He who receives the mark of the beast on his head or hand will not be saved. I for one will be eating nuts and berrys, flicking off the cars as they drive by in there suicidal ignorance.

Originally posted by Azathoth
Since the invention of the credit card, we've had a way of "being" tracked. I've had a governement issued ID with a chip in it since 1997. It's only use then was to go to the gym and the base would get stats on gym useage. The new government ID cards the have the RFID chips in them carry some pretty good features. They can contain your medical history, PKI certificates to allow you access to networks, and certificates that allow you access to government locations. I just don't see why people are so paranoid. Maybe it's because I've worked in the Intelligence community or that I've never really been bothered by it. In my opinion, the only people who should be worried about a national ID is the ones that have reasons to worry about (i.e Illegal activities).Now all they need is some biometrics on it.

-Aza

its not that anyones afraid of anything but tyranny, hitler, mass sweeps and death camps. All this will be easily attainable when people have something they cant remove. besides the LAW was intended as a guide, not a tool of oppression and force. So Every government is living a lie, and creates that which it fights. I.E. your countries are all a joke before infinite wisdom and peace of mind, which i have attained. biatch.

[edit on 30-5-2007 by mastermind77]

I've read through the thread, and find that there is a lot missing from the argument.

When you build a fence, you think it's to keep stuff out, but really, it's about keeping things in. A dog, cat, kids, etc.

When you demand your Citizens get a National ID card, you're supposedly trying to figure out who is here legally, and illegally.

When you have a government who will not enforce the laws already on the books, what good is new legislation? What good is it to give people who are already derelict in their duty, more power?

By simply enforcing the laws on the books, we never would have had 9-11. People think that there was this group of super smart, super lucky terrorists, there wasn't. There was a bunch of people who didn't do their job. Remember, a carload of them was pulled over, stopped, checked out, and let go.

Think about it folks, think about it really hard. Is a National ID card going to protect you from terrorism, when the cops and Homeland security already know where and who the bad guys are?

Another thing people fail to mention about the card, is that it's a SMART card. It's not passive technology. It is meant to be not only your ID card, but your Debit, and Credit Cards. It's supposed to be your proof of insurance. A means to buy and sell.

When you get your new fangled ID Card, it will also serve as your passport too, and guess what that means? If the government or some law enforcement agency has a problem with you, they can take your money, stop you from traveling, and literally # you in ways you haven't imagined and you will have no recourse to stop it what so ever.

The PRIMARY and MOST IMPORTANT REASON this thing is being given to the American People, is about making sure people are paying taxes. It's about revenue generation. This card will be tied to everything you own, and on a whim, you can have everything you own taken from you. Technically, you don't own anything in this country anyway.

The ID card will make your processing into one of two groups infinitely easier too. Unfortunately, there will be so many counterfeit cards, that they'll soon demand you be chipped. They've chipped your pets, they want to chip your kids, and soon, they'll want to chip you.

When that day comes folks, you will officially be cattle. You are cows right now, but once you're cataloged, counted, and chipped, you will officially cease to be human, and be cattle.

The pro government people think that the government is their friend. Of course they do, they're probably either paid by your tax dollars, or are on some kind of assistance. They dare not bite the hand that feeds. They'd rather sell you out, than stand up for what is right, just and Constitutional.

We have a government rife with treason, and yet people do nothing because they're sheep. They do nothing because they care more for what is on television, than their own freedom, and by this very fact they have the government they deserve. To be ruled by betrayers, traitors, and despots, is the reward for apathy, and indifference to your duty as an American Citizen.

This country stopped being America when the people stopped participating and caring for their rights and freedoms.

There is no doubt that they will win on this one because so much of the population is stupid or too apathetic to get out of its own way. I hope they choose to chip people. It wouldn't be long before (illegal) portable reader/reprogrammers became available from patriot techno-wizards and organised crime.

Imagine the fun of going into an elevator or football crowd and surreptitiously reprogramming lots of chips to show that they are the local cat house madam, or the chief of police or whoever's got the best RBI this year. You could reprogram your own chip so you become an undercover agent for homeland security or a wanted fugitive. If you were a fugitive, you could go into a shopping mall and so set off the fugitive alarm, reprogram your chip back to yourself and watch the fun as the slime runs ragged trying to locate the non-existent fugitive. You could also program a lot of people so one fugitive comes in but twenty go out.

The PTB would not be able to resist controlling female only area doors based on the sex parameter stored in the chips. I apologise to the ladies on the forum but wouldn't it be fun to reprogram the gender of a lot of chips to male and watch the crossed leg antics when the toilet doors refused to open?

