One-Third of GOP Pres. Hopefuls Don't Believe in Science

I can't emphasize my support for him enough.

I wonder sometimes about what happen to the political ideology and the base of the Republican Party.

Is the Republican Party taken over by religious rights, while the corporate side of it is just letting the people in the nation, fight the religious cultish part of the party, while they reap the benefits of working within the party for personal and elistic purposes, while keeping the population ignorant?

Is the obvious show of ignorant views of certain topics that are taken at hart by many people in the nation just a way to keep the eyes away from other agendas?

Did Pat Robertson said that “elections was like a spiritual warfare”? is that what our political system of Ideologies has become?

I think after the taste of fundamentalist freedom, then the set back during Bush senior and Clinton, religious fundamentalist vowed to take over the Republican party that was more friendly to their needs and use it to gain control over the nation.

Since the 90s the efforts has been going as planned. Precinct by Precinct, State by State.

The Christian coalition and the Republican Party have been going on hand by hand for the purpose of wining votes to push agendas that will benefit both.

Now my question is and will always be, is the true agenda of the Republican Party elite to put a front of a religious agenda while hiding the corporate take over?

Under the Republican Party we have corporate American actually writing most of the “initiatives” bills that Bush has signed.

Therefore, I wonder where the Religious part starts and the power, money and greed ends.

Congress: Corporate America puppet

www.rinf.com...

Orangetom, I get your point; but the reality is Creationists and other anti- science groups exist in relatively large amounts in the US, and they have considerable influence on government, especially the current administration.

And Marge hits the nail on the head in terms of the "why and wherefores":

Originally posted by marg6043

Is the Republican Party taken over by religious rights, while the corporate side of it is just letting the people in the nation, fight the religious cultish part of the party, while they reap the benefits of working within the party for personal and elistic purposes, while keeping the population ignorant?

...

Now my question is and will always be, is the true agenda of the Republican Party elite to put a front of a religious agenda while hiding the corporate take over?

Originally posted by cpdaman
the truth is we don't know we just want to beleive we do, especially if our belief systems depend on it.

[edit on 6-5-2007 by cpdaman]

Truth is a strange thing.

Whether the truth itself is unpalatable, strange, confusing or seemingly pointless is inconsequential. The truth is the truth. That one person, or even everyone can't understand it at one given point in time doesn't mean it is pointless, futile, or worth ignoring. Truth is timeless. What is baffling today is understood tomorrow. Ignorance is eternal.

Whatever the truth is in relation to anything, it will still be the truth whether it affirms or destroys pre conceived concepts. The truth doesn't care about beliefs or feelings. It laughs its behind off at ego though, that much is assured.

[edit on 6-5-2007 by kegs]

Politcians pander, it's what they do. Always. The absolute lack of any critical thinking here is, um... interesting. They'll kiss Darwinism's ass when the situation calls for it too, rest assured. Then we can all laude them for their rational minds and deep understandings of evolutionary science. 'Cause the question was asked for purely scientific reasons, right? Politicians (just lawyers in cheap suits, iirc) are who we go to for such leadership/answers. Everybody knows that.


Why not title it: "7 out of 10 candidates for POTUS accept evolution. Hooray scienceTM!" We can't strike fear in the hearts of the, uniformed, electorate with that though, now can we. No sir. We need votes damnit.


Mike Huckabee *clarified* his position. Meaning he elaborated beyond the raised hand. He'd be your 'conservative values' poster boy here, no? What's that tell you about the importance of this issue to the 'base' you fear so much? But keep hitting 'em with the zingers. Not enough empty rhetoric in politics these days.


Question: 'By a show of hands, who here does not believe in evolution.'

Heck of a rant, RANT. Lots of need to know stuff here. Love the way you put in all in context for us. Love how you made it about young earth creationism too. Very clever, nobody ever thinks to do that. And you managed it with nothing but a 3outta10 show of hands to a yes or no question on the acceptance of "evolution." You're not an atheist by any chance, are ya? Didn't come across at all in any of your posts.


