What's happening to American Morality?

I see where the last poster is going there, and would have to agree with the (possible implied) sentiments

Originally posted by bridgebrain
This was the catholic church (I'm pretty sure, correct me if I'm wrong.) They had gained too much power and feared losing it. At that point, they lost the entire point of their faith, which is that God is THE authority, not the pope, not the pastor, not nuns. He decides who is a heretic and gives us a fairly clear set of directions to recognize one.

To base morals off of any faith is doomed to falter and fail. And if we are assuming that god is the authority on morality then we are expecially prone to failure...seeing as god has not yet made it clear what is morally correct.

If you are, at this point, considering using the bible as a source for argument (literal word of god and all that) then I am sorry to say that we must start stoning our disobedient children and killing those who do not 'keep holy the sabbath'.

Originally posted by bridgebrain
As to the subject, it is a planned crash of everything. The general moral way of life is declining because it has been designed to.

Could you please elaborate? I have an inkling of your meaning but I do not want to talk out of place.

Originally posted by bridgebrain
Also, as to whether religion has anything to do with it, even if it has lost the point, a finite religious system gives a point of reference for people to base their morals on.

That may be true to a point. However, one should not use religion as a literal reference for morality.

History (as well as our present) has shown us that religious doctrine is usually underwritten with biased, bigotry and a 'disapproval' of certain lifestyles/individuals.

Why should an institution which tends to lace its belief system and teachings with such non moral ideals be the benchmark for morality?

Originally posted by bridgebrain

And just WHO DEFINES Morality?

Without it, people can define right as anything they want. If they can't say that it is wrong to steal a candy bar from Wal-mart, what is the limit that is set? People, by nature, push their limits, but what if a limit isn't set.

Ah, but morality does and can exist without religion. In fact, there are some 'moral issues' which are issues because religion says they should be (ie: the argument that homosexuality is wrong because the bible says it is wrong).

Originally posted by bridgebrain
1. Remove religion from school, crime in school goes up.

And where is this stated? I attended a private high school which was religious in nature and it was widly known that if you wanted drugs you talked to the kids in my school. Religion was present (the only class you needed to take all four years was Theology) and yet crime was more present within our halls then the halls of the public schools where religion was not allowed.

Originally posted by bridgebrain
2. Add soft porn access to standard tv, teen pregnancy, rape, irresponsible parents, pre-marital sex, and other thing start going up at rates previously unheard of.

The correlation between hard core pornography and rape is sketchy at the very best and still disputed by the experts.

As far as pre-marital sex is concerned: Why is this a moral issue? It is because certain religions teaches that it is. Pre-marital sex, as long as the individuals are mature enough to handle the act physically and mentally, is the same thing as marital sex. A ring does not make one morally reprehensible and the other a blessed act sanctioned by god.

The 'never do it or else' stance which is instilled in maturing adolescents is, if anything, harmful to ones sexual practice. There is a stigma attached to a natural act and 'moral dilemas' are needlesly attached to it...and defended by those who believe that because religion says its immoral that it must be immoral.

Originally posted by bridgebrain
3. Plato's Republic is the base of the current public school system, so the children are taken by the state, and away from the family, which is really bad.

For 8 hours a day average. The school system, and the 'away from home' mentality is an important time in a childs development. Social skills and interaction are learned within the schools and away from the family.

...And I often wonder why nearly every 'home schooled' child that would come to my highschool were inept at social interaction amongst their peers.

Originally posted by bridgebrain\
4. Junk goes into our food, death rates, adhd, diabetes, cancer, etc. And why, because the FDA has chosen to release drugs into our food to perpetuate the declining health, and in the process boosting the sales of pharmaceuticals, all for money. All to slow down our response time to crisis and our willingness to put up a fight for our rights.

Without arguing the facts of the statement: What does it have to do with a moral decline? A loss of willingless to 'fight' is not a witness to a moral decline.

As I have stated previously in this thread: It would seem that morality is on the up-swing within our nation. Pre-marital sex, homosexuality, divorce and other non-issues are not indications of moral decline.

What's happening to American Morality?

I don't see anything going wrong with "American Morality" is not different than the Morality of any other country in the world.

