America's death toll on the world: 27,000,000++

reply to post by InSpiteOf

I agree with your view, here, in Argentina during the 70's, most army personnel trained in Escuela de las Americas:

The School of the Americas (SOA), in 2001 renamed the “Western Hemisphere Institute for Security Cooperation,” is a combat training school for Latin American soldiers, located at Fort Benning, Georgia.

here is the link to the info above
www.soaw.org...

here are some interesting links abour La Escuela de Las Americas

www.gwu.edu...

At that time South America was riddled with Dictatorships instigated by Kissinger.

If you all distrust this, I suggest you to inform yourselves reading Nunca Mas, by the CONADEP. It's available on pdf, in spanish. There you will know why there were 30000 "dissapearances" from 1976-1982.

in this link below, you'l find more information about how the empire strikes back

I'm from Argentina, I know what I'm speaking about, my very own parents grew up during the 70's


[edit on 4-5-2009 by youngandwilde]

reply to post by IgnoranceIsntBlisss


Congratulation IgnoranceIsntBlisss! For having the guts to post this info. No doubt you're going to get a lot of heat as the truth hurts.

If there were more people like you, the world will be more informed and perhaps a better place.

Kudos to you!!!

Originally posted by Inannamute
(pet peeve rant)

To anyone stating that the USA saved the world in WW2, please, please, please, go do some research. The role of russia, in WW2. The role of the UK in WW2. The role of france in WW2..

Interesting facts. Taken from here -
What's that? The ally that 'won the war' lost only 28,000 more soldiers than the tiny little country with a third of it's population?..

Yeah. I could go on, but then I'd just be ranting...

Inannamute

I won't go that far as the Yanks saved your bacon in WWII because in the history that I have read it was really all the allies contributions as well as Hitler's blunders that lead to victory in Europe.I think that is another key point America was on the verge of fighting a fanatical Japan as well. The US was leaning heavily into isolationism,not to mention battling a not so behind the scenes pro nazi factions in the country in the 30's. Roosevelt did as much as he could before Pearl Harbor to assist Great Britain and France. not to even mention the failed coup attempt by a few big business men who picked the wrong military man to inform of their plans.In other words America had a lot of crap going on.

There is no denying England's contribution in all aspects of the WWII including the heroic efforts of M15, the leadership of Churchill,and the stoic defiance of ordinary citizens in the face of the Blitz. Unfortunately America was caught with it's military pants down,holding Neville Chamberlain's "Peace in our time" sheet of paper while the Nazi's blitzed through Poland. The Americans weren't alone France folded in a week much to the dismay of Churchill,no country was as prepared as they should have been.
Coming off the Great Depression it's not surprising American soldiers rarely trained with
real guns,having to use wooden guns and potatoes as hand grenades well into 1942.
Even then the Americans really didn't get their tactics and experience together until after Africa and Italy campaigns.

The Russian army was absolutely decimated of leadership by Stalin's paranoia in the 30's throw in his belief in the truce with Hitler. Stalin was paralyzed for days after Hitler invaded Russia. The size of the Russian country side and sheer volume and determination of the common foot soldier plus Comrade Winter is all that kept Germany from conquering Russia.

Though I wasn't alive during this pivotal time in the World's history I do believe it was our finest hour not just for the USA but every country and man and woman who stood against the truly imperialistic governments of Germany,Japan and Italy.

I believe all of us owe a little bit to that generation,because I find it hard to believe any of those axis governments would have even remotely allowed the discussion we are having in this thread. In other words Ignoranceisbliss you wouldn't have even had the chance to shout from the the mountain top your beliefs without the sacrifices of "the greatest generation"

sorry for the long post

Peace

Native Americans: approx 10 million

You might as well blame the Spanish for 100 million deaths since they brought the diseases, so let take 9.5 million off the top here since we did have wars with them I’ll still say 500k.

Philippines: approx 1 million

Wow, do you just look for the biggest number and then say it is a fact? It actually says 20k dead with 16k counted with 200k from major cholera epidemic during that period.
So I can pull a number out of my butt too..lets say 50k to make everyone happy. That puts us at 550k now

Vietnam: 3+ million
en.wikipedia.org...
US Bombs Laos: 350,000+
foi.missouri.edu...
US role in Cambodia: 600,000 dead and 1,000,000+ wounded
en.wikipedia.org...

Some more extremely inflated numbers…From your link it basically said 1.1 million military deaths and up to 2 million civilian deaths on both side. So how many of these deaths were from the 520k north army, 350k Chinese army, 350k Korean army.

Or did America kill them all….

