their culture and their country; so please don't assume I being a biased "conservative".)

Coven Out

Middle of the Road Candidate for President 2008


reply posted on 13-5-2007 @ 08:28 PM by ShatteredSkies
Sooo... ignoring the obvious flame-baiting of the original post made, how can the US be blamed for everything when other nations (who have existed far longer) have caused worse atrocities?

I don't have the time, nor the want or need to begin to list the casualties caused by other nations. It's there if anyone ever wants to research it. I can't believe the US is being picked on directly. This is the most pointless thread on ATS.

So what? People die. Humans are fragile. Lots of people do horrible things to others. Would you like to be given god powers and simply destroy the world now because there wouldn't be a better resolution? I'll tell you what, anyway you look at it this will never stop and no one will ever be right in any resolution. So get used to it and live you life and stop hating the US for things that have happened as far back as 400 years ago I understand and respect your want to have a different opinion, I just think it's totally pointless to list one nation's negative effect on the world.

And WoW is right and you're blowing this way out of proportion. He simply combated your original assertion that the US is evil for what it has done in the past, yet what you stated right there is what you want people to be led on to believe. So yeah, it is ok to have blood-thirsty warmongering people out there because they will always be out there and short of annihilating the entire human race, there is nothing you can do about it.

Shattered OUT...

[edit on 13-5-2007 by ShatteredSkies]
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