For those who love polls... or those who pander to those that do: The Washington Times (re: Gallup Polls) 1001 citizens, with a margin for error of +- 2%, determined the following:

Eight out of 10 Americans believe God guided creation in some capacity.

46 percent think God created man in his present form sometime in the past 10,000 years,

36 percent say man developed over millions of years from lesser life forms, but God guided the process.

Only 13 percent of Americans think mankind evolved with no divine intervention.

Wonder how we can make this political? RANT?

Originally posted by RANT
Sen. Sam Brownback, Gov. Mike Huckabee and Rep. Tom Tancredo think something along the lines of over two-thirds of 2004 Bush voters

This poll was conducted among a nationwide random sample of 885 adults interviewed by telephone November 18-21, 2004. There were 795 registered voters. The error due to sampling could be plus or minus three percentage points for results based on all adults and all registered voters.

Eggggcellent.

And with the way the atheists are attempting to rewrite science to conform to their own metaphysical belief system (e.g., wrt "evolution": the blind watchmaker) it's only a matter of time before all, but those lonely 13%, will have to raise their hands (they're already starting to call theistic evolutionists creationists, it's coming! *SWOON*) "Creationists, there! Get 'em, burn 'em at the stake.... for the love of reason and scienceTM. I implore you!" Dare I say it? Is atheist Karl Rove the mastermind behind some atheocratical conspiracy? *GASP!* Of course, I'm of the mind that, if it takes you longer to write it up (sans the witty zingers, which may or may not have taken ages to mold and shape) than it does to think it up in the first place, perhaps, just maybe, it's time to go back to the drawing board. Jus' thinking out loud, sorry. You were saying? Oh yeah the end is nigh, theocracy imminent, stop 'em at the ballots... please continue...

RANT, clever as always, again:

the geological record is pretty much just God's effort to get on MTV's "Punk'ed."

So they wanted to let a YEC book on the Grand Canyon be sold in the park bookstore. *GASP!* Have no fear folks. From the link:

Reading this is like watching paint dry (but somebody had to do it)

8.4.2 Historical and Scientific Research. Superintendents, historians, scientists, and interpretive staff are responsible for ensuring that park interpretive and educational programs and media are accurate and reflect current scholarship…Questions often arise round the presentation of geological, biological, and evolutionary processes. The interpretive and educational treatment used to explain the natural processes and history of the Earth must be based on the best scientific evidence available, as found in scholarly sources that have stood the test of scientific peer review and criticism. The facts, theories, and interpretations to be used will reflect the thinking of the scientific community in such fields as biology, geology, physics, astronomy, chemistry, and paleontology. Interpretive and educational programs must refrain from appearing to endorse religious beliefs explaining natural processes. Programs, however, may acknowledge or explain other explanations of natural processes and events.

RANT must not have gotten that far down the page yet. No matter, he was making a point. With facts and stuff.

I guess the political question would be, how can frontrunners McCain and Goul's possibly hope to lead such a nation of bone jarringly dumb ghost hunters if they aren't as voodoo obsessed as most of America?

How clever. Pulled the bait and switch much quicked than a more accomplished spinster would have, but nice effort. Anybody else see it? [Hint: Zombies/"voodoo obsessed" is a derogatory term (aka the atheists' rhetorical device) for Christians. "Raised from the dead," get it?]

Are two-thirds of the GOP hopefuls too smart for America? Or has something changed since 2004?

The facts certainly haven't.

Which facts were those again, RANT? Couldn't see 'em clearly through all that BS. Lucky for us they weren't "too smart" for you. No sir!

I see it's high time to revive this forum, thanks to the GOP hopefuls that want to lead this nation.

Yup, we needed more close-minded political tripe around here. You're a peach. What about the liberals? They'd be the 47%, who believe in special creation, that voted Kerry in the last election. Versus the 67% that voted Bush. (according to the CBSnews poll you posted) Man oh man, who to pander, and how to do it.

Never mind, one thing at a time. We were conflating the acceptance of common ancestry with belief in scienceTM and how 'smart americans who really love and really understand evolutionary science aren't to be duped,' not on RANT's watch. Please continue.