We will take 1 million to put us at 1.55 million even though it was much lower, but I feel generous.

Cambodia under Pol Pot: 2 million massacred
en.wikipedia.org...

I can’t figure this one out… Pol Pot was a communist and fought for the north in Vietnam. He killed 2 million of the educated population in Laos to setup his own dictatorship/communist rule…even the Americans there were killed…

Hmm we will just let Pol Pot have all these.

We are still at 1.55 million

Indonesia: 500,000+

Ok whatever… It is suggested the CIA supported the coup so we get the bill of the 500k…is there anyone else involved in any of this or is America to blame for everything.

Another big zero here…and we are still at 1.55 million

Hussein goes to war with Iran in 1980: 875,000+ dead

Actually Iran’s army was superior to Iraq’s and so Iraq was going to lose rather easily to Iran, and because of this America supported Iraq to balance the powers…well they fought each other because they do not like each other… They didn’t need to fight, so this one is on them not us..
1.55 million still

Hussein slaughters Iraqi Kurd's / other Iraqi's: 182,000 - 400,000
www.gwu.edu...

10 years of no fly zones to protect them… this one is on Saddam

1.55 million still

www.answers.com...
US gives Iraq green light to invade Kuwait:
en.wikipedia.org...

Does any of this blame actually go on the country that did all the invading…just makes me laugh…

US attacks iraq: 80,000

I agree…but in the defense of Kuwait...ok finally one that we actually were there and did..

1.635 million

Iraqi's dead from US sanctions: 500,000 children dead

I agree, but it was UN sanctions…

To make my number easier and make you happy 2 million

Iraqi's dead from US-Iraq War / occupation: over 600,000

Well kind of… 100k from us and 500k from insurgents/religious differences. So that puts us at 2.1 million

Nicaragua: 50,000
El Salvador: 50,000-75,000
Guatemala: 200,000
Argentina's Dirty War: 30,000
Operation CONDOR (Brazil, Chile, Argentina, Bolivia, Paraguay & Uruaguay): 80,000+ Dead/Disappeared

Getting tired debating everyone of these, but due to your normal inflated numbers I’ll give ya 200k in all these (2x what was directly killed in the Iraq war by us) so even 10% of that number is closer to the real thing,
but hey…

2.3 million now

US trained assaulting forces in the 2nd Congo War: 3,800,000

When we help its our fault…when we don’t help its our fault..this goes back to that just maybe the ones who did the fighting are the ones who did the killing…makes sense..

Plus Africa is one crazy place full of crazy people so they will kill each other with or without any help. They don’t care…no points here..

CIA baited USSR in Afghanistan: 1,500,000+

Lol, another whatever….so we supported Afghanistan in this…China supported North Vietnam, but no word from you on how many people were killed from their support, and in fact without their support the Vietnam war would had been over quickly and the south would had of won.

Blame Russia here.. you can also add it to the 250 million deaths from communism…

Oh BTW Russia built up Iran's army but still you want to give just us the bill for 800k deaths in the Iran/Iraq war..you my friend makes little sense in all these.


So where were we…2.3 million…

That is still a lot, but hey its been 250 years….



[edit on 5-5-2009 by Xtrozero]

reply to post by Xtrozero

You might as well blame the Spanish for 100 million deaths since they brought the diseases, so let take 9.5 million off the top here since we did have wars with them I’ll still say 500k.

I do believe the numbers I cited were for American Imperialism, not European Imperialism.

Wow, do you just look for the biggest number and then say it is a fact? It actually says 20k dead with 16k counted with 200k from major cholera epidemic during that period.
So I can pull a number out of my butt too..lets say 50k to make everyone happy. That puts us at 550k now

The 'conservative' 600k estimates were my guess those put forth by US historians, whereas the million plus numbers are more 'outside the guilty box' based. In truth I doubt anyone will ever know the true total, thats why we're going on estimates.

And the disease deaths are irrelevent in your context. The fact is they're the result of American Imperialism, and in that case US forces engaged in ruthless scortched earth campaigns which help create the conditions to cause the diseases.

Or did America kill them all….

You're missing the whole point, like with your other examples: The deaths are the result of American Imperialism, not just the result of shots fired by US troops in particular. The people died or whatever due to US AI's effects on the space time continuum.

Pol Pot: Read Above.

Indonesia: Read Above.

Iraq-Iran War: Would you really like to get into an extensive debate about the timeline of "US Interests" of that period, which influenced the war?

Be sure to read my "Space Time Continuum" paragraph above, again.

Iraqi dead: Read the sentence above, and then consider that today the number of dead Iraqi's is well above one million.

