Child snatched on holiday( new sightings and CCTV)

Originally posted by deaman88
Here's a quote from todays news, regarding comments from Maddy's Grandmother :

..."The grandmother of Madeleine McCann has said Portuguese police made mistakes at the start of the hunt for her, possibly because they
were "inexperienced"...

news.bbc.co.uk...

[edit on 10/5/2007 by deaman88]

Those sort of comments annoy me. The family, who can't be bothered to get take out and eat in the room and are the 1st stop in responsibility for the little tykes dissappearence seem fit to point to finger at the police.

Maybe the portugese police made some mistakes, maybe they didn't. If this is truly a stranger abduction and mom/dad aren't involved, it's almost impossible to track a stranger abduction. There are no leads, unless you get lucky and someone witnessed the event. So other than contacting local sex registrants and hoping to get lucky they'd have to rely on any physical evidence, if there was any; And physical evidence takes time to process through crime labs ... even if it's rushed it would be a few days.

Originally posted by SmallMindsBigIdeas

Those sort of comments annoy me. The family, who can't be bothered to get take out and eat in the room and are the 1st stop in responsibility for the little tykes dissappearence seem fit to point to finger at the police.

I can understand your annoyance, and i think the whole issue of the parents being at fault, whilst it is a very valid one, is maybe an issue to be discussed once Madeleine is found. Not whilst they are worrying themselves sick if the little girl is even still alive. Thats not a dig by the way, just my point of view.

However, i think the finger pointing from not just the family but the general public too, is a result of frustration that the Portugese police simply do things somewhat differently to our police.

We should'nt be so presumptious that other countries do things as we do here in the UK. If you went to a third world country on holiday and this happened, would you moan that the police there did'nt have the resourses? Of course not.

Ok i know Portugal is'nt a third world country and that was probably a bad comparison, but i'm trying to get across that not all countries are like us.

Again SmallMindsBigIdeas, the above comment was'nt a dig at what you said at all. The subject of the McCann's leaving a 3 year old and 2 babies alone is something that will i'm sure be discussed at great length, i have certain strong feelings on the subject myself.

It's a hard one really. Kind of want to discuss it but don't find it appropriate at the moment if that makes sense.

CX.

According to a Portuguese newspaper, Correio da Manhã, the police has confirmation that the two men and one woman they are looking for are the same that were seen photographing kids.

In the previous Monday, 30 of April, a British looking couple was surprised photographing children in the Praça da Repblica, in Sagres. A Portuguese man on holiday in this village, father of a girl very similar to Madeleine, ran to the photographer to ask what he was doing but the man ran away: it entered in the car with a woman that was with him and pulled out. The father of the photographed girl failed to see the cars' licence plate, but he drew his camera equipped cell-phone and photographed the couple in escape.

When he knew of the abduction of Madeleine, at only some kilometres, he telephoned to the Judicial Police. He was heard with much attention in the PJ of Portimão and told them everything. The investigators have the photos of the couple caught by cell-phone camera. The images are very low quality.

This man, emigrant in Germany and on holiday in Sagres, came back to speak with the PJ. The investigators had looked for him to show him the photograph of the two men and a woman in a Lagos' petrol station. The man did not have any difficulty in identifying one of the men and woman as the couple that he surprised photographing the children in Sagres.

Source, in Portuguese.

Sorry for the translation, it was the best I could do.

Thanks for the translation ArMap

Now that suspects have been identified, i don't think it will be long before they are picked up. Theres just too many people out to get them.

I know that does'nt mean that Madeleine will be with them, but we can hope.

CX.

I'm glad this case is being mentioned here. I don't pray but I have done for this wee girl. It's her birthday on Saturday, I hope she's home and safe for that. Her parents, especially the mother, look absolutely destroyed. I shouldn't blame them either for leaving the kids alone. It's a nice quiet area, and enclosed. They probably thought their kids would be safer with them checking every half hour than having a complete stranger as babysitter. Obviously they're wishing they hadn't but it's not a blame issue. A monster was on the prowl that night and no-one could have known. What really bugs me is that UK police have sent details of every known "monster" who has left the UK to live in the Algarve. These people shouldn't have their freedom to start with never mind a passport to travel.

Thanks for the tip there Armap, it puts this at least in more detail.

So these people have done this before, suggesting they may be regulars on the island maybe?

I am suprised that the photo images are not released to the media, surely this is the next logical step, like the registration plate of the car they were driving?

