ATS: Hitler fled to Arg. after war, says writer

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posted on Jan, 3 2004 @ 07:26 AM
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BUENOS AIRES, Argentina, Jan. 2 (UPI) -- An Argentine journalist in a new book claims that Adolf Hitler faked his suicide, escaped Russian capture and fled to South America after World War II.

 


Abel Bastis new book -- which Argentine news reports say is due on shelves next week -- alleges that Hitler and his mistress Eva Braun did not commit suicide in April of 1945, but rather fled by submarine to southern Argentina and lived for years in a small town called San Carlos de Bariloche some 750 miles southwest of the capital, Buenos Aires.

Titled "Bariloche Nazi Tour Guide," the book allegedly draws its conclusions on eyewitness testimonials, photographs and long-lost documents supporting Bastis theory.

Source
and another article




posted on Jan, 3 2004 @ 08:39 AM
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yeah, he became the drummer for The Monkeys didn't he?

He had the most recognisable face in the world, and he was also truly #ed so I really can't buy this conspiracy about him being alive.






[edit: removed censor circumvention]
Mod Edit: Profanity/Circumvention Of Censors – Please Review This Link.

[edit on 18-5-2007 by 12m8keall2c]



posted on Jan, 3 2004 @ 08:44 AM
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Normally I would say another guy who just wants some money for a made-up story. But I did googling for the town Hitler should have stayed and found this:

www.interpatagonia.com...

Normal photos for tourism. And how does it look? It looks like a clone of the swiss/austrian alps and then look at the architecture of the houses...Centro Cvico. This whole damn town looks like a spin-off of one SS-ruled town in the alps.

But maybe the official history on their site gives a light on that:



In 1901 a group of Swiss immigrants arrived, and thus an heterogeneous population started shaping, where people from different nationalities but with the same spirit of work and sacrifice were true pioneers in this territory so distant from big cities. Labor was the engine behind these colonists, and skilled labor was highly appreciated. In that sense, the activities performed by the shoe-maker, the blacksmith, and others, were of great importance for the consolidation of the town.
In 1902, there was an incipient group of houses in a natural forest, they were made of timber, and roofs made of larch tiles with a pronounced inclination, characteristic of these peculiar constructions. Chilotes, German, Swiss and Aboriginal people coexisted within this environment.


My guess would be, IF they moved to Argentinia then to this town, is pretty like home for them.



posted on May, 18 2007 @ 06:23 AM
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This is a topic I'm quite interested in... does anyone have any other clues as to the likelyhood of Hitler escaping to Argentina?



posted on May, 18 2007 @ 07:35 AM
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I'm calling BS on this one.


By 1970 the SMERSH facility (now controlled by the KGB) was scheduled to be handed over to the East German government. Fearing the possibility that Hitler's burial site might become a Neo-Nazi shrine, KGB director Yuri Andropov authorised a special operation to destroy the remains. On April 4, 1970 a Soviet KGB team (who had been given detailed burial charts) secretly exhumed the bodies and thoroughly burned them before dumping the ashes in the Elbe river.


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So if Hitler didn't die in Berlin who's ashes were dumped in the Elbe river ?
Anyone who done any reading on the Battle of Berlin would know that the odds of some one escaping and that's not including Hitler state of mind or his physical health.

There is the the possibility that Bormann escaped to South America but based on the evidence the most reasonable conclusion is that he also died in Berlin.



Bormann was declared dead, a statement condemned by London's Daily Express as a whitewash perpetrated by the Brandt government. West German diplomatic functionaries were given the official instruction: "If anyone is arrested on suspicion that he is Bormann we will be dealing with an innocent man."[8] In 1998, a test identified a skull as that of Bormann, using DNA from an unnamed 83-year-old relative.


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I think that the Allies would have noticed had a few U boats gone unaccounted for after the war.
If Uboats transported Hitler to Argentina what happened to the Uboats and the crews after they arrived ?

If someone wanted to do some genuine research and not just sell books they should look in to what happened to Heinrich Müller.