Afghanistan 1.0: Recheck your history of US Imperialism's involvement in creating that conflict: LINK.


So with your new found insights in this matter please do redo your math and tell me where that brings us. I honestly dont have time, and if I did there are many other examples and happenings of more recent I now know about to make this an even more 'awesome' number. And then imagine if we began to factor in Economic Imperialism.

reply to post by Inannamute


I find it amazing no one gave you a star for this one. It is a compelling argument that shows the truth about WWII. The UK and Russia carried the brunt of that war and the US is running away with the credit.

whoa.

i started reading through the disputes against the OP.

paraphrasing for the sake of the long and short of it all, one of the most common responses was that if it's "really" that bad, then get out!

other responses that stood out are "it's really not that high" and that America "helps people more than it kills" (!)

as far a comment i can put in exact quote that was just totally fabricated and representative of the rampant mainstream delusion:
"Cambodian deaths were a direct result of the U.S. pulling out of Viet-Nam, due to Anti-American activists"

^gosh. let's keep drinking that flouridated water and be happy that 10 yrs after 9/11 (another toll to add) our country of birth altruistically continues to "help" millions of people defeat terrorist Muslims & dictators in afghanistan, iraq, egypt, libya..

where next?

Originally posted by IgnoranceIsntBlisss
U.S. government attributable genocides & mass killings

Native Americans: approx 10 million
Population history of American indigenous peoples

Philippines: approx 1 million
en.wikipedia.org...

Vietnam: 3+ million
en.wikipedia.org...
US Bombs Laos: 350,000+
foi.missouri.edu...
US role in Cambodia: 600,000 dead and 1,000,000+ wounded
en.wikipedia.org...
Cambodia under Pol Pot: 2 million massacred
en.wikipedia.org...


Indonesia: 500,000+
educationforum.ipbhost.com...
en.wikipedia.org...
US backed Indonesia against defenseless East Timor: over 600,000, 1/3 of the population
www.gwu.edu...
US coerced Indonesia to annex West Papau in 1969:
www.gwu.edu...
The Indoensian genocides continue to this day:
news.bbc.co.uk...

CIA essentially puts Saddam hussein into power
www.google.com...
US arms Hussein
en.wikipedia.org...
Hussein goes to war with Iran in 1980: 875,000+ dead
en.wikipedia.org...
en.wikipedia.org...
en.wikipedia.org...
en.wikipedia.org...
Hussein slaughters Iraqi Kurd's / other Iraqi's: 182,000 - 400,000
www.gwu.edu...
www.answers.com...
US gives Iraq green light to invade Kuwait:
en.wikipedia.org...
US attacks iraq: 80,000
en.wikipedia.org...
Iraqi's dead from US sanctions: 500,000 children dead
www.globalissues.org...
Iraqi's dead from US-Iraq War / occupation: over 600,000
www.cnn.com...

Nicaragua: 50,000
El Salvador: 50,000-75,000
Guatemala: 200,000
www.serendipity.li...
www2.truman.edu...
www.gwu.edu...
www.gwu.edu...
www.gwu.edu...
Argentina's Dirty War: 30,000
www.gwu.edu...
Operation CONDOR (Brazil, Chile, Argentina, Bolivia, Paraguay & Uruaguay): 80,000+ Dead/Disappeared
en.wikipedia.org...

US trained assaulting forces in the 2nd Congo War: 3,800,000
www.worldpolicy.org...

CIA baited USSR in Afghanistan: 1,500,000+
en.wikipedia.org...

More numbers:
www.hawaii.edu...

TOTAL:
27,000,000
Doesn't count indiscriminate killings related to the 'Empire Wars": in any of the World Wars, Korea and so on.

End American Imperialism to end the killings.

[edit on 13-5-2007 by IgnoranceIsntBlisss]

the phillipines?

wiki gives a range of 34,000-1mil?

you took the mil figure.

pol pot? we pulled the trigger?

i stopped reading after these 2.


fail!