Off to bed; thanks for the laughs.

Riveted,
~Rren


(edit)Bad tags, bad spelling, couple typos... but other then that, flawless.



[edit on 7-5-2007 by Rren]

Wow, were you trying to have a logical fallacy party on your own there or something? I think you covered them all anyway, so umm..well done.

Originally posted by Rren
You're not an atheist by any chance, are ya? Didn't come across at all in any of your posts.

Nope. Pre-seminary. Perpetually.

An advisor told me once that the highest dropout rate among Christian Scholars was among the A students. The C students, however, go on to make GREAT flock leaders. They can speak of the mystery of the word with authenticity. Those that can't get past reality, history, the constant evolution of the 'unchanging word" and the Council of Nicaea need not apply.

Back on topic. The GOP has a fundemental problem here. It's obvious (at least to the A students), but then again there are none so blind as those who will not see.

Originally posted by Rren
Why not title it: "7 out of 10 candidates for POTUS accept evolution. Hooray scienceTM!"

Because even though that would be a respectable "C" grade, and most likely the GOP high bar, it's still a big, fat...



...to the "C" student base that each of these clowns need to win.

See the problem? I'm certainly enjoying it.

[edit on 7-5-2007 by RANT]

Originally posted by Rren
For those who love polls... or those who pander to those that do: The Washington Times (re: Gallup Polls) 1001 citizens, with a margin for error of +- 2%, determined the following:

Eight out of 10 Americans believe God guided creation in some capacity.

46 percent think God created man in his present form sometime in the past 10,000 years,

36 percent say man developed over millions of years from lesser life forms, but God guided the process.

Only 13 percent of Americans think mankind evolved with no divine intervention.

EXACTLY! And all the frontrunners of the GOP just joined the minority. Don't think I'm the only one that noticed. Trust me, all those post-apocolyptic doomsday cults Bush funds noticed.

Thats OK... I don't believe in 100% of the GOP hopefuls.

I am willing to concede in the spirit of compromise that you funnymentalists haven't evolved if you are willing to concede that the rest of us have.

Originally posted by RANT

Nope. Pre-seminary. Perpetually.

No worries, I'm sure nobody else noticed it. Mums the word.

An advisor told me once that the highest dropout rate among Christian Scholars was among the A students. The C students, however, go on to make GREAT flock leaders.

Wow, really? An advisor once told me not to put much stock in another man's argument from anonymous authority. Perhaps that's just me. Don't let facts get in your way. All Christian Scholars, whom did not drop-out, were C students. Brilliant. No, really.

They can speak of the mystery of the word with authenticity. Those that can't get past reality, history, the constant evolution of the 'unchanging word" and the Council of Nicaea need not apply.

Oh good grief. You gonna move the football everytime I try and kick it, Lucy? What reality was that again? The Nicene creed and the various translations of Scripture. This is good stuff. Do you really want to disinfranchise all those Catholics and other Christians on the left though? As an "A student", I assume, you already know you're doing exactly that, right? You obviously didn't manage an A in marksmenship though; you keep shooting yourself in the foot. FYI, your evangelical humanism/atheism might not have the traction you're thinking it will. Just a thought.

Back on topic. The GOP has a fundemental problem here. It's obvious (at least to the A students), but then again there are none so blind as those who will not see.

This problem just materialized in '00, or was it '04? Throw a blind squirrel a nut. Show me the light of reason. Use small words, please.

Originally posted by RANT

Originally posted by Rren
Why not title it: "7 out of 10 candidates for POTUS accept evolution. Hooray scienceTM!"

Because even though that would be a respectable "C" grade, and most likely the GOP high bar, it's still a big, fat...

...to the "C" student base that each of these clowns need to win.

See the problem? I'm certainly enjoying it.