This manhunt has become pan european, and it seems they are a few days behind the tracks of these abducters.

They too must know what is happening, I think, so what would you do? Keep running? no. you would probably dig into some location, if you haven't taken off already.

But where could hey be heading? Certainly not to any public place now. It seems they have knowledge of the area, and may have done this type of thing a few times before.

To not take the sea route, and go through land is riskier. Do you have a local map of the alleged route armap or crustas?

Here is a map of Algarve.

The red star is in Sagres, the town where that Portuguese emigrant on holiday saw the other guy and a woman photographing children.

A little to the right (to East) is Lagos, the town some 5 or 6 Km from where Madeleine and her family were on holiday. The place where they were on holiday, Praia da Luz, is to the West of Lagos, so for someone coming from Sagres it is a logical route.

To get out of Lagos there aren't many options, the best route is through A22 to Spain, but for someone who does not want to get caught, although it is the quickest route it may not be the best because there is no way of changing direction for some kilometres once we get on the A22.

Even if they wanted to go North, they must reach the junction with the A2, and from there is even less possibility of getting out of the highway.

That is one of the reasons I think they it is possible for the kidnappers to be still in the area, unless they had everything very well planed and with big monetary means.

I still think that escaping through the sea is not a good option. Although the sea in the area is usually calm, that area is full of fishermen and is patrolled by the coast guard because it is the shortest way for drug traffic from the North of Africa.

PS: If they were in Sagres I don't think that had this well planed, Sagres has only one way out, and from there to Lagos there aren't many side roads, to one side is the ocean, to the other just fields.

A businessman has apparently offered £1,000,000 for information leading to the safe return of Madeleine.

Thats as well as the £100,000 offered by the family friend last week.

Hopefully it's figures like this that will turn even the most loyal of associates to the person(s) that took Madeleine.

CX.

Father of Madeleine to make a statement to the press at 10:30am GMT.

Lots of talk on the news this morning about the disrepancies surrounding the times given relating to exactly how often the McCann's were checking on thier children. They seem to have told police that it was every 30 minutes, however friends have stated that the times were somewhat further apart.

Obviously the stories are'nt matching which is probably just a case of people not knowing exactly what the correct time was. I mean when you check on your kids every now and again when they are in bed you don't log the exact time do you?

The diffficulty this now presents is that if the times that the kids were left alone are further apart than at first stated, the window of oppurtunity for an abducter has suddenly widened.

As a local English newspaper publisher just expalined on the news, this means that if this was planned, say the abductor snatched Madeleine straight after the last check from the parents, he could have been across the border into Spain withing the hour.

Thats before the McCann's had a chance to phone the police, possibly even before they even returned to thier room for thier next check on the kids.

Scary thought.

The statement made by the McCann's just now to the press basically outlined thier appreciation to all involved for the help and support.

It's little Madeleine's birthday tomorrow, she'll be four.

CX.



[edit on 11/5/07 by CX]

Two women who had been talking to the police since 11:00 have returned to the resort from they were taken to the police after 8 hours in the offices of the Judicial Police.

Madeleine's father was also in the police since 14:00 yesterday until 03:00 today.

The police has said that what makes these talks so long is the fact that the Portuguese law only allows for translations made by a professional and recognized translator, something that I had forgot, so, at least, all things must be said twice, taking at least twice as long.

Today, the apartment from where Madeleine was taken was searched once more with the help of dogs.

A few new developments,

There looking for a white van,

theres also talk that an American man who lives in the area has not been since, this man also had a white van, theres talk that a pink buggy was seen in his van(No idea when)

He also recently lost custody of his own son very recently,


This is just a line of inquiry,

Could this man be the driver?



Its maddys bithday also today,

[edit on 12-5-2007 by asala]

The reward money is up to £2.5 million, with newspapers and businessmen adding to the amount.

Reward up to £2.5 million

This is a great incentive for getting people to give info, just as long as it does'nt attract too much false information as is usualy the case.

I got quite choked yesterday watching tv, they were interviewing the headmistress of the primary school Madeleine is due to start in September. The headmistress said that the little kids at the school are asking questions that on'y kids would ask, like "Will she be able to come back for her birthday?" and "What happens if she wants a cuddle or something to eat?"

Lets hope this new lead turns up something.

Happy birthday Madeleine.

CX.

