Unknown ancient(sacred)geometry

Originally posted by Masonic Light
What you're basically asking is for Freemasonry to stop being Freemasonry, and become something else.

In reality, there are plenty of secular organizations that have goals such as you have outlined, and are far more influential than you imagine Freemasonry to be. Believe it or not, there is room in the world for organizations like Masonry, which focus on the spiritual development of the individual.

And there are probably more like me who believe that the spiritual aspect in life is the MOST important, and unless a person is well-grounded spiritually, no amount of politics or wealth in the world is going to bring them happiness.

Freemasonry does indeed have the potential to make the world a better place, but no through politics. Masonry seeks to improve the individual...but since society is composed of individuals, we can see Masonic virtues mirrored in greater society because of this.

I don't normally quote posts in full, but this is exactly what I was going to say, although said perhaps better then I would have done.

sb2012, Freemasonry simply doesn't exist to do the things you want it to do. Many people, who were also freemasons, have had an enormous influence on history and the world around us. Freemasonry could well be seen as a catalyst, but only has a direct influence on the inner world.

If you are about self improvement only, then leave politics alone. Not you but Freemasonry in general.

Originally posted by sb2012
If you are about self improvement only, then leave politics alone. Not you but Freemasonry in general.

Freemasonry does leave politics alone. What makes you think it doesn't?

Originally posted by sb2012
If you are about self improvement only, then leave politics alone. Not you but Freemasonry in general.

Freemasonry has nothing to do with politics.

Freemasons have something to do with politics.

Freemasons have also been known (Washington, Franklin, ect, ect, ect) to apply Masonry and its teachings to parts of their political beliefs......

I suppose that sounds sinister. Though I cannot imagine why....

I suppose all Jews, all Christians, all Muslims, Atheist, ect, ect, ect... should not apply their religions life teachings to politics and so forth. Politicians should not only be corrupt and morally empty now. But like corrupt, morally empty and robotic and express no signs of human nature.

Actually I have a theory politicians are already like that.....

Do you fear Masonry for what you know of. Or do you fear Masonry for what you do not know of?

[edit on 6/25/2007 by Rockpuck]

Originally posted by Rockpuck
(...)
Do you fear Masonry for what you know of it. Or do you fear Masonry for what you do not know of?

No, far from that. I always liked some secret societies but it makes me angry when i see they could use influence they have to improve certain things and they don't -- but OK, i don't expect them to change. Too many complex rules and complex people.

I don't fear Masonry or any other society, just all this watering down and lies about non-involvement in politics make me respond more times than i want and thus wasting time. I am answering more or less for others who may read threads later.

Originally posted by sb2012
No, far from that. I always liked some secret societies but it makes me angry when i see they could use influence they have to improve certain things and they don't...

But freemasonry does do a lot to help. The three main tenets of the Craft, and the areas where freemasonry works to promote personal growth, is Brotherly Love, Relief and Truth. The Relief part of this is Charity, and freemasons give large amounts to local, national and international charities. I recently read somewhere that in the UK freemasonry is the second largest single source of charitable giving behind the National Lottery. More information about masonic charitable giving can be found here.

Nothing more need be said about the Shrine hospitals across the USA, it has been well covered in other threads.

...just all this watering down and lies about non-involvement in politics make me respond more times than i want..

But it's not a lie. Freemasonry is "constitutionally" unable to involve itself in politics. It is a totally non-political organization and freemasons are not allowed to give political opinion in their capacities as freemasons.

The last bit is obviously key. Freemasonry makes no claim on a mans time or his life outside of lodge (breaking the law is probably the main area that freemasonry will get involved). Many politicians throughout the years have been freemasons, but I have no doubt that they, like I, enjoy freemasonry for its ability to allow you to leave your worldly cares outside the door of the lodge.