Yes, as a Dem myself, I do. The political hack nut-jobs, whom always seem to find the microphones, are going to do everything in their power to hand the GOP another victory. Job well done. You're working for Rove aren't ya, RANT. Just 'fess up and save us all some time. Spin away, it's what hacks (who can't discuss these issues with any real depth) do. The unwashed masses will lap it up, without a second thought. So make some room on your 'A students bandwagon' because you're gonna need it. You can flip 'em on to the whole 'Christianity is for idiots who weren't smart enough to drop out, etc.' meme once you've suckered them in with the tripe. What was it you were selling again, RANT? Oh yeah, the GOP has some real issues with this brand new debate over evolution... what shall they do. Please continue.

Originally posted by RANT

EXACTLY! And all the frontrunners of the GOP just joined the minority. Don't think I'm the only one that noticed. Trust me, all those post-apocolyptic doomsday cults Bush funds noticed.

*SWOON!* I've got the vapas... lawdielawd, the vapas! According to your drivel (and argument from anonymous authority) you're the minority! Of course I'm not sure you've thought this strategy through all the way yet. Take your time, let it sink in. You'll need a lot more than that 13% (the, as you call them, "A students" I presume) so you'll have to use your awesome powers of BS, deflection, spin, Reductio ad absurdums, psuedo-historical knowledge and pseudo-scholarship. I have [f]aith you'll come through. You can find more ammo at wikipedia's formal fallacy page. Best of luck.

They'll never see you coming. Good luck with the snake-oil. With any luck, this time, you guys can get Cheney elected. Just stay away from any real issues. We're conflating evolutionary science with a "belief in scienceTM" here, please carry on. You've got a winner here. This time for sure! No, no folks. The 'theocrats' really mean it this time. They must be stopped! Those "A students" (aka the 13% of the country whom are non-believers, again, I presume) need to be running things. For our own good people!


Bored. This bores me,
~Rren

Originally posted by marg6043
My daughter is graduating with two majors on Biology and she has high expectancy on research but she said that the whole biology program is under attack all the time at the University she is at.

They have their own pro activist group call students for stem cell research. As everything fundamentalist target the ignorance of the population to get the support their need.

Hello Marge,


Didn't think you were old enough to have a daughter in graduate school. Not calling you old or anything. I swear :hand on heart:


... but could you recommend something to read wrt what's happening at your daughter's school. It's true, is it not, that this research will go on regardless of these groups? Only the research will not be publically funded. I know very little about this issue (couple OPeds is about all I've payed attention.)


Thanks and good to see ya.

Regards.


PS RANT,

I'm only responding in kind here (fyi, so will the 'big boys' if such a ridiculous argument is adopted.) That's my point, however obtuse the banter makes it, or yours. If you ratchet down the condescending 'smarter than thou' garbage I can do the same with the sarcasm garbage. Perhaps some real issues could be discussed then? Just thinking out loud. We Cs move our mouths when we read too.

Originally posted by Rren
Bored. This bores me,
~Rren

Really? Kinda makes me giggle.

I did see your point in a later post to not be so, um, open and honest, in my feelings.

No. And here's why...

Rep. Michele Bachmann (R-MN)
Bachmann, an Evangelical Lutheran, and self-professed "fool for Christ," ran for Congress because God—and her husband—wanted her to. The representative publicly credited her campaign to her submission to her husband, who was channeling God's wishes for her.

Rep. Marilyn Musgrave (R-CO)
According to Representative Musgrave, "Government doesn't have all the answers." Rather, she asserts, "Jesus Christ is the answer to every problem we face in our country today." And according to Musgrave, she has played an important part in narrowing the gap between the federal government and Jesus. How important? Musgrave has been the House leader of the effort to pass a constitutional amendment banning gay marriage, an endeavor she views to be "the most important issue we face today."

Rep. Tom Tancredo (R-CO)
Tancredo is best known as a hard-charging crusader against illegal immigration who labeled Miami as a "third-world country" and charged Mexico with aiding and abetting an invasion of America. And while he's fixed his long-shot presidential campaign almost entirely around this hot-button issue, he doesn't actually think illegal immigration is the biggest problem facing America today. According to Tancredo, it's only an "exacerbating factor" in an epic "clash of civilizations" that's currently taking place between Christianity and other religions of the world.
The former Catholic turned Evangelical believes America is a fortress for Anglo-Protestant values that is under attack by "multiculturalism" and radical Islam, which is "the most serious foe of Christendom."