The West Germans investigated several reports of Müller's body being found and buried in the days after the fall of Berlin. None of the sources for these reports were wholly reliable; the reports were contradictory, and it was not possible to confirm any of them. The most interesting of these came from Walter Lüders, a former member of the Volkssturm, who said that he had been part of a burial unit which had found the body of an SS General in the garden of the Reich Chancellery, with the identity papers of Heinrich Müller. The body had been buried, Lüders said, in a mass grave at the old Jewish Cemetery on Grosse Hamburgerstrasse in the Soviet Sector. Since this location was in East Berlin in 1961, this gravesite could not be investigated, nor has there been any attempt to excavate this gravesite since the reunification of Germany in 1990.


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[edit on 18-5-2007 by xpert11]



posted on May, 18 2007 @ 08:01 AM
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Originally posted by xpert11 I think that the Allies would have noticed had a few U boats gone unaccounted for after the war.
If Uboats transported Hitler to Argentina what happened to the Uboats and the crews after they arrived ?


The Allies did take note of a number of U-boats missing after the war. The following thread...while discussing UFOs, refers to an American battle group sent to Antarctic waters after the war.
www.abovetopsecret.com...
Some say flying saucers...some say Nazis...some say Nazi flying saucers.

I've seen resources that hotly contest Hitler's death, showing what appears to be evidence of tampering with the 'existing' photos of his 'corpse'. But a cursory search will find plenty of evidence of German subs gone astray.
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fixed link



[edit on 18/5/07 by masqua]



posted on May, 18 2007 @ 08:54 AM
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The most reasonable assumption is that any of the unaccounted for U-boats were sunk by the allies or lost to accidents at sea.
Out of the 54 unaccounted for U-boats excluding the shorter ranges ones and ones lost outside of a already generous time frame could have transported Hitler based on the geographical location they went missing.

U-246
U-325
U-398
U-745
U-1021
U-1055

Forgive me if I have missed one it is nearly 2am.
None of the above U-Boats are listed as long range boats which would have been a logical choice for transporting Hitler across the Atlantic. Allied air cover and anti submarine measures meant that U-Boats often had a short life towards the end of the war.



Source
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[edit on 18-5-2007 by xpert11]



posted on May, 18 2007 @ 01:59 PM
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Abel Basti says in his book there are a few subs in the sand in Patagonia, in the nearest Atlantic bay to Bariloche.

There is apparently some sonar imaging of the area to back this up.

Plus of course U-977 ended up in Argentina - and U-530, the sub where the crew handed themselves over to Argentine authorities, floated right into Buenos Aires port - the crew were sent to the USA and interrogated for quite a while - the U-boats themselves were practically empty of cargo when searched by Argentines (who of course supported Hitler's Reich at the time of Peron).
This is what Wiki says:
--------------------------
[QUOTE=Wikipedia]
On July 10, 1945, the U-530 departed from Kristiansand, Norway, on March 3, with a complement of 54 men, under the command of Otto Vermouth, a young officer aged 24. After a failed attack on an Allied convoy off New York, the boat received a clear message ordering the surrender at the nearest allied base.

Curiously, in contrast with what you would expect from the rigid discipline of German military, the determination was taken by consensus.

Before entering port to surrender to the Argentinean authorities, Vermouth threw overboard the codes and crypto-machines, and discarded the 88-mm deck gun and torpedoes from U-530.

The boat had been launched in 1941, and during her operational life sank two merchantment ( the freighter Milos and the tanker Sunoil, also torpedoing and damaged another oiler, the Chapultepec) all of them in the course of 1943. The crew was immediately interned by a presidential decree and taken by bus to Buenos Aires.

But the case was not finished yet. On August 17, another U-boat, U-977 (commander Heinz Schaeffer) was surprised on the surface, off the naval port, by the minesweeper ARA Py and the submarine ARA Salta. A boarding party from the Argentinean boat took care of her German counterpart, and she was towed toward the military docks.

Contrary to Vermouth, Schaeffer released his U-boat intact, giving up to the Naval Authorities codebooks, crypto-machines, guns and torpedoes, as a good will gesture.

Schaeffer learned about the death of Hitler a few days after departing from Kiel.

Like the U-530, the chance of election was given to the crew to decide about their own fate.