Or the best fun. Reprogram the chips of people with high-security jobs to someone who fits the profile for home-grown terrorist and get them arrested and cavity searched when they turn up for work.

So far I've been talking about practical jokes and civil disobedience. Think about this ladies - you are on the subway going home and some twelve year old loses his balance and grips you over the chip site as he stops himself from falling. He apologises profusely and you tell him that it is OK. He turns over his reader to his older brother and later that night the brother and his friends are in your bedroom...........
Or the bailiffs turn up on your door demanding payment for the BMW you bought six months ago. They have irrefutable evidence from your chip ID that it was definitely you who took the car. They take a lien on your income.....

The ridiculous thing is that one of the oldest ID security measures is still one of the best and modern technology has made it infallible - your signature. With the provision of appropriate technology, people with a reason to legitimately require to confirm your identity can do so anywhere and anytime. The reason why the PTB does not want to use signature recognition is because it requires you to participate and cannot be done in secret. Chip reading, smart ID sensing, biological measurement, retinal or iris scanning can all be done without the individual's knowledge and this is what they want. They do not want this for your or community protection, they want it to spy on everyone.

The secret service is currently pushing for the fingerprinting and DNA sampling of children. They claim it is to aid in their locating should they go astray and to provide positive identification should they need hospital treatment etc. Why is the secret service involved when its charter is to protect el presidente? Why is it being pushed in Florida? Is is because the big cohuna in Florida is another Bush? G'day Jeb!

Please - quit with the religious babble!! It's not only irrelevant to this thread - it's also insulting to peoples' intelligence!! I don't beleive in the Tooth Fairy or Santa Claus either - but if I did, I'd keep it to myself...If you have something related to the topic worth saying....then say it.

Yawn......has this ANYTHING to do with the topic?? Is superstisious fear now considered intelligent debate????

Over here in New Zealand (where we have this drivers license ID) we had the former advocate for our kind of thinking caught out when it became clear that his govt department was going to put a chip in the card going out to all the old people. And all the opposition parties in the house of representatives told him so.
But what is really scarey is out passport which is machine readable.
It can have an A4 worth of information and anyone silly enough to visit USA or travel to Europe through USA gets all this information downloaded as soon as the US authorities get their hands on the document.

But it gets worse; take the case of the Indian man who wanted to send some money home to his father in India and used a locally based American company to transmit the money to India.... so why couldn't his father recieve it ?
Well because someone in homeland security in Faraway America decided that the name of this man was the same as a terrorist so his dad lay dying in India because God knows why some twit in a far away country had made a typically silly decision violating New Zealand Law; Interantional Law. (should we now worship Homeland Security and call them god?)

So what harm can all this information gathering do?

. . . quit with the religious babble!

There are INTRINSIC folks for whom their spirituality and orientation is merged with all that they are and with all that they observe and have to do with. Their spirituality doesn't just bring meaning to their life--it is their life and saturates their life with all the best meaning they experience. They live their spirituality as best they can, earnestly, productively, kindly, generously, lovingly,

You are asking such folks to quit being who they are. Rather cheeky.


EXTRINSICS put their RELIGION on as a coat for manipulative purposes; psychodynamic purposes etc. They are ALMOST as bogotted, hostile, punative, harsh, abusive as the

INDISCRIMMINANTLY ANTI-RELIGIOUS folks are, statistically. BTW, they ARE THE MOST . . . those traits. And significantly more so than even the Extrinsics.

It may not always be easy to tell the differences if one is not well versed in the distinctions. And many times folks are more of a mixture than either or--though generally they are either/or.

Some folks are in transition from one to the other.

BTW, YOU SPOUT your RELIGION hereon every time you post . . . it's just not labeled in those terms and since it seems to be in the majority--you get more applause than screams.

Imagine the shoe on the other foot.

Here's the way to handle a new RFID drivers license/NID, YouAreGvmtProperty whatever they shove up out rears card. Get an aluminum or copper sleeve to keep it in. This will keep it from being read/programmed by remote scanners. Just remember that it may trigger the metal detectors in public buildings so prepare to place as watch your wallet/purse as you pass through.

I'm for tamper proof licenses and so for most state IDs are better. I just don't want what dHS wants us to have.

"Turn off the TV, put down the bong and get on with life people. You only have about 22000 days to make a difference. Getting scared over this stuff uses up many days of this time. People like Donald Trump, Bill Gates, Steve Fauset et-al are not spending time on this, look what they are doing instead" :lightbulb:

You know what... the easiest way to thwart these idiots is to just be genuinely cool...