Rep. Mike McIntyre (D-NC)
In 1995, Mike McIntyre received a powerful signal that it was time to run for Congress. And that signal was a mail package from an Evangelical minister who believes God wants Christians to take over the federal government. Just this past March, McIntyre helped announce the creation of a new Prayer Caucus in Congress, asking all Americans to pray for five minutes a week so that a 24-7 "prayer wall" could be built around the United States.

Rep. Jo Ann Davis (R-VA)
After Fox News and Bill O'Reilly started airing concerns about the growing secularization of the Christmas season, Rep. Davis led the congressional charge in the so-called "War on Christmas." By introducing House Resolution 579, she signaled an end to the days where Christmas-haters could stage assaults on public celebrations of Jesus's birth. In a last-minute rush to save Christmas 2005, House leaders whisked Rep. Davis's legislation to the floor. Davis kicked off the ensuing debate, lamenting that "it is unfortunate that a congressional resolution is even needed to do this," and warned of "overzealous civil liberties lawyers who are making their list and checking it twice."

Rep. Robin Hayes (R-NC)
At a town-hall meeting last year, Hayes advised attendants that "Stability in Iraq ultimately depends on spreading the message of Jesus Christ, the message of peace on earth, good will towards men. Everything depends on everyone learning about the birth of the Savior."

Jesus' Favorite Congressmen

If these morons can cash paychecks on my dime, spewing whatever snake handling, revisionist fairy tales they want in the US House, then I can certainly tell the truth as loud as I want on an alternative topics discussion board.

Again, here's the topic. The GOP is offering us two choices. Folks that think they're made of mud, and folks that think their voting base are mostly idiots.

Like I said before fundamentalist are gaining ground in their mission to take our government in the name of God and Jesus.

Like the song said "time is on my side" and they will be singing to that tune as long as they can hide under the umbrella of the GOP.

Beware of the wolf in sheep's clothing.

Originally posted by RANT

I did see your point in a later post to not be so, um, open and honest, in my feelings.

No. And here's why...

Can't blame a guy for trying. Oh, and here's why....



Jesus' Favorite Congressmen

That's an interesting link. I've not checked the veracity of any of it yet, can smell the sulfer from the exploded quote mines though (that'd be why all the quotes are snipped and filled (front and back) with the writers commentary. Impressive journalism. No, really. But I don't have the time nor inclination to chase down every one. Wonder what one might find at a way right leaning site? Not that I don't enjoy a poo-flinging match as much as the next political hack, I can make my point without all that extra leg-work, thusly:

Rep. Mike McIntyre (D-NC)

In 1995, Mike McIntyre received a powerful signal that it was time to run for Congress. And that signal was a mail package from an Evangelical minister who believes God wants Christians to take over the federal government.

[...]
Sen. Robert Byrd (D-WV)
Robert Byrd is a living institution in the Senate. And though his past includes membership in the KKK and opposition to the Civil Rights Act of 1964, he's best known for continually expressing an exuberance for Christ.

[...]
Honorable Mention: Rep. Dennis Kucinich (D-OH)
Despite being one of the most left-leaning members of Congress, and caricatured more as a hippy than a God-fearing American, Dennis Kucinich has quite a relationship with the son of God [...] the long-shot presidential candidate demonstrates that the fringe Left can wave the Jesus flag as vigorously as the Right-wingers.

Unless it's your goal to become the Hannity of the left, you may want to work on your chops. Just throwing tons of crap out there, in hopes some will stick? Wonder how many Dems made their '10dumbest' list? You were worried about "these morons" cashing checks on your dime and all... lemme see:

9. Representative Patrick Kennedy (D-RI)
[...]
7. Representative Cynthia McKinney (D-GA)
[...]
5. Senator Barbara Boxer (D-CA)

That's what happens when you toss enough poo in the air... you get a good bit on yourself too. Unless your goal is to entertain the most liberal members of our base, you've accomplished nothing with your nonsense. Just imagine what one might find at a hacky right oriented site... don't worry bud, I'm not that guy. Pisser in the wind type that is.