After sailing for more than 100 days, Schaeffer had the Argentinean coast on sight. On August 22, U-977’s 31 men complement was also transported to the capital.

There was speculation about the submarine carrying some of the Nazi Regime's prominent figures, but according to the Canadian historian Ronald C. Newton, this proved to be just a legend born largely before the surrender of any German unit in Argentina.

Both commanders were interrogated, with the help of a young Argentinean sailor of German ancestry acting as interpreter, about the landing of personnel previous to the surrendering.

The analysis of the log (in the case of U-977) and the fuel consumption of U-530 left no extra time for the boats to have executed any suspicious activities before reaching Mar del Plata.

The German sailors as well as the submarines were finally turned over to the US Navy.[/QUOTE]
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Of course - if you were the leader of the Nazi party looking to flee, would you hop into a tired old VIIC class U-Boot, or would you take your chances in the newest XX1 class submarine instead?

There are at least 4 off the coast of Ireland, scuppered by the Allies after the war.



These, much like the jet plane operational in 1945 that supposedly whisked Hitler from Berlin, were part of a new wave of Nazi technology that would have been kept top secret from design to deployment.

An XX1 could easily have made it to Patagonia and back to Norway.

And don't forget the Japanese I Class Submarines, also capable of huge operational range and depth. Old A

[edit on 18-5-2007 by Arthur Fuxake]



posted on May, 18 2007 @ 02:09 PM
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Does it really matter, there are enough to fill his place anyway. People must think that the whole history of the human race just had one evil person.

At least 90% of people are evil just waiting to come out.

Whats that saying about glass houses.



posted on May, 18 2007 @ 07:49 PM
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Originally posted by andy1033
Does it really matter, there are enough to fill his place anyway. People must think that the whole history of the human race just had one evil person.


Well, at the time Andy, yes, a great many people saw Hitler as the sole embodiment of evil.
Hardly surprising when you see the factories he built to destroy millions of people, and the murderous influence he had on millions of men and women back in the early forties.

I think the wider issue here is that if he did survive the seige of Berlin, and escape to Argentina to die an old man, then he must have had a lot of help, not only from the Argentine authorities but from certain sections of the Allied forces.

If it can be proved that submarines landed and passengers disembarked in Patagonia at the end of the war, the political ramifications are huge.

There is no doubt that much trading went on between Nazi Germany and Argentina during the war, and of course plenty of eminent scientists working for Hitler suddenly found themselves whisked to the USA to work on biological warfare projects, rockets, and other technologies that the US could only dream of during WW2.

Not to mention the realistic possibility of seized "weapons-grade" Uranium from a Nazi u-boat on its way to Japan, confiscated and being used by the US mere weeks later to obliterate Nagasaki and Hiroshima.

Is it so hard to believe that *supposing* Hitler did escape the bunker, the Allies would have been too afraid to admit it to an already shell-shocked European public busy celebrating the fall of Nazism?

And with the greatest respect to the Russian contingent that might be reading this - remember it was Joseph Stalin, the mass murderer responsible for the deaths of approximately 40 million people, who was commanding the Russian forces who took Berlin and raped and pillaged their way to the Reichstag.

Are we to take his word for it, or the word of his generals, that Hitler's body parts were flown to Moscow - where they remain to this day, and even after the fall of the Iron Curtain have not been released to the West so thay they might be checked for DNA matches with surviving relatives of the little dictator?

The prospect of Hitler, in defeat, opting to spend his twilight years in a mock Germanic mansion hidden away in the sprawling hills and mountain ranges of Patagonia, rather than being dragged in front of the Nuremberg court rooms and hung symbolically like Saddam by people just as sadistic as he was, it is surely not that far fetched, given Hitler's power and stolen wealth, that he [I]could[/I] have achieved such a thing is perfectly plausable.



At least 90% of people are evil just waiting to come out.

Whats that saying about glass houses.


So what's your solution here? Just give up and let them get away with it?

Come on - surely the point of this website and the information exchanged therein is to free people from the notion that governments have our best interests at heart?

Even a tale as old as this, if proven to be correct, throws light on the dark decision making made by governments who are effectively running a large scale PR campaign to hide the facts.

