Originally posted by forestlady
I'm curious about how the Christians on this thread respond to this idea and to the idea of RFID chips.
I have already mentioned above that this fit’s the criteria of what is considered “the mark” of the bible, and it’s the first thing that has
historically existed which fit’s the description so well. I’ll explain the reasoning behind this somewhat below, however I do not want to
sidetrack this thread into a religious debate, and if it becomes one I say we take it to another thread.
Originally posted by Stormrider
The National ID itself, even with an embeded chip, does not fit the profile of the mark of the beast. However, if it should ever become mandatory to
receive a chip directly embeded under the skin in order to buy/sell, etc, that i would look on as the proverbial mark, and I would not take
Originally posted by iori_komei
Technically, the mark of the beat, according to Christian mythology has to fill two requirements.
1. It has to have the number 666 in it.
2. It has to be on the left arm/wrist or on the forehead.
This idea that the chip must be “in” the skin is a misunderstanding of what “the mark” is, it is often misquoted as such by those who believe
in Futurism. Futurists are the most outspoken group in the eschatology
crowd, and almost all
commonly available literature and film is from the Futurist point of view. I, as a great many protestants, am a historicist, which is the proper style
of interpretation for protestant faiths. There is a reason why futurism has become so rampant, but I am not going to take the time to explain that in
here, its not important to this thread. The important part is to understand that this ID does not have to be a tattoo, implant, or anything else
attached to the body, but it does have to fit several other criteria.
I am not going to go into to much depth on this but first you must understand that in Revelations this has a lot to do with Rome. Rome was the world
superpower at the time which Revelations was written, and several of the entities in Revelation refer to Rome. The first beast, which rises out of the
ocean, is a direct correlation with the four beasts mentioned in Daniel, and represents the Roman Empire, who ingested the other three previous world
powers. These previous powers being: Babylon, Media/Persia, and Greece.
The Biblical “Mark” is a directly related to Roman Citizenship. Roman Citizens where granted special privileges, which others were not,
While citizen rights varied over time, a partial list of them includes:
The right to vote, however this was only in the Republic.
The right to make legal contracts.
The right to have a lawful marriage.
The right to stand for civil or public office.
The right to sue (and be sued) in the courts.
The right to appeal from the decisions of magistrates.
The right to have a trial (to appear before a proper court and to defend oneself).
The right not to be subjected to torture or scourging.
The right of immunity from some taxes and other obligations, esp. local rules and regulations Catholic Resources
A Roman citizen could not be sentenced to death unless he was found guilty of treason. If accused of treason, a Roman citizen had the right to be
tried in Rome. Even if sentenced to death, no Roman citizen could be sentenced to die at the cross. (Despite being found guilty of the same crime, St.
Paul and St. Peter faced different fates. St. Paul was beheaded, while St. Peter, not being a Roman citizen, was crucified.)
Roman citizenship was required in order to join the Roman legions, but this was sometimes ignored.
A “Mark” is something that is a sign of allegiance to a government which bestows the rights of citizenship, in this instance specifically under
Roman Law. Anyone who tells you a different definition of what a “Mark” is, either has not studied eschatology enough, or is trying to deceive
you. Now, how does Roman Citizenship relate to the United States and the Nation ID?
The US legal system is based on Corpus Juris Civilis
, which was the first codifed set of
laws written by Justinian I
. The US Constitution is similarly very much based on the constitution of
the Roman Republic. Just as Revelations mentions with the Second beast (often referred to by Futurists as the False Prophet), “and he exerciseth all
the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship (meaning to kiss, like a dog licking his
master’s hand, to fawn or crouch to, or do reverence to, adore) the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.” Basically meaning they will
cause all their citizens, and the citizens of all their allied “Nation States”, to comply with their legal and monetary system, which is all based
on that of Rome (the wounded first beast).
The “666’ or “616” quoted by iori_komei
above, relates back to a certain station of men which existed in the Roman Empire during the
time of writing. This station still exists to this day, and many have speculated that the reason for the discrepancy in it being both 666 and 616, is
that the scribes who copied this document understood who it pointed to; Nero Claudius Drusus Germanicus. Nero’s titles fit the numeric equivalent of
both 666 and 616. Now the writer did not mean the man, as obviously the man did not live to see the end times, but rather his station; the station
held by Nero was both Caesar and Pontifex Maximus of the Roman Empire. Even the Holy Roman Catholic Church accepts that the 666 and 616 definition
point to Nero Claudius Drusus Germanicus.
Hopefully, with the installment of the “Patriot Act”, you can look at the list of privileges above and see how this all interrelates. Refusal to
receive this “Mark” of allegiance to this last “World Empire” and her allied “Nation States“, will cause you to lose your rights of
Citizenship. We have seen this done already to folks who have been arrested without cause, held without trial, tortured, and sometimes put to death
since the passing of that act. Without this mark you become a “non-person” (read non-citizen) within this country, and are stripped of your rights
as such. Now how fair is that to someone like myself, which was born here, has never broken a law outside of a driving infraction or two, has been
cleared to work in secure areas such as aviation, paid my taxes and dues, but cannot receive this on grounds of religious belief?
So to sum this up, the true definition of the mark is that it is: “a sign of allegence to the final “World Empire” and/or her allied “Nation
States” during the end times, which bestows privlages in line with those of Roman Citizenship, and fialure to receive it subjects the refusser to
the inability to work and otherwise obtain life sustaining goods or services, and opens them to persicution with no reguard to their rights of being a
citizen within this nation.” It also in some way relates to the “right hand” or “Forehead”, which can be interpreted to mean the writers
understanding, at the time, of the process of biometric reading of the finger prints or retina scans. One or both will be contained in the RFID chip
within this card.
Originally posted by Stormrider
That is not "technically" correct, iori. 1. The number 666 is used in scripture to identify the name of the Anti-Christ: "
Just trying to keep the facts straight.
This is not “technically” correct either, and is directly disputed by the man who coined the phrase Antichrist:
1Jo 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists;
whereby we know that it is the last time.
1Jo 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son
1Jo 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist,
whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
2Jo 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an
The beast are not Antichrists under any teaching but that of the flawed school of Futurism, Beasts are quite easily shown to be Kingdoms in all other
prophetic writings, especially in the book of Daniel which relates directly to the book of Revelation.
These are the straight facts, in truth…