If these morons can cash paychecks on my dime, spewing whatever snake handling, revisionist fairy tales they want in the US House, then I can certainly tell the truth as loud as I want on an alternative topics discussion board.

Sure you can; knock yourself out. Our DNC brethren are notorious for knocking themselves out, why change now. Much of our base has those dreaded 'mudders and Cs' too, but we'll pretend that wasn't evidenced in every single poll posted in this thread thus far. You underestimate your GOP opponents (they count on it), don't understand your own base and think an ad hominem is a valid form of debate, nobody, whom wasn't already "with you," would be impressed or challenged in the slightest. Again, you're just being typical here too.

Again, here's the topic. The GOP is offering us two choices. Folks that think they're made of mud, and folks that think their voting base are mostly idiots.

Just because you can butcher Christian theology (albeit cleverly) means nothing. The GOP cares about pandering, just like the DNC. These faith based guys were played, they were never taken seriously. Certainly a politically savy man such as yourself has heard the word on the street. Perhaps you've even read that book.

ABCnews:

Kuo says the office was misused to rally evangelical Christians, the Republican base voters, to get GOP politicians elected. Not only that, Kuo claims Bush officials mocked evangelical leaders behind their backs, alleging that in the office of political guru Karl Rove they were called "the nuts."

"National Christian leaders received hugs and smiles in person and then were dismissed behind their backs and described as 'ridiculous', 'out of control,' and just plain 'goofy,' " Kuo writes.

You worry about all the wrong issues. You play the game by their rules, on their field and parrot their [style of] rhetoric. Your ad hominems wrt to Christianity might get a chuckle, from the amen choir, but that's about it. Your bait and switch techniques and pseudotheology is much more noticable than you think it is. Perhaps it's just me, maybe. You want to alienate 80% of the voters in this country. Ok, that's smart. No, really.


When you get rid of all them 'mudders and Cs' wars will end, I'm sure. Corporations will start to act responsibly, no doubt. Politicians will follow through on their campaign promises, pandering will be a thing of the past, absolutely. The new age of reason is just 'round the bend. Sure, worked for Pol Pot, Stalin et. al., I'm sure the 'land of the free and the home o' the Cs' will be no different. Gotta love those 'brights,' though. So much for a representative government. Do people still wonder why so many americans don't bother showing up on voting day? Yeah, I wonder. :shrug:

.... but you do write much better than I do, your jokes are much better too. So I'll bow out, admit my thrashing, and leave you to educate the people on what matters. Let me know how that works out.

Regards.

(edit to add): Just the two cents of a largely apathetic american voter. Feeling more disinfranchised by the minute. Tired of the tripe that gets passed of as the intellectual's position.

I'm probably due some change from my .02. Call it a tip; have a penny, give a penny, need a penny take one... as it says on the dish at my local convience store. You can have mine, RANT.

[edit on 8-5-2007 by Rren]

Originally posted by kegs
Orangetom, I get your point; but the reality is Creationists and other anti- science groups exist in relatively large amounts in the US, and they have considerable influence on government, especially the current administration.

Kegs,

You like others are doing it again. I am wondering to myself if you even realize what you are doing.??

You use peoples non belief in evolution as a broad brush to say or declare that they dont believe in science. I think you do yourself and others on this board a great injustice with this technique. Provided of course that people can even see beyond this technique you are wont to utilize here.

There are certainly lots of people out here who believe in science very much. This is obvious by the simple fact and understanding that they are utilizing digital technology here in this computer.

This is very narrowminded of you ..not broadminded. It is however very typical of todays political technique.

I will remind you and others here on boards or threads like this ...that to those of us who can think somewhat outside of the blocks that pass for emotional education today...that politics is obviously a religion.