We are being lied to on a grand scale about plenty of things, not just Hitler, and the effectiveness of the lies depend on the people being utterly ignorant to the facts.

I have an alternative proverb to your somewhat odd "90% of people are evil" statistic, and it is quite simple and certainly quite true.



“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil, is for good men to do nothing.”

Edmund Burke (Ireland, 1729 – 1797)


[edit on 18-5-2007 by Arthur Fuxake]



posted on May, 18 2007 @ 08:20 PM
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I recall reading that Stalin himself doubted, or at least pretended to doubt that Hitler had actually died in Berlin..........but had escaped to Spain, or been spirited to the US.

The 'remains' that were dumped into the river had been buried and reburied something like 8 times.......and then ground up with coal (or charcoal). Why do all that if the remains were really Hitler, and could be proved to be? More likely they were trying to hide any mistake they'd made in identification.

There are accounts that claim the dentist or his assistant, after identifying the charred bridge work as Eva's, later 'recalled' that the bridge work had not been installed in her mouth before she died........

A book that I read years ago .....( large, red binding, published before 1970), had a good deal about his dental work, and seems like it mentioned he'd had a double with the same work done, so that it would match his?? I've tried to find that book again, but so far no luck......does it sound familiar to anyone?



posted on May, 19 2007 @ 12:13 AM
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I don't remember that, however I do remember reading some pdf docs ages ago, FOIA stuff that detailed the allies search for Hitler - some of them definitely believed he escaped and was still alive.. no specific conclusions, but things like witness reports, etc.

I think the likelyhood of him escaping would have to be based on a psychological profile - did he ever consider defeat?

If you could get a criminal psychologist or four to do profiles on him, his pathology, you might be able to figure out if he was even capable of imagining his own defeat - and thus planning his escape.

If he *did* escape, what would the world's "most evil man" have done next?

Could you assume that he lived out a quiet, peaceful life, with no more politics or machinations? In an area decidedly non-aryan?



posted on May, 19 2007 @ 01:11 AM
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There probably isnt much point in having an criminal psychologist profile Hitler . There as been much debate about Hitler's physical and mental health. While there have been official diagnosis's but one can say for certain that Hitler's state of mind and physical health were far from good.

Frayed1 I assume you mean that Hitler's remains were reburied eight times before being dumped in the river ?



Waite, who authored an extensive psychohistory of Hitler, concluded that he suffered from borderline personality disorder, which manifested its symptoms in numerous ways and would imply Hitler was in full control of himself and his actions. Others have proposed he may have been schizophrenic, based on claims that he was hallucinating and delusional during his last year of life. If true, this might be explained by a series of brief reactive psychoses in a narcissistic personality which could not withstand being confronted with reality (in this case that he was not the "superman" or "savior of Germany" he envisioned, as his plans and apparent early achievements collapsed about him).


Source



posted on May, 19 2007 @ 01:41 AM
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If his mental state was that fragile as the war was ending, then if he didn't shoot himself, it must have been absolute Looney Tunes for the old fart spending two months submerged in the Atlantic.

I like to think of him in that sweaty submarine all that time, with the drone of the battery engines, worried an Allied destroyer or mine might blow him up at any moment, knowing he'll never see his beloved Deutschland again, knowing his dog was dead (they found the dog's body with no problem).

As to what he did if he reached Patagonia - I doubt he did much, having fled like an animal. News of his death would have sunk in across Europe, he had no armies nor influence and many of his officers had been all too eager to give away Nazi technology and plans in return for amnesty. He would have lived the remainder of his life knowing he was a coward who abandoned the Reich, which would certainly have taken its toll on his already questionable mental heath.

Remember he'd have been aware of the nuclear strikes on Japan within days of arriving, and as terrible as those weapons are, I think if I had my list of targets and Enola Gay ready to fly, the decision to turn Bariloche and the surrounding hills into glass, knowing it would wipe out all remaining trace of the top level Nazis who fled there would be a far easier target on ones conscience than a city of millions like Hiroshima.