In todays society morality is controlled by laws . . . that dictate how much inmoral you can be.

But as everything that has to do the human nature "morality" is nothing new and neither "inmorality" man has been playing with both since the begining of time.

Is just that now get to see the inmoral part of the human nature in our daily news like a disease plaguing humanity.

Actually is not worse than 1000 or 2000 years ago when laws were not there to control human nature.

As an outsider looking in, I'd just like to say that the Americans that post online and the tourists/residents in Sydney that I've talked to and met are very nice respectful people.
I can name quite a few countries who are more "immoral" than America and Americans in general. People just seem to want to put the boot into America at the moment. It seems likes it's almost a cool thing to do unfortunately.

I think people use the war in Iraq and what your celebrities get up to (Britney Lohan Hilton going commando and doing coke and the rest)
to make that the examples of the whole of America going to hell in a handbasket. I know some people here who do this.

I refuse to do this as I've met some great Americans who are very respectful and moral human beings. They are great ambassadors for your country when abroad.

Originally posted by Knight783
I cant help but be a little alarmed at the possible context of this thread, maybe its the Ayryan name!

Now c'mmon...you are kidding right? Please dont look at Aryan as a stand alone name...please be sensitive to the word 'Watch' which makes it AryanWatch...Now it's up to you to comprehend the meaning of it.

Originally posted by marg6043
What's happening to American Morality?

I don't see anything going wrong with "American Morality" is not different than the Morality of any other country in the world.

Consider this - In America, the crime clock continues to click: one murder every 22 minutes, one rape every 5 minutes, one robbery every 49 seconds, and one burglary every 10 seconds. And the cost of crime continues to mount: $78 billion for the criminal justice system, $64 billion for private protection, $202 billion in loss of life and work, $120 billion in crimes against business, $60 billion in stolen goods and fraud, $40 billion from drug abuse, and $110 billion from drunk driving. When you add up all the costs, crime costs Americans a stunning $675 billion each year.


In addition to the financial cost is the psychological cost of devastated lives and a loss of security. In recent months, even apathetic Americans have been shaken from their false sense of security as they have seen criminals invade nearly every sanctuary where they felt they were safe: their cars (James Jordan); their public transit (the Long Island Rail Road murders by Colin Ferguson); and even their bedrooms (the abduction of Polly Klaas).

Now you might want to reconsider...

Situation is perfect for what you really do. Let me explain. People mimic others and program themselves all the time. You are free to create Heaven or Hell. If you have mostly idiotic programming on TV your kids and yourself will act as idiots most of the time.

When you go to war and kill 1 million people there for some more profits, well you will get some of the 'karma' back and so on. Even without karma you will get you daily programming of violence and pain and horror, so you will soon reach apathy, depression, eat too much, become angry and in general unhappy.

All this is easy to solve, but right now you are too incapable to solve anything. You need someone who can lead you out of this mess, not gestapo retards who want to microchip you like cattle and send you to another war.

This applies to EU too, not just USA.

Consider these statistics compiled by professor Morgan Reynolds (Texas A&M University) concerning burglary:

500,000 burglaries take place each month
250,000 of these are reported to the police
35,000 arrests are made
30,450 prosecutions take place
24,060 are convicted
6,010 are sent to prison; the rest paroled
Of the 500,0000 burglaries, only 6,000 burglars went to jail! And if this 1 percent effectiveness ratio isn't disturbing enough, professor Reynolds found that the average time served was only 13 months.

There goes the state control...

I think a major part of the undercurrent here is our inability to defend ourselves in schools. I'm only 35 but when I was in school, if someone on the playground was bullying anyone we could call him out and take care of it so it stopped. Now you can't do that anymore.

When I was a kid it was OK for a parent to smack you for acting out. Now that's highly looked down on and the gov't wants to make it illegal.

These examples, and others, lead to a more self centered generation. A generation that cares little for others and depends on authority figures to protect them. Then, when the authority figures cant be there every moment, the new generation feels let down and thinks they can take things into their own now thoroughly inexperienced hands. These folks, i think, go to immoral extremes to "show them"...