What would they do with all the info in a world in which people controled themselves...

The awnser... freak out and die and stop spending time on it... the joy of dictatorships is they get passed on to the people who lived under them long enough...

what does a big brother mean... it means you have to actually be rightous for a few years... so what it's an absence of doing, not a doing...

what will they do start planting evidence everywhere... make completely moral things illegal... their own infrastructure would fall to that...

The Devil is powerless you see, we can only give him power... by acknowledgement... I say the american people seen as dismally obtuse to all this... are already on the right path, most of us actually just don't do anything wrong and are largely immune...

The war factor is another case though... but in reality, look how that backfires when the people aren't really behind it...

Americans, we haven't rose up screaming... for which we'd be imprisioned ... but we haven't supported it either... we know the elections are rigged, we know the beast is in the house... but unlike Germany 1937... we really aren't coming to diner either... lol how long can this last with noone joining the army? What will they do draft us? and then as deaths come and go... the disgusted end up in charge of the army...

We have all done too much dope here to be brainwashed by the draft...

So they give us our cards... mostly we will be reading them... and espite horror stories..most cops really don't seem to be very into busting thier nieghbors... Americans just aren't very Gung Ho... No kamikazee raising the head...

So take my card Paul my local cop who i went to JR high with... I know your an American...and by trade you just don't give a F... even the war on dope which might have merit... half these guys just let us go... and besides who needs illegal dope when health insurance is cheeper and the doctors a pusher?

It's all good they will FAIL, only our own fear gives them power... me I won't say a F'n word... half of us have to stay outside the cages to patrol, those they arrest... and I'll be cool to those in the cages...and the powers that be will grow old and die... real soon, they are already f'n old...

what can they do if you don't participate... absolutely nothing

LOl... who in the states hasn't already been before the judge for minor nonsense? Lol you get used to the apocolyptic fury after 1 go at it...

So you know my porn and I have to be honest about my sexuality and you know my bad habits and I have to be healthy, so you lock me up for a few weeks and I get out to make room for the next guy...

welcome to the hood America, it hasn't made a difference when it was minorities for the last 20 years it won't when it's everyone else...

the worst is the taking of kids... who lol, will hate them and seek you out anyway... the toughest price... they get you there via divorce, and mostly the kids come running home first chance they can breathe...

These kids... they aren't nazis lol, they are made hard... America will be freer then ever, we aren't a bunch of joiners... any race, any aspect, we are the refuse, the left over, the rebels they couldn't control in the first place...

they indoctrinate our children... and thier genes kick in... dad was a criminal, his dad was a criminal, his dad was a religous freedom guy, his dad was a pirate his dad was kicked out of some country for being free...

They can S M D

Originally posted by BO XIAN

. . . quit with the religious babble!

There are INTRINSIC folks for whom their spirituality and orientation is merged with all that they are and with all that they observe and have to do with. Their spirituality doesn't just bring meaning to their life--it is their life and saturates their life with all the best meaning they experience. They live their spirituality as best they can, earnestly, productively, kindly, generously, lovingly,

You are asking such folks to quit being who they are. Rather cheeky.


EXTRINSICS put their RELIGION on as a coat for manipulative purposes; psychodynamic purposes etc. They are ALMOST as bogotted, hostile, punative, harsh, abusive as the

INDISCRIMMINANTLY ANTI-RELIGIOUS folks are, statistically. BTW, they ARE THE MOST . . . those traits. And significantly more so than even the Extrinsics.

It may not always be easy to tell the differences if one is not well versed in the distinctions. And many times folks are more of a mixture than either or--though generally they are either/or.

Some folks are in transition from one to the other.

BTW, YOU SPOUT your RELIGION hereon every time you post . . . it's just not labeled in those terms and since it seems to be in the majority--you get more applause than screams.

Imagine the shoe on the other foot.

Happily, I'm not religeous. I was raised to think for myself - which, as a rational human being, is everyones responsibility today. Muslim fanatics, christian fanatics, jewish fanatics - they're all the same to me...superstitious fools.

Jimbo999

Ok, so I'm probably posting this a little late in the thread but I've been thinking about this Real ID and most of what I read on ATS is how it's "The mark of the beast". If you believe that then it's all fine and good but I felt I should state why every American citizen should appose this Federal ID.

There was always meant to be a distinction between the Federal Government and your local State Government. Our Founding Fathers feared, above all else, being subjects to another monarchy or otherwise totalitarian rule. The Federal Government is meant to have certain restrictions so that we don't all become subjects of a totalitarian Federal government.