This is clear by the zealousness and devoutness of the faithful who are posting on this thread..and also the deceptive technique used here to play through unaccountable. This hidden technique...is called "occult" Esoteric ..known only by a few or chosen.

Politics is very much like this which I am describing...both of the dominant partys use this technique. However..I must confess that the dominant use ..of this type of baiting placebo you and others describe is the constant fingerprint mostly of one party. It is quite noticable ...especially when they call out the "usual suspects" to get people on a emotional roller coaster for votes.

THe king is naked ...the king has on no clothes.

Many people are beginig to catch on to this very poor technique of all the political partys.

My greatest hope is that the public begins to vote against the body politic with their dollars and remote controllers when they see this technique being done over and over and over ...ad naseum. Both partys.

Politics has become a religion..an occult hidden religion..and if politics is using this type of "Science", it is not a quantum leap in thinking to realize that politics has prostituted out science to give the body politic credibility. This also means that by association ...science has become part of the religion. Part of the priesthood.

Not difficult to follow the dots. However if you are on a emotional treadmill..it would be difficult.

Learn to think outside the box..someone is attempting a con job on alot of people here.

Thanks,
Orangetom

Originally posted by marg6043
Like I said before fundamentalist are gaining ground in their mission to take our government in the name of God and Jesus.

Like the song said "time is on my side" and they will be singing to that tune as long as they can hide under the umbrella of the GOP.

Beware of the wolf in sheep's clothing.

Marge,

I have difficulty believing that like Kegs you actually understand what you are posting.

Like Kegs I am wont to believe you dont catch it while you make your posts.

Note your use of the words "our government" denoting possession. By your use of the sentence structure I get the impression that fundamentalists are not part of the process and are no better than hijackers without foundation. They can therefore be censored since they are not part of the process but sort of a foreigner..a stranger in a strange land.
This comes across as if the government is an entitlement of only certain people. Which goes back to my posts in previous pages.

This position comes through clearly in several of the posts here by different people. Government is something to which only certain people with certain beliefs are entitled. No others need apply.

This type of fractionalizing of the country is typical of certain political partys including the vitriol to accompany.

This is part of the position I am debating here on this thread. It also seems to be part of the position of which Rren seems to be speaking...athough in a much different manner than do I.

I do find Rren's humor to be of a very sharp and keenly honed edge. Very astute.

I wonder if you notice this fingerprint while you are justifying your logic or emotions/hostility??? Same for Rant?? I am certain that there are others in this room who do.

It comes across as some kind of very feral wildlife in its hostility and emotional levels.

What is worse to me is that I can notice this fingerprit of feralness and wildlife in the views of the news and information media today attempting to pass for sophistication.

Thanks,
Orangetom

Hi orangetom1999,

Originally posted by orangetom1999

This is part of the position I am debating here on this thread. It also seems to be part of the position of which Rren seems to be speaking...athough in a much different manner than do I.

I think it's a foolish, polarizing, absolute non-issue. The question was designed to make any candidate whom raised his hand look foolish. To those that care about, or are impressed by such things anyway. If this does become an issue now, all we're going to get is a bunch of non-scientist pandering to whichever position they feel their base wants to hear. If they really wanted to be clever they would have asked, 'do you believe man and ape shape a common ancestry?' Harder to back-peddle. Still absolutely irrelevant to being POTUS, but a lot less ambiguous, imo. And it's still a backfire, shoot-yourself-in-the-foot issue designed to belittle and not enlighten the electorate on the qualifications of the candidates for POTUS.

It's silly, imo. One would hope cooler heads would prevail at this level. They never do. It bores me and pisses me off at the same time. I'll have to double-check but that's probably the definition of "apathy." Or "pop culture" maybe.

Huckabee already *clarified* his position which would now be the same as every single candidate (afaik) in the field (both sides) i.e., "I believe that the creation has a creator. I believe there is a God. And I believe God put this whole creative process in motion. How he did it and the time frame in which he did it, I honestly don't know."

