Attn.CGI Animators: Could You Post U-Tube UFO vids that are NOT CGI's?

Those of you who are CGI animators, could you post some links to UFO movies that are on YouTube that you believe are REAL UFO's and not CGI animations?

No need to embed those video's in this thread. Just give us the URL links of those YouTube pages for us to view. I would really like to see them.
Thanks



[edit on 3-5-2007 by Palasheea]

I've been thinking. Couldn't some of us offer our services to YouTube in order to sort out the proven fakes from the non-proven ones? The idea is that whenever we find a UFO video that's been proven fake/CGI/earthy phenomenon, we label it as such in pure sense fighting ignorance.

We could make a case, stating that the rampant fakery/ignorance of the majority of UFO videos on YouTube is substantially deteriorating any credibility that is left in the UFO scene. YouTube is a a powerful information spreader today after all, we just want to make sure that the UFO scene gets put in the right light.

Do you think YouTube would be interested in this? We would of course offer our services for free, and only get privileges to label UFO related video with 3 different labels, "CGI", "Earthly phenomenon" or "Other" (which would accompany an explanation), nothing else. We can't remove videos, we can't 'screen' them. Just, after a decision made by at least 2 people, alter the label and maybe add in an explanation.

