Dept. of Homeland Security: "You'll get a National ID and you'll Like it"

Originally posted by carnival_of_souls2047

Originally posted by defcon5

Originally posted by FreeSpeaker
Personally i'm in favour of a national ID.From immigration to health care to law enforcement,all would benefit from a national ID.

I would like to know exactly how this is supposed to curb or stop illegal immigration anyway. In my opinion, this is nothing but an excuse to implement a tracking device upon the citizenry of this country.

I agree. This is merely an official tracking device and won't provide much help with the expansion of illegal entries. Ugh.

Consider if it was made illegal to open bank accounts or attain employment without a national ID.Any new system needs additional help from the private sector to succeed.

I'm sure the chances of the government actually changing laws to help a national ID to succeed are low,but i'm allowed to be optomistic.

I must be clear that I am not in favour of a national ID with RFID tech.I have no more desire to be tracked than the next person,but without RFID,sure i'm in favour of it.

[edit on 12-5-2007 by FreeSpeaker]

This is an extremely disturbing trend....but not unexpected. Recently, I heard a news clip(I dont recall where, I will search for it and post it as soon as I have time) that spoke of a new project that the US government is aspiring to. It involved sending a wireless router into space to enable a worldwide wireless network.

It would seem that it would fit in quite nicely with a RFID chip. ANd it would fit into the governments policy of hiding their true intentions square in front of us. Consider that - in this day and age, its hard to hide anything.

The most frightening thing about this is not the financial aspect - although it is an issue, most people would submit based on need. Parents need to feed their children. People need to make a living, ect. It is sad that submission would be based on that, but in the end I understand, and I know that is the way the world works.

The most frightening aspect is we would be losing the ability to act on one of the founding principals and possible necessities of a free society - rebellion. This RFID chip, if it indeed has the ability to track movements, would cripple any uprising that could occur should a tyrannical government came into existance. The founding fathers knew this may happen(that being the uprise of a tyrannical government), and therefore they made it the legal right to carry a firearm. They did that because of the revolution against the british, and knew full well that it could occur within our our fledgling government. They believed that any free man or woman should be able to fight against it; our revolution was a testement of that.

Of course Im not putting in any illuminati connection in that opinion. While there is evidence of that - I cant put all the pieces together as of yet, I question the information that has been found, and furthrmore, I am just not comfortable with encouraging ideas that lack a certain level of coherance. It may be that this is so called NWO plan....And if it is then the stakes are much higher than just the US.

Thanks for the time

Kaja

Could somebody explain to me why a national id is a bad thing?

I mean, its not that I think its a good thing, I just always hear all the NWO acolytes talk about how bad it is and how it will restrict my freedoms. What is the difference between a nation wide ID system and a state ID system? how is this bad?

Here is another video on the "Chipping of America" and the National ID Card.





Scary Stuff folks.

It will render a person to be an object....

You will be no different then an object being scanned, don't you see what is wrong with this picture?

It's like you will be property of the government, literally.

There is also a high possibility that an implant will be capable of interfering with thoughts processing...

Here read this, i still didn't read it all yet though but the start is interesting.

proceedings.informingscience.org...

Originally posted by selfless
It will render a person to be an object....

A national ID? just having an ID thats not state issued makes you an object? Technically, your already an object, your possession are property of the united states, you just pay upkeep to keep them.

You will be no different then an object being scanned, don't you see what is wrong with this picture?

again, its just an ID card, I dont see how it takes you down to the same caliber as a clearance can of peas.

There is also a high possibility that an implant will be capable of interfering with thoughts processing..

Firstly, I'm not talking about implanted chips, I'm talking about NATIONAL ID CARDs.

Secondly, theres no evidence that RFID chips in your palm or wrist have any way to interact with your complex electrical signals in your brain. And honestly, if they had a way to do it that far away from your neurons, your already screwed, because they would definitely have much easier ways to effect your thought patterns externally.

Originally posted by WolfofWar

Originally posted by selfless
It will render a person to be an object....

A national ID? just having an ID thats not state issued makes you an object? Technically, your already an object, your possession are property of the united states, you just pay upkeep to keep them.

You will be no different then an object being scanned, don't you see what is wrong with this picture?

again, its just an ID card, I dont see how it takes you down to the same caliber as a clearance can of peas.

There is also a high possibility that an implant will be capable of interfering with thoughts processing..

Firstly, I'm not talking about implanted chips, I'm talking about NATIONAL ID CARDs.

Secondly, theres no evidence that RFID chips in your palm or wrist have any way to interact with your complex electrical signals in your brain. And honestly, if they had a way to do it that far away from your neurons, your already screwed, because they would definitely have much easier ways to effect your thought patterns externally.

Well no, i am not in USA. Nor would i ever want to be.

And well all i got to say is, if the chip is mandatory, i choose prison or worst then to have an implant inside of me.