Personally, given the high standards that freemasons hold themselves to, and the moral lessons imparted by the ritual, the world would be a better place if more politicians were freemasons, not less. It's almost like some hidden power was scapegoating the freemasons to ensure good men stop running the country and return to their BBQs

Sure. Look, i spent enough time (just few hours, but still too much) providing at least a bit of info which is maybe beneficial for others to see the truth, that is, Freemasonry was and still is political organization and you and others are just trying to water down the issue or really have no clue what goes on.

Anyway, from now on i won't discuss Freemasonry on this board anymore, unless in the middle of some other discussion, but never as a main topic. This is because there are no other people involved other than a few masons who play apologetic broken record all the time and debate, or god forbid research, is out of the question. If someone else wants to argue with people who took oath to remain loyal to the organization and never speak against it, be my guest, i have more interesting stuff to do.

Originally posted by sb2012
Sure. Look, i spent enough time (just few hours, but still too much) providing at least a bit of info which is maybe beneficial for others to see the truth, that is, Freemasonry was and still is political organization and you and others are just trying to water down the issue or really have no clue what goes on.

Look, it's a provable fact that freemasonry is not involved in politics. It's there right in front of your eyes but you just don't want to believe it. You are unable to differentiate between freemasonry as a body and freemasons who are members and who have a life away from it.

I gave you an example of a significant error on a website you linked to, and it wouldn't be too hard to give you some more if you like. If you seek the Truth, you are being misled.

Did you visit the UGLE website? It's all laid out there. Official-like, on the web, from an official masonic body. I suppose that website is lying too?

[edit on 6/25/07 by Trinityman]

Originally posted by sb2012
... or god forbid research..

Research? You want research? Proper research, not play-research.

Go to the University of Sheffield's Centre for Research into Freemasonry, the site can be found here.

[edit on 6/25/07 by Trinityman]

Originally posted by andymonk
The complete flower of life.You wont see this on any site involving drunvalo.The point of his work is to stop people looking any further into the flower of life!His job is to convince us that he has the complete flower and there is nothing more to be added to it. thecompletefloweroflife.blogspot.com...

The COMPLETE ancient flower of life contains the tree,the fruit,the egg and the seed of life. The complete flower also contains the metatron cube which holds all the platonic solids. Not just the building blocks of life but the building blocks of creation its self www.sangraal.com...

So what can you create from that goofy picture? I have yet to see someone bring anything tangible into existence through looking at picture or sheer will.Show me how you can create any living organism through that picture,how anything can be brought forth from it.

Hi andy

Good to see you again. You were just about to tell me whether the York Rite counts as a 'higher degree' or not...

[edit on 6/29/07 by Trinityman]

Originally posted by Trinityman
Hi andy

Good to see you again. You were just about to tell me whether the York Rite counts as a 'higher degree' or not...

[edit on 6/29/07 by Trinityman]

I am sure that's very important and on topic.
Introduction to the Higher Degrees of Freemasonry
York Rite

Andymonk, i am working on that one you sent me. Thanks again. Link is cool too.

Originally posted by sb2012
Sure. Look, i spent enough time (just few hours, but still too much) providing at least a bit of info which is maybe beneficial for others to see the truth, that is, Freemasonry was and still is political organization and you and others are just trying to water down the issue or really have no clue what goes on.

Ok then...can you show me one single political candidate that Freemasonry has endorsed?

I can show you plenty of organizations tha endorse candidates: Greenpeace, NRA, churches, etc. But yet you keep saying Freemasonry is "political" when there is a universal consensus among Masons that it is not, and no evidence to support that the Masonic organization has engaged in any sort of profane politicking.

If someone else wants to argue with people who took oath to remain loyal to the organization and never speak against it, be my guest, i have more interesting stuff to do.

Also, let me state that this is not the case. No one took an oath to "never speak against it", and indeed I myself have often been critical of certain aspects.

Also, if Masonry was a political organization, it would not be "speaking against it" to say so. There's nothing wrong with political organizations. Our only point is that Masonry is not one of them.