Of course the other possibility is that he might have escaped Berlin, boarded a submarine, and halfway through the journey the submarine was destroyed, leaving him and Eva Braun at the bottom of the Atlantic Sea somewhere...



posted on May, 19 2007 @ 02:44 AM
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Maybe it was a German flying saucer that he escaped in and the whole war was just a ploy brought to us by the NWO people? I personally do not think he lived after the war but there is some fishy details as to how he died and there is a remote chance he faked his death. Its also troubling to know so many Nazi's were embraced for their talents by allies after the war so who knows what the elite had and have planned.



posted on May, 19 2007 @ 08:49 AM
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Originally posted by Inannamute
I think the likelyhood of him escaping would have to be based on a psychological profile - did he ever consider defeat?


That would be a good point in favor of the 'died in Berlin' side of the question.....even possibly the strongest point since we are without better forensics.

There was something of a profile done on Hitler, started during the early part of the war. The book, "The Mind of Adolf Hitler" by Walter Langer, details " a psychological report written in 1943 for the OSS" when "Wild Bill" Donavan was there.


Originally posted by xpert11

Frayed1 I assume you mean that Hitler's remains were reburied eight times before being dumped in the river ?



Yes, xpert, that's what I meant.......

I found a couple of diff versions of the 'tale', so to speak. That's why I mentioned the coal / charcoal variance. One version had the remains ground with coal, another with charcoal.....not quite a perfect match.

I also found differing versions of how many were buried in the bomb crater that was used as the first grave for the charred bodies. Some said two bodies were found, some said there were 11 buried in the crater behind the bunker.

What would he have done, or been able to do even if he did escape?? If the reports of his failing health and mind are true........he probably was something of a invalid that could be easily kept under wraps by a 'devoted' few......If the feeble old guy in the last videos are him and not a double.
( and on it goes....)



posted on May, 19 2007 @ 09:54 AM
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I have family in Argentina, moved there before, during and after the war. There were Nazi's in the streets openly saluting each other as they walked around, Peron was a fan of Hitler, Nazi mythologies and religion.

Could hitler have escaped to Argentina..of course. There were 1-2 million of Italians and Germans and Europeans fleeing to Argentina to rebuld their lives after WW2. U boats would unload their art treasures,m gold and valuables, it was an open secret.

when the war was alomst over, Argentina declared war on Nazi Germany, but kept taking in war criminals. anything is possible



posted on May, 19 2007 @ 10:37 AM
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Wow that town does look quite Bavarian.


I want to know what happened to Hans Kammler after the war? He was the SS officer in charge of the underground facility at Mittelwerk and supposedly oversaw high technology projects like anti gravity research


en.wikipedia.org...

This is supposedly the only known picture of him





[edit on 19-5-2007 by warpboost]



posted on Jul, 4 2012 @ 05:20 PM
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reply to post by Zion Mainframe
 


This book is more current, by Dunstan and Williams.

Although heavily criticized, these guys aren't the usual nazi ufo conspiracy theorists,

but mainstream (albeit military) journalists. I have almost no doubt that you can not

disprove Hitler didn't go to Argentina with Eva Braun and Herman Fegelein under

the auspices of Martin Borman (and where did he really go?) and Aktion Feuerland.

Stalin was convinced that Hitler was not dead. That in itself speaks volumes. The soviet

Red Army, along with a team of around 20 female doctors, were at the bunker first.

They didn't find identifiable remains. I would pay $1000 to anyone who can prove

that Hitler definitively died there. Perhaps this fact alone - that he escaped - may have

lead to our current world climate of fear and economic depravity at the hands of

oligarchs and their multinational corporations. Who knows.



posted on Jul, 4 2012 @ 05:24 PM
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reply to post by warpboost
 


My god! Kammler is at the crux of near every nazi ufo conspiracy.

And for rightful reasons. Right up there with Bormann, he was a high ranking

SS general in charge of the wonderwaffen special technology programs,

that moved underground with lightning speed after 1943 under the allied

bomber campaigns, using slave labor to mass produce V1's, v2's, and maybe

'die glocke' (the bell). If you find where he went, you'll either wind up dead,

or with the nobel peace prize.

Bet he went to Argentina, or Roswell.





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