I'm not getting one, plain and simple.

I've never been on a plane, and have no plans to, and I could care less about entering any legal or federal building.

They can kiss my ass.

You can reject the National Id if you want to, they will not throw you in jail for it. You will just be unable to enter Federal Buildings or board a plane, and probably later on open a bank account, rent a car, take a loan, rent a room, or get a job.

HOWEVER, to all of the above, you already require a government issued form of identification, therefore I do not see the big deal. If you dont want the RFID, throw it in the microwave and fry it. You still got the card, but the chip will be uselss and therefore no tracking.

THERE IS NO PROVISION REQUIREING YOU TO MANDATORY CARRY ON PERSON AT ALL TIMES OF DAY FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE. If you want to go for a walk or bike ride, leave it at home and noone will track you, or just fry the chip if you feel like carryig ID.

I have no problem with getting this ID, but I am going to fry the chip. When it dont work, ill just tell them I dont know what happened.

Frankly, the sooner the NAU is implemented the better. Once all the biggots and racists and supremecists are identified, the sooner we can lock them all up and co-exist in peace.

This is an extremely disturbing trend....but not unexpected. Recently, I heard a news clip(I dont recall where, I will search for it and post it as soon as I have time) that spoke of a new project that the US government is aspiring to. It involved sending a wireless router into space to enable a worldwide wireless network.

I fail to see how it's disturbing, unless you want to live in a world where technology and government don't exist.

The project you are thinking of is an experiment by the military, yes they are putting a router
in orbit, but this is not for some sinister plan, well I suppose if you hate the military and
anything to do with it it would be, but anyways the point of it is to allow for better communication
between the military, that is a scientist in Los Alamos can send a new software package
directly to the soldier, rather than having to send it to several places just to get it to the soldier,
it's also meant to improve communication between the military command centers and field units.

The entire system is only just now being tried, and a single experimental router in orbit is
hardly the NWO trying to high-jack your nervous system using technology.

I'm curious about how the Christians on this thread respond to this idea and to the idea of RFID chips.
I'm talking about the "mark of the beast", etc. It seems this would be a violation of their religion, and understandably so. I'd really like to hear from Christians as to how you think about this.

Originally posted by forestlady
I'm curious about how the Christians on this thread respond to this idea and to the idea of RFID chips.
I'm talking about the "mark of the beast", etc. It seems this would be a violation of their religion, and understandably so. I'd really like to hear from Christians as to how you think about this.

The National ID itself, even with an embeded chip, does not fit the profile of the mark of the beast. However, if it should ever become mandatory to receive a chip directly embeded under the skin in order to buy/sell, etc, that i would look on as the proverbial mark, and I would not take it. I don't think that day is very far off, either. Just my two cents.

Technically, the mark of the beat, according to Christian mythology has to fill two requirements.

1. It has to have the number 666 in it.
2. It has to be on the left arm/wrist or on the forehead.

Originally posted by Maverickhunter
I disagree.. George H Bush used the phrase "new world order" in one of his speeches and the term the New World Order was created after the Communists started to try to protect their power base. They wanted world global control and wanted to plot the downfall of the US in order to protect their natural security. The term has been in use for a long time, actually. Do a search for "new world order" on google and then search for "george H Bush" and then you'll see a lot of speeches about the first gulf war. DO SOME RESEARCH BEFORE YOU CALL US PARANOID.

Wow, well I guess you just solved the whole mystery huh? Because George Bush Sr. said the words "new world order" that obviously means that there is a secret world government out to get us all right?

Do you really believe that if George H Bush was involved in a secret world government he would openly talk about it on television? Yea, that makes a lot of sense...

Where is the "100% proof" that the governments of the West are acting in the best interests of the people then?

IMO, anyone who actually believes they do has not done enough research...

They keep banging on in the UK that ID cards will reduce identity theft for example - fact is, that if you narrow ID down to only ONE form, then identity theft actually becomes easier - crack that one form and you're done. More info about why ID cards are not what they're made out to be can be found at:

no2id.net...

I agree that the ID card plan is probably set up to fail in order to bring in the Verichip solution.

I found it useful to read Orwell's "1984" for an indication of the future, and marvelled at the flavours that already exist today - it also includes a superb account of why the 'system' is set up as it is....

I felt that these links might be interesting for those curious about the history behind the Real ID Act and the national ID card debate. In addition to this, since 9-11 (and prior to it,) there have been repeated attempts to create ongoing data mining programs. The tenacity and redundancy with which they have been attempted is pretty remarkable. Every time one failed, was shot down by congress, or was found to simply not work, a new one has been created. Here are some examples since 9-11, along with the National ID Card links (more or less in chronological order):

Polls indicated Americans actually favored National ID Cards following the September 11 Attacks:
archives.cnn.com...