Every US citizen should oppose the Real ID because if we give the Federal Government the power and control over the issuance of identification we take away that right from our State Government.

Take out your ID, look at what it says. It's issued by the state in which you live, it has the state's official seal and motto. That is because you are a citizen of the state in which you live and have a right to all the benefits and duties associated with it. If we are to accept the Real ID then we accept that we are now citizens of an over sized Federal Government and subject to all the requirements and obligations associated with such a position.

If we become citizens of this Federal Government then we are no longer citizens of the United States of America. We will be citizens of a bloated Federal Government that no longer seeks to protect our way of life.

If the government or some law enforcement agency has a problem with you, they can take your money, stop you from traveling, and literally # you in ways you haven't imagined and you will have no recourse to stop it what so ever.

Just like they can now with Fines, Home and conventional arrest and all other ways they punish criminals.

Happily, I'm not religeous. I was raised to think for myself - which, as a rational human being, is everyones responsibility today. Muslim fanatics, christian fanatics, jewish fanatics - they're all the same to me...superstitious fools.

AS has been demonstrated with solid sociological/psychological research . . .

your postings on this thread would be sufficient to classify you in the category of

INDISCRIMMINENTLY ANTI-RELIGIOUS . . . . AS your RELIGION

It's too late to deny it. You've outted yourself repeatedly and forcefully--just as your co-religionists typically do.

And, as I've noted elsewhere, that class--of INDISCRIMMINENTLY ANTI-RELIGIOUS--such religionists are far more harsh, punitive, bigoted, prejudiced etc. than authentic Christians or any other type of religionist--even than the EXTRINSIC religionists.

Your protestations will not convince any well informed professional. Your posts hereon--on this thread alone are sufficient to classify you rather conclusively.

Dont worry, Jimbo999. Im with you.

Have you ever considered Pastafarianism?

The Spaghetti monster loves all and requires only a sacrifice of Spaghetti and beer, which you eat and drink. But only when you remember too.

If we become citizens of this Federal Government then we are no longer citizens of the United States of America. We will be citizens of a bloated Federal Government that no longer seeks to protect our way of life.

Gotta star your excellent post.

INDEED.

Actually, they want us to become citizens of NORTHAM . . . then citizens of the GLOBAL TYRANNY. Nationhood has already begun to be increasingly trashed by design.

The frog in the bucket is getting warmer . . . but the masses are still swimming more or less happily, blindly, zoned-out-ly.

Originally posted by Shadowflux
If we become citizens of this Federal Government then we are no longer citizens of the United States of America. We will be citizens of a bloated Federal Government that no longer seeks to protect our way of life.

I think I posted something similar back on this thread months ago, glad to see I am not the only person who gets this factor of the Nation ID issue. The last thing that anyone here needs to do is give the Federalists more power then they already have. We have seen first hand how well the Federal Government looks out for the little guy in times of trouble, such as Hurricane Katrina. I think I mentioned this somewhere above as well, that the Federal Government overpowering the rights of individual states to vote on issues was the real reason behind the Civil War as most of the Southerners were not even land/slave owners to begin with.

The last thing that anyone here needs to do is give the Federalists more power then they already have. We have seen first hand how well the Federal Government looks out for the little guy in times of trouble, such as Hurricane Katrina.

INDEED.

All large organizations--especially bureaucracies are inherently tyrannical. The little guy inherently is seen as a minor cog in their glorious machine.

At best, they are addicted to watching out for THEMSELVES--THEIR WORSHIPPED BUREAUCRACY . . . their . . .

!!!!POWER!!!!

over the little people. Witness Shrillery's public declaration: WE ARE GOING TO TAKE THINGS AWAY FROM YOU AND GIVE THEM TO OTHERS (especially money!). Others--read--there MORE LOYAL STOOGES.

Witness their agenda to destroy masses of people down to a world population of 200,000,000 to 500,000,000 depending on the globalist being cited.

Witness their push to have a world tax to further add to the burden of the bloated bureaucracy.

Witness their determination to even take the rearing of one's children away from parental influence as early as possible.

They really do think of themselves as Jr gods. And that only because they know the Anti-Christ is a fierce senior god to their puny-ness.

They are the most gullible of idiots . . . . the father of all lies enjoys their blindness but will, in the end, show them no mercy either.

But at least, while we have a semblence of voting invluence, we can still go on record against the worst of them . . . and . . . Shrillery is that.