Dept. of Homeland Security: "You'll get a National ID and you'll Like it", page 7

This is exactly why people must pay attention to candidates like

RON PAUL

Listen to what he had to say about National ID's since back in 2004

A national identification card, in whatever form it may take, will allow the federal government to inappropriately monitor the movements and transactions of every American. History shows that governments inevitably use the power to monitor the actions of people in harmful ways. Claims that the government will protect the privacy of Americans when implementing a national identification card ring hollow. We would do well to remember what happened with the Social Security number. It was introduced with solemn restrictions on how it could be used, but it has become a de facto national identifier.

www.antiwar.com...

Seriously, I lean on the Liberal fence but I would vote for this guy in a second if he won the Republican nomination. The sad truth is that he is getting marginalized by his own party and major media networks. Why? Becuase those in power fear what he stands for...Government serving the people and not the people serving the government!

There is NO reason why the government should be gaining this much power. They say that National ID's are in the citizens best interest? HOW!? Do not become lured in by excuses of safety. Let's not become Orwell's 1984!

Seriously, if things like National ID's, gluttonous government spending, ,and insane wars make you think twice about the direction of America, then please spread the word about Ron Paul.

Originally posted by Diplomat
Do you really believe that if George H Bush was involved in a secret world government he would openly talk about it on television? Yea, that makes a lot of sense...

It's called assimilation to the idea.

Introduce the desired concept into the consciousness of the people so that when it does take place, people are already aware of the idea.

They did this with 911, remember anthrax? Well who was to blame when the buildings were destroyed? Terrorists...
people were already assimilated to the idea that terrorists were attacking America and so they easily swallowed the bull that terrorists attacked the World trade center.

Psychological Warfare: the use of propaganda, threats, and other psychological techniques to mislead.

It plays a huge part in shaping ideological perceptions in order to achieve a hidden agenda.

Yes i do think that if George H Bush was part of the plans of the NWO, he would have openly discussed it. Because that would be the perfect way into assimilating people to that dooming reality.

Originally posted by defcon5

here in Florida we already have set up the infrastructure to track RFID’s on our highway system. This has been implemented under the auspices of the “Sun Pass” road toll system. If you look at this photo:
Personally, I think anyone using these systems out of convenience is out of their mind, I mean how hard is it, really, to slow down and throw a handful of change in a bucket?

Anyway, come to find out that they have passed a law here that now we have to get new license plates every five years, rather then just a tag. Who here wants to guess at how long its going to be before the RIFD tags are in our license plates too, if they are not already. Is it really the governments business what road I drive on at what time, how often, and where I go with my “Free” time?

oh man, that sort of thing is old news in Australia, as any interstate truckie knows.

they have these similar looking things all over the country, especially at any major roads on the outskirts of all major capital cities to stop truckies driving for long stints without a break.

a mate who is an Nation wide truckie (and practically lives out his trucks sleeping cab 28 out of 30 days) can only drive so many hours before he has to pull over and take a forced break.. i *think* he said every 8 hours he has to have 4 hour break or something thereabouts, i cant remember the exact times he stated..

anyway, you leave one capital and its logged as you exit. any other arrays you pass under in your travels are also time stamped. This is so they can monitor how many KM you have travelled in however many hours, and they know the maximum speed/minimum time because ALL trucks are speed limited (usually 100kph i think) so its impossible to go from one capital to the other in less than their stated time.

if you do pass an array too soon it again timestamps AND the cameras on the array snap a photo of the truck and they will then grill your employer and have a damn good look in your trucking log book.
if you dont have a reasonable explanation you get an arse kicking or very likely your national license revoked.
truckies MUST keep correct and up to date log books at all times.

im pretty sure they either have, or are about to do a similar thing with the sydney harbour bridge toll gates in one form or another, or thats what i read somewhere.

Originally posted by Stormrider
If they can get away with injecting tracking chips into 200 Alzheimers patients, what makes you think they can't get away with doing the same to you, without your knowledge, say while getting your routine flu vaccination or your childs booster shots? Putting RFID chips in drivers licenses and credit cards is just the beginning.

dude, have you ever seen one of these needles or the microchip device that gets installed in your pets?
it cannot be flushed into the system with a flu shot. its the size of a grain of rice, and as such the needle is pretty wide and requires a general anest. for pets.

you WOULD know if you got jabbed with one of these things, get the end of a ball point pen and jab it into your arm under the skin. it feels totally different to a regular flu shot.

as for the pet microchip itself, the scanner has to be near the skin for it to be detected. The vet checks the chip is working on occasion and they have to scan around the neck area at fairlyclose proximity to even detect the chip..

but the idea of a national ID card is becoming a reality in Australia also, and i hate the idea as do many others including those fighting for our civil liberties and rights.

[edit on 13/5/07 by Obliv_au]

[edit on 13/5/07 by Obliv_au]

Originally posted by forestlady
I'm curious about how the Christians on this thread respond to this idea and to the idea of RFID chips.

I have already mentioned above that this fit’s the criteria of what is considered “the mark” of the bible, and it’s the first thing that has historically existed which fit’s the description so well. I’ll explain the reasoning behind this somewhat below, however I do not want to sidetrack this thread into a religious debate, and if it becomes one I say we take it to another thread.

Originally posted by Stormrider
The National ID itself, even with an embeded chip, does not fit the profile of the mark of the beast. However, if it should ever become mandatory to receive a chip directly embeded under the skin in order to buy/sell, etc, that i would look on as the proverbial mark, and I would not take it.