[edit on 29-6-2007 by Masonic Light]

Of course you are, just look at all the people in politics, all the buildings and monuments raised just for Freemasons and then you want us to believe there is no politics. All the architecture and symbolism and so on. It's proofs everywhere.

And why so many politicians are 33rd degree masons? Are they so enlightened? So now you get a degree by lying to people? I am asking this because this is what politicians, including those who are Freemasons, do to the people on daily basis. Shame, shame.

this picture looks alot like the enegy field Nicola Tesla was refering to when he claimed the Earth had it's own energy grid, that we could tap into and harness, to feed the hole world.

Originally posted by SpaceBits
this picture looks alot like the enegy field Nicola Tesla was refering to when he claimed the Earth had it's own energy grid, that we could tap into and harness, to feed the hole world.

Thanks! Yea, Nikola Tesla had many inventions and patents, working on anti-gravity, zero-point energy and other, weather control and radioactivity too. They are keeping most of his valuable inventions away from public, so they can control us by this retarded fossil fuel and similar.

Originally posted by sb2012

Originally posted by Trinityman
Hi andy

Good to see you again. You were just about to tell me whether the York Rite counts as a 'higher degree' or not...

[edit on 6/29/07 by Trinityman]

I am sure that's very important and on topic.

It is very important, and its as on-topic as most of the other stuff in this thread.

It is important because anymonk, in common with many others, blindly believe that there is a single, one dimensional progression for freemasons. This blatantly ignores two rather large elephants in the room.

1. There are multiple routes/degrees for freemasons after Craft masonry. None are necessarily higher than any other, and none are higher than Craft masonry. That is why the phrase 'higher degrees' is disliked so much by so many.

2. The number of degrees you have does not relate to your seniority in freemasonry. Truthfully, there is no real determinate of seniority as freemasonry teaches equality, but one could view 'years as a freemason' as one determinate, or rank within Craft masonry as another. Different freemasons will be more senior to another depending on the given situation, which lodge, which Order, etc etc.

The whole simplistic anti-masonic 'progression' viewpoint, based on the existence of Craft and Scottish Rite only, is laughable and utterly naive to those of us who understand the high level of complexity of the degree system across different constitutions, and the true meaning of progression within freemasonry.

And so it is important because the more I drill down with so-called self-proclaimed experts of freemasonry, the more it becomes clear that they have no real depth of understanding of the real freemasonry.

And as long as you cling to the nonsense spouted by fools with websites and their agendas you will never understand what freemasonry is really all about. Why do you think freemasons all sound the same on this site? Because they are all talking from their own experiences and SHOCK HORROR everything is mostly consistent.

Freemasonry must be political because there are lots of freemasons in politics? Don't make me laugh. By that logic freemasonry must be all about medicine because of the amount of doctors who are freemasons. Or must be an entrepreneurial training ground because of the amount of self-employed people who are masons.

Why don't you compare the list of politicians who are freemasons with a list of politicians who are not freemasons, and see which one is longer?

Ooops - this turned into a bit of a rant. Sorry. But you know what I mean.

I would view seniority in Freemasonry by the way that individual Freemasons live their life and their moral conduct and rectitude especially in situations where doing the ethically right thing to do is the most difficult,and also based upon their lov for mankind and their willingness tohelp people in worse situations than themselves, to me that is more of a determining factor of your understanding of masonry than nay degree/degrees in and of themselves.

I know what it is about, but i see other stuff going on too, not just because of some NWO panic website, but because of (partially) documented history and people in power. Don't worry, i am aware what secret societies seek and what Freemasons seek is nothing bad.

One of the biggest problems and background of all this "evil" anti-mason talk is this: you are all equal in theory and seek knowledge and enlightenment, but pyramid-like power structure is used inside your organization for other reasons, negating what your organization stands for. This is serious and going on for a long time. People who talk about it are not the people you should be concerned with.

[edit on 30-6-2007 by sb2012]