However, It has absolutely no bearing on any of these individuals' competency to be POTUS. As non an issue as any red herring could ever hope to be. Let us list every scientific theory we can think of. We'll run down the list for all the candidates, we can keep the "raise your hands if you disagree with . x ." Then we'll know what's what. As if. I tried to express my cringiness (translation: the question made me cringe) the best way I could... for what that's worth. If I was the kind of person who said such things, and snapped his fingers while saying them, I'd have posted: "Oh no you didn't" um, :snap, snap, snap, snap in Zformation:

What genius dreamed this up? I could probably work on my tact though, no doubt.

I do find Rren's humor to be of a very sharp and keenly honed edge. Very astute.

Mostly an ego thing probably; thanks, my sharply keen astuteness can not be overstated.

I wonder if you notice this fingerprint while you are justifying your logic or emotions/hostility??? Same for Rant?? I am certain that there are others in this room who do.

It comes across as some kind of very feral wildlife in its hostility and emotional levels.

I like that. Can't argue with it anyway; Guilty.

What is worse to me is that I can notice this fingerprit of feralness and wildlife in the views of the news and information media today attempting to pass for sophistication.

Thanks,
Orangetom

I watch PBS.

Regards.


PS,
If this were a Daily Show/Colbert Report skit it'd be great. Evolution schmevolution, as it were. RANT, I believe, was being serious about the importance of this issue. I took the bait.




PPS,
Just 'cause every PS should have one.





[edit on 9-5-2007 by Rren]

Rren,
I agree it is a non issue. The term I use to describe this is a placebo. They have the potential candidates debating and defending placebo issues which have little or nothing to do with the qualifications for office. I have stated so in some of my previous posts.

I refer to this technique as a jerk off technique. Public masterbation for votes. Pardon the crudity but I tire of this type of predictability over and over by the "usual suspects." After awhile you can see another round coming to keep the untutored on the puppet strings.

They use this technique to keep the devout and faithful on the puppet strings and keep up the zealousness right up to voting day. Talk about a religion.

The very sad point about this is that those not zealous or devout do not catch on to it. NOt much thinking going on here too.

No doubt that those not schooled in this political hocus pocus, slight of hand will spend time and labor trying to respond to this non issue or placebo. And yes it is designed to make one look foolish.

It was the same with the Abortion issue years ago. The litmus test became ones stance on abortion..not whether one was qualified for office.
This is how public perception is rigged or censored and I have stated so in numerous posts.

Yes, I too think Rant was being serious about the importance of the issue as was Marge. This to me is a clear indicator of thier devoutness to the puppet strings and entitlement mentality.
When politics gets to ones soul this deep one must be on a drug to remain hooked and get their next fix. And those of us who know...history also know that drugs were an important part of certain kinds of religious ritual.

Television/news and the media have become the drug of choice to many Americans. It is quite capable of altering the view or perception/understanding of the unwary.
Yes ..some of us tend to worship at this altar...faithfully, devoutly.

By the way..I may have to switch to PBS. I am getting disgusted with most of the other outlets..not only for news and information content but also for their constant bombardment by the advertisments. This is also my biggest turn off to talk radio...it is innundated with commercials. Im not intrested in this. Neither am I wont to be programmed by such commercials.

Thanks for your post...keep the wit keen,astute, and sharply honed..lots of feral wildlife out here with which to contend.

Thanks,
Orangetom

Originally posted by Rren
Evolution schmevolution, as it were. RANT, I believe, was being serious about the importance of this issue. I took the bait.

I heart you (in a very non-gay, good hair, Republican way).

BEST FOCUS GROUP EVAH!

Originally posted by orangetom1999
Yes, I too think Rant was being serious about the importance of the issue as was Marge. This to me is a clear indicator of thier devoutness to the puppet strings and entitlement mentality.

Okay, you know "RANT" doesn't exist right? I can't speak for "Marge" though as a phenomenologist....

But, I'm chomping at the bit for an epistemological discussion about the existence of "RANT" (and his or her entitlements) replacing the existence of GOD (and His or Hers) as legitimate GOP debate fodder.

Game? No really, game? I'll make coffee...