Originally posted by iori_komei
Technically, the mark of the beat, according to Christian mythology has to fill two requirements.
1. It has to have the number 666 in it.
2. It has to be on the left arm/wrist or on the forehead.

This idea that the chip must be “in” the skin is a misunderstanding of what “the mark” is, it is often misquoted as such by those who believe in Futurism. Futurists are the most outspoken group in the eschatology crowd, and almost all commonly available literature and film is from the Futurist point of view. I, as a great many protestants, am a historicist, which is the proper style of interpretation for protestant faiths. There is a reason why futurism has become so rampant, but I am not going to take the time to explain that in here, its not important to this thread. The important part is to understand that this ID does not have to be a tattoo, implant, or anything else attached to the body, but it does have to fit several other criteria.

I am not going to go into to much depth on this but first you must understand that in Revelations this has a lot to do with Rome. Rome was the world superpower at the time which Revelations was written, and several of the entities in Revelation refer to Rome. The first beast, which rises out of the ocean, is a direct correlation with the four beasts mentioned in Daniel, and represents the Roman Empire, who ingested the other three previous world powers. These previous powers being: Babylon, Media/Persia, and Greece.

The Biblical “Mark” is a directly related to Roman Citizenship. Roman Citizens where granted special privileges, which others were not, including:

Roman Citizenship
While citizen rights varied over time, a partial list of them includes:
The right to vote, however this was only in the Republic.
The right to make legal contracts.
The right to have a lawful marriage.
The right to stand for civil or public office.
The right to sue (and be sued) in the courts.
The right to appeal from the decisions of magistrates.
The right to have a trial (to appear before a proper court and to defend oneself).
The right not to be subjected to torture or scourging.
The right of immunity from some taxes and other obligations, esp. local rules and regulations Catholic Resources
A Roman citizen could not be sentenced to death unless he was found guilty of treason. If accused of treason, a Roman citizen had the right to be tried in Rome. Even if sentenced to death, no Roman citizen could be sentenced to die at the cross. (Despite being found guilty of the same crime, St. Paul and St. Peter faced different fates. St. Paul was beheaded, while St. Peter, not being a Roman citizen, was crucified.)
Roman citizenship was required in order to join the Roman legions, but this was sometimes ignored.

A “Mark” is something that is a sign of allegiance to a government which bestows the rights of citizenship, in this instance specifically under Roman Law. Anyone who tells you a different definition of what a “Mark” is, either has not studied eschatology enough, or is trying to deceive you. Now, how does Roman Citizenship relate to the United States and the Nation ID?

The US legal system is based on Corpus Juris Civilis, which was the first codifed set of laws written by Justinian I. The US Constitution is similarly very much based on the constitution of the Roman Republic. Just as Revelations mentions with the Second beast (often referred to by Futurists as the False Prophet), “and he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship (meaning to kiss, like a dog licking his master’s hand, to fawn or crouch to, or do reverence to, adore) the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.” Basically meaning they will cause all their citizens, and the citizens of all their allied “Nation States”, to comply with their legal and monetary system, which is all based on that of Rome (the wounded first beast).

The “666’ or “616” quoted by iori_komei above, relates back to a certain station of men which existed in the Roman Empire during the time of writing. This station still exists to this day, and many have speculated that the reason for the discrepancy in it being both 666 and 616, is that the scribes who copied this document understood who it pointed to; Nero Claudius Drusus Germanicus. Nero’s titles fit the numeric equivalent of both 666 and 616. Now the writer did not mean the man, as obviously the man did not live to see the end times, but rather his station; the station held by Nero was both Caesar and Pontifex Maximus of the Roman Empire. Even the Holy Roman Catholic Church accepts that the 666 and 616 definition point to Nero Claudius Drusus Germanicus.

Hopefully, with the installment of the “Patriot Act”, you can look at the list of privileges above and see how this all interrelates. Refusal to receive this “Mark” of allegiance to this last “World Empire” and her allied “Nation States“, will cause you to lose your rights of Citizenship. We have seen this done already to folks who have been arrested without cause, held without trial, tortured, and sometimes put to death since the passing of that act. Without this mark you become a “non-person” (read non-citizen) within this country, and are stripped of your rights as such. Now how fair is that to someone like myself, which was born here, has never broken a law outside of a driving infraction or two, has been cleared to work in secure areas such as aviation, paid my taxes and dues, but cannot receive this on grounds of religious belief?

So to sum this up, the true definition of the mark is that it is: “a sign of allegence to the final “World Empire” and/or her allied “Nation States” during the end times, which bestows privlages in line with those of Roman Citizenship, and fialure to receive it subjects the refusser to the inability to work and otherwise obtain life sustaining goods or services, and opens them to persicution with no reguard to their rights of being a citizen within this nation.” It also in some way relates to the “right hand” or “Forehead”, which can be interpreted to mean the writers understanding, at the time, of the process of biometric reading of the finger prints or retina scans. One or both will be contained in the RFID chip within this card.

Originally posted by Stormrider
That is not "technically" correct, iori. 1. The number 666 is used in scripture to identify the name of the Anti-Christ: "
Just trying to keep the facts straight.

This is not “technically” correct either, and is directly disputed by the man who coined the phrase Antichrist:

1Jo 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
1Jo 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son
1Jo 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
2Jo 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

The beast are not Antichrists under any teaching but that of the flawed school of Futurism, Beasts are quite easily shown to be Kingdoms in all other prophetic writings, especially in the book of Daniel which relates directly to the book of Revelation.
These are the straight facts, in truth…

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