Originally posted by fooks

the phillipines?

wiki gives a range of 34,000-1mil?

you took the mil figure.

pol pot? we pulled the trigger?

i stopped reading after these 2.


fail!

actually makes sense since new retolls/estimates in the past year bring the total to even MORE than a million filipinos (filamimage.com...)

after USA bombed Cambodia more than any country in the world (except its sister Laos), per Pres Nixon's commands, USA's CIA 'loaned' Lon Nol US$300,000,000 to overthrow the Cambodian Kingdom and install Pol Pot's Khmer Rouge. roughly 1/3 kampuchea's population was exterminated (!!!!) while US sat back for the next 40 yrs. US so happened to put astronauts on the moon 6 times during the time conveniently between the beginning and end of the Vietnam War 1969-1972 (laugh) and never set foot again even thru to present.

dwelling on the past? nope. just last year in intl court, US sued cambodia for the blood money plus 40yrs compounded interest! Cambodia's gov made their case that much of the money was given to coupe leader for a "Revolution" (sound familiar in these times) for repair of the US bombings by new gov and funding of the Coupe and Khmer Rouge operations. US big broke bully that it is, did not 'forgive' Cambodia this blood money.
*hungry stomach growl*
www.voanews.com...

our tax dollars hard at work!

And that absolves all US wars for empire?

Imperialism still dominates the 21st Century?

How many were NOT neccessary?
How many lives were lost for a good reason?
I am fully aware of attrocities, I KNEW one of Ollie's Rangers.
I don't have a complete picture ,NOBODY does that's why they classify so much.
But to claim that the US is some kind of imperial monster is a joke.
OLIGARCHS are to blame who OPERATE the world.
Attacking vets and warriors is like attacking the mailman for bills.
It 's shortsighted ,it COMPLETELY is ignorant of how the world operates and it ONLY serves to attack the vets to claim that.
Imperialism is HOLDING land ,subjugating people to your culture by force. We are INVITED to the countries (SAVE Cuba)we have bases on or we would have to leave.
We invade by materialism and media primarily,and it works.
Most want to come here without knowing how hard an American job really is,how hostile we are to alien cultures and WHY.
We don't own ANYTHING we haven't bought,and after the DARK AGES I think Europe can STFU.
As to MY killing so what? QUIT ELECTING OLIGARCH supporters...good luck with that.

originally posted by: cavtrooper7
OLIGARCHS are to blame who OPERATE the world.
Attacking vets and warriors is like attacking the mailman for bills.

Oligarchs spin the dials. War machines are amongst the dials on the panel.

But guns dont shoot people, people shoot guns. When people shoots guns do we blame the guns and/or the people and/or the propaganda and/or the EMPIRE itself?

How many times can a person keep firing the gun for the empire before they are too the blame?

If they will continue to fire the guns are they forever blameless for the empire, even though they didnt invent the fricking thing?

Are not the oligarchs, the war machines, the guns, the little people involved, the propaganda, are not they all cogs in the same machine?

a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

No they aren't ,it boils down to WILL .
You have a singular definition for empire that doesn't apply to such a complex situation WORSE you don't understand WHAT the hell policies these clowns have put in place.
If you demand blame I suggest Rand and the rest of the think tanks
Until then if you really want to fight a vet for what he has done GOOD luck ,WE regard such as hippie retreads and thus easily dismissed.

originally posted by: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

I do believe the numbers I cited were for American Imperialism, not European Imperialism.

in that case would WWII and its 50+million deaths be classified under German Imperialism??

and since you havent given a timeline i should go all the way back to the crusades of the holy roman empire and add them to germany's death toll??

as well as the death toll of when Rome was at war with the germanic tribes?

or should we also look at china during its warring states period, unification of china, three kingdom period??

unless your point is that wars causes large amounts of casualties?

a reply to: choos

Germany did start WW2, unless we're going to go the Jewish bankers funding both sides debates lol.

This was to open everyone's eyes to the reality of how the American Empire is evil too. Imperialism always plays out evil.

a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

then you should be opening everyones eyes to the evil imperialism and not just focus on one country.

it just a veiled attempt at america bashing (im not american btw)

a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

Actually a lunatic Polish Marshal Smiglys Polish-Jewish partisans attacked the Gleiwitz radio station and baited Germany into the war,Hitler(and Im not saying Nazis were nice guys) actually wanted to discuss a ceasefire on several occasions but the Zionist masters of Churchill,Rooservelt etc wanted Germany completely destroyed.....just as they now wish to destroy Russia...book for you Planet Rothschild by M.S King brush up on some unofficial history before its banned.

The spread of nationalism has gone insane. We condone all types of horrors in the name of flag and country. Spirit and humanity first.

a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

War is peace.....As others have mentioned 1984 was not supposed to be an instruction manual......

From what i have read so far you have copped a bit if flack on this...i guess the truth hurts for some which is interesting considering the purpose of a war machine is to spread war...

Anyhow carry on

a reply to: cavtrooper7

WE regard such as hippie retreads and thus easily dismissed.

I apologize if i am off the mark but is that a way of saying as a soldier you just do as you are told regardless of the moral implications ?