I hope and pray that this little girl is found safe and well.
As educated people they should have known better than to leave the kids alone. In this day and age with all the freaks and weirdo's nowhere is safe to leave children unattended. Even having a meal across the road is too far!
When you have children you need to be selfless to the end. They are far more imporant than a cosy meal with friend's. Sorry to sound so hard.
My daughter dissapeared in a department store once while we were queueing up to see Father Christmas. The store was packed with people. I looked down and she was gone! I was frantic. Fortunately for me she was found in the TV department sitting on the floor watching kids TV. She told me she had got bored in the queue! She never did it again, but it taught me a valuable lesson as a parent.

I have an inkling that the kidnappers know the parents and this is some sort of revenge/ransom bid.

Perhaps the parents of a patient one parents treated unsuccessfully? In a bid to get revenge for the loss of a child, they have taken the child of one of the Doctors?

Seeing as the Police are veering towards an international/British connection, it seems odd that a "normal" child abductor would go to Portugal, kidnap a child then take her out of the country. Far too much effort to go to, if you ask me, when there are plenty of other children closer to home, so to speak, who would make a far easier target....

In a buzzing holiday resort like that, i am surprised no one saw anything. There appears to be a few sketchy siting's, but nothing substantial.
The other babies were there too. Why was'nt there a commotion?
It doe's seem very odd. If the restaurant as as close as they say why did'nt someone notice a shaddow in the window or hear a door close? Or see a light go on?

I have just read that they were locked in!! What if there had been a fire?
This just gets worse...

I have just read that they were locked in!! What if there had been a fire?
This just gets worse...

Another thing to think about....

As it was'nt just Madeleine in the apartment but her baby siblings too, why would a child abducter not take the babies too?

If it's someone snatching a kid for a ransom, despite the fact that we probably would have had demands by now, surely 3 kids would have been better than one? Maybe it's more hassle looking after 2 babies than a 3 year old, and it would be harder to conceal all 3, but nethertheless.

If it's some sick paedophile abduction for a sex ring, i just can't see why they left the babies? To the sick minds of these people, a baby is no different that an older child.

Back in the early 90's in Germany, i had the sickening experience of not only arresting the guy, but being present at a police interview where a child abducter who had strangled his victims explained his actions to the police.
He talked about it as though it was a day trip to the shops, very normal and something he would do again and again given the chance.

One thing astounded me, he said he chose his victims, who were only a few years old, because he "could'nt find anything younger".

Thats the kind of mindset we are dealing with here when people take kids.

Whilst it's great putting out appeals and everything else, theres little hope that it will bother the abducter. They won't feel the sorrow that we feel for the child because they are so young, thier youth is the reason they were taken in the first place. Sick i know, but thats just the facts.

Lots of things in this case just don't add up, but there is so much guessing and speculation that i suppose it will seem like that at times.

CX.

Im glad there is a thread on this subject. For someone who considers himself to be a rough arse ex soldier i can tell you i have shed a tear or two over this. Firstly we should not judge the parents as yet all eyes should be focusing on the safe return of maddy then maybe questions can be answered later. Yes they were in the wrong and i think they know that only too well.

I fear that the longer this goes on the less chance we have of a safe return for this little girl. I can imagine the abducters starting to feel the heat a little now and may want to dispose of maddy split up and return to where they came from.

I have a girl the same age as maddy and i couldnt handle it if this happened to her and i mean i would seriously lose it id hunt these people down myself.

Just found this lin. This shows what great people the portugese can be:

news.aol.co.uk...

A round of applause should be given to the randsom donators. I believe there may be a small army of bounty hunters on their way to the area right now, and that means more determined eyes on the ground.

Its her birthday today and i will say a special prayer for her safe return



[edit on 12-5-2007 by thesaint]

Originally posted by CX
Thats the kind of mindset we are dealing with here when people take kids.

That we don't know.

We can only know what was in the mind of the person or persons that took Madeleine if we get them (and I hope we get them soon).

Today, the "motards" from Aldeia da Luz started to spread through the country with photos of Madeleine on their motor-bikes.

In Spain there are some British citizens spreading photos of Madeleine, although the case, apparently, hasn't had a big presence in the media.

In Morocco, the photo and the case of Madeleine was posted in an official site about missing children.



I am an atheist, but for Madeleine's parents, who are catholic, it would be good if they could get their child back tomorrow, the 90th anniversary of the first Fátima apparition.