In July of 2002, CNN reported concerns over Operation TIPS (Terrorism Information and Prevention System):
archives.cnn.com...
archives.cnn.com...

In November 2002, congress rejected National ID cards and terminated the TIPS program, a data mining operation:
www.aclu.org...

The same month, CNN reported concerns over another data mining program, the Total Information Awareness program (later renamed to Terrorism Information Awareness):
archives.cnn.com...

In October of 2003, CNN reported concerns over another data mining program, the MATRIX program or "Multi-state anti-terrorism information exchange." This came shortly after congressional dismantling of the Total Information Awareness program:
www.cnn.com...

By March 2004, support for MATRIX was dwindling, with states pulling out including New York:
www.cnn.com...

By July 2004, the government was rethinking another data mining program called CAPPS II (successor to CAPPS,) which would have used ticket purchases, hotel reservations, and other financial transactions and travel information to gauge terror threat level on a passenger by passenger basis. The program was drawing heavy privacy related criticism, and was supposedly being curtailed:
www.cnn.com...

However, the Department of Homeland Security instead chose to reshape and "reimagine" the CAPPS program in another form:
newstandardnews.net...

In December 2004, congress passed an Intelligence Reform Bill establishing the position of National Intelligence Director and requiring new standards for DMV licenses and birth certificates: www.cnn.com...

In May 2005, the Real ID Act was passed, prompting fears of National ID card creation:
www.cnn.com...

What the Real ID Act entailed around that time:
news.com.com...

The Secure Flight Program, similar in many respects to CAPPS, also met with criticism and review as a potential data mining system:
www.washingtonpost.com... (Note: I'm not sure what the fate of this particular experiment was, but now there is a Registered Traveler Program which many view as a neutered form of these data mining initiatives whereby registered travelers receive perks such as not having to remove their shoes prior to boarding, shorter waits, etc.)

In 2006, this article suggested that implementation of the Real ID Act might be economically and organizationally unfeasible on a state by state basis:
www.pcworld.com...

Despite those challenges, this thread's OP and other recent articles emphasize that its implementation appears to be a definite goal of the federal government, whether states like it or not. It also seems clear that the federal government seeks to conduct data mining in some form, given the sheer tenacity with which it has pursued that goal in so many forms.

It occurs to me that it would not be difficult to incorporate debit cards, credit cards, ID cards, medical records numbers, etc. into a single RFID chipped card, and then sell the idea to the public that terrorists used fake versions or stolen versions of such cards to carry out a new major attack. Thus, the only "safe" means of using these new "all in one" RFID devices would to implant them. Making it mandatory would likely cause enormous social upheaval, but making them seem attractive and convenient while offering perks or benefits to those who readily adopt the new system would likely sway many.

I'm not talking about a "mark of the beast," as I myself am not religious (though I can see the parallels,) however I see the potential for changes in our society that I would be less than happy about to say the least. Coupled with a persistent data mining system, everyone could become akin to processes running on a metaphorical computer.

Originally posted by iori_komei
Technically, the mark of the beat, according to Christian mythology has to fill two requirements.

1. It has to have the number 666 in it.
2. It has to be on the left arm/wrist or on the forehead.

That is not "technically" correct, iori. 1. The number 666 is used in scripture to identify the name of the Anti-Christ: " Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six. (Revelation 13:18) 2. It is the right hand or forehead: "And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads. And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name" (Revelations 13:16). So, "technically" you would have the option of either the mark or the "name" of the Anti-Christ or his " number" - 666.
It definitely reads as if you have three distinctive marks or whatever.

Just trying to keep the facts straight. :

this will pass and those who will not take it will be killed, AGAIN ANYONE NOT GOING TO ABIDE BY THIS RULE WILL BE KILLED AT THE HANDS OF THE US SOLDIERS AND THE US GOVERNMENT...

My source - i knew this was coming and I know the future, the Holy Bible is my source and what is happening and will happen is happening today, tomorrow, etc..

Soon everyone will be required to put a mark on their right and and forhead to even buy food, sell, etc... and those who don't take this as well, will be killed...

Originally posted by Where2Hide2006
This national ID is planned to fail, in order to bring about the only solution remaining...the Verichip. This is just the next step in the planned chipping every us citizen.

I don't think that they could really force you to be chipped could they?I mean short of dragging you away and performing surgery on you, and I really think that even though a lot of people act like sheep, if we start talking about forced microchipping of humans there would be a HUGE outcry.

Originally posted by Stormrider
(Revelation 13:18) 2. It is the right hand or forehead: "And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads. And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name" (Revelations 13:16). So, "technically" you would have the option of either the mark or the "name" of the Anti-Christ or his " number" - 666.
It definitely reads as if you have three distinctive marks or whatever.

Just trying to keep the facts straight.

:

Oh man, I feel stupid now, I meant right, I even looked at my right arm, I suppose I should
be more awake before I start typing.