If we were allowed to defend moral behavior today, from the beginning of our education, not only would there be less immorality from our peers- we would have these experiences as building blocks in our own thought processes.

These examples, and others, lead to a more self centered generation. A generation that cares little for others and depends on authority figures to protect them. Then, when the authority figures cant be there every moment, the new generation feels let down and thinks they can take things into their own now thoroughly inexperienced hands. These folks, i think, go to immoral extremes to "show them"...

I think you hit the nail on the head This is exactly what I meant when I talked about the disintegrating families and family values.

I don't see such a decline in morality, and lets not forget some of the greatest massacres in the history of humankind have been carried out in the name of religion. What is happening is that everyday humanity is finally being broadcasted to a greater audience. There are no differences between what happened before to what is happening now. Statistically, there has actually been a decline of violent crime in the U.S., so I don't know where you pessimistics are getting your information from, because it's certainly not from official sources. I believe the U.S. is actually making progress, not only from within from outside as well. I'm more than content with the efforts of this administration. It's a shame not everyone can see their achievements.

Pessimist? Who? Not me...I have never been...But if the ostrich goes and hides it's head in the sand it doesn't become dark. Does it?

Statistically, there has actually been a decline of violent crime in the U.S.,

Who says?

Yet gut-wrenching as these high-profile cases are, they don't tell the whole story of sex offenders in America. They don't reflect the surprisingly good news: Sex crimes against children have dropped dramatically in the last decade.

www.usatoday.com...

The other major U.S. crime report is the Federal Bureau of Investigation's Uniform Crime Reports (UCR), which also has shown a dramatic fall in the U.S. crime rate over the past 30 years. Since 1994, the UCR has recorded a drop of more than one third in violent crime. (Data for 2004 have not yet been released.) The UCR collects information on crimes and arrests reported by law enforcement authorities to the FBI.

usinfo.state.gov...

I'm not an ostrich, nonetheless it would be better than becoming another chicken little.

I'm pretty sure the murder rate is up from the 1950's. But progress has been made since the 1980's in that department.

1950 4.6

1980 10.2

2004 5.5

Originally posted by spines

I am forced to ask this, and I hope you do not take offense at my assumption:

The 1960s were, as popularly noted, the years of the 'sexual revolution' within the United States (especially amongst college students). Is a more liberal mind set concerning sexuality a moral issue in your opinion?

You mention the 80s as well, another time of fast money and sex. Once again, is a more liberal mind set concerning sex a moral issue in your opinion?

To be honest with you, sex didn't even come into my mind when I made the post. I am not old enough to say a lot about the 60s, all I know about it is what I have read and been told by others who had lived in that era. Namely my father who always said that the 1960s was the ruination of the youth of this country.

However, I am old enough to remember the mid and late 1980s,at least somewhat. It seems to me that there was a general disgust amongst the moral majority during that period at the direction society was heading. In the 1990s, that disgust turned into indifference. Basically, at least it seems to me, that people threw their hands in the air and said, "To hell with it. I can't do anything about what others are doing."

I think that particular attitude has contributed to moral decline by silently condoning immoral actions.

Sex really never entered into the equation in my mind.

[edit on 11-5-2007 by SpeakerofTruth]

SpeakerOfTruth - Yes thats kinda.
I never think of Sex while I write about philosophy or Moral decay of a civilization.
But hey? what that all about?

America has been a franchise for the European elite since day one. Every political /social advancement or decline has been well orchestrated. The family unit has been the target now for some 40 years. Just check the AOL/MSN home page on the staggering divorce rate!!!!!. The civil rights movement, the women's movement, political correctness, tolerance were all formented and preplanned events to drive the family and general morality down. It's ultimately about $$$$$'s. We make too much money now. China now stands at the ready to become the new manupulated economic world power. It's funny how GW claimed that Al Queda hated us for our freedoms because that's exactly how the elites feel about the American middle and upper middle class.
You've got to look beyond the veil, we as a citizenry control nothing in the big picture. Take the word reality. It's derived from latin and subsequently from the spanish word real as in realm. That which is related to the crown or king. So, think of how easily people are fooled if they in fact use the word reality to describe their supposed consciousness when the word literally means 'what the king believes'

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
To be honest with you, sex didn't even come into my mind when I made the post. I am not old enough to say a lot about the 60s, all I know about it is what I have read and been told by others who had lived in that era.

[...]

Sex really never entered into the equation in my mind.

Alright, well then what were/are you reffering to? You still haven't given a clear answer and I am still curious.

Originally posted by AryanWatch
Consider this - In America, the crime clock continues to click: one murder every 22 minutes, one rape every 5 minutes, one robbery every 49 seconds, and one burglary every 10 seconds. And the cost of crime continues to mount: $78 billion for the criminal justice system, $64 billion for private protection, $202 billion in loss of life and work, $120 billion in crimes against business, $60 billion in stolen goods and fraud, $40 billion from drug abuse, and $110 billion from drunk driving. When you add up all the costs, crime costs Americans a stunning $675 billion each year.

I feel compelled to point out that crime and morality are not mutually exclusive.

A nations moral state and a nations crime rate should not be viewed as one and the same. Furthermore, you obviously are talking from a source but do not provide any link or citation. I would like to see where this information came from.

If we were to assume that crime and morality go hand in hand (like you seem to be implying): You supply an average and not any indiaction of an upward swing statistically.

Originally posted by AryanWatch
Now you might want to reconsider...

Hmm, I would think that maybe you should be reconsidering your position. You intitially stated that the decline of morality had to do with:

+An isolated incident of rape - Incidental experiences do not bear upon a nations morality as a whole.

+The fact that we are 'disintigrating into seperate units' - This is the natural swing of group dynamics. Social/economic grouping and finding like minded individuals to associate with is a natural tendency which helps us better participate within any given society. This nation has never been collectivistic in nature; which is not immoral.

+Families not being together - The family dynamic is changing. The 'nuclear' family ideal is being replaced with mixed familes, single parents and families which do not include children. This is only a 'moral issue' to those who hold an inflated sense of morality.

+You state everyone 'preaching his/her own religion - This one baffles me. How is this a moral issue? People are disillusioned with 'main stream' religion and attempt to find a spiritual path which they can identify with and embrace. This seems to be yet another non-issue.

+Mockery of Jesus and Religion - To be blunt: So what? Jesus is just some guy, you know...

...Now it appears that you cite crime as our moral decline. Once again, the minoirty of action does not demonstrate a national morality. Non-issues, and now crime, seem to be the basis for this argument of moral decline. Reality and social change seems to be the rebuttal.

EDIT: Typo correction.

[edit on 5/11/0707 by spines]

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
I don't think the media plays a very big role in a person's actions. I think it has more to do with upbringing than it does with media or any of the other excuses people try to bring to the table.

It's all about personal responsibility, in my opinion. We are responsible for our own actions..

First off, I think there is good in every human being and morals are part of human emotion. I think the ability to make moral decisions will be with us always. It's the importance of these moral issues to the individual that become the problem.

I think media does play a big part in a person's actions. As too does the person's upbringing. A person with no religious upbringing has less of a chance of making the "right" decision because it's not been "drilled" into that person that This is right or This is wrong.

But, I think that the media plays a large role in the way of desensatizing it's audience and projecting issues that have no value whatsoever to mankind as a whole. To have values or morals is to hold something in high regard. When you're holding your appearance in the highest regard because you watch too much RealWorld what moral value is being represented? When you've watched people murder each other on television shows all your life, is it really such a big deal to steal something from the store?

but, I think that everything has a counter to it. I wasn't neccessarily brought up in a religious context, but I do hold my faith in the highest regard. Though my faith can't be classified by most modern religion. Also, I've been subject to as much television in my life as anyone else. But, I think it's the quality of the television at the proper time in one's life. I certainly wouldn't have been allowed to watch the Exorsist when I was 7 years old. At that time I was watching old reruns on Nick At Nite. I was raised on shows that had moral values back then ... like Donna Reed or My Three Sons. There are still shows out there that display moral value, but they're quickly becoming a relic of the past.

Fact is, we live in a selfish and vain society — selfishness and vanity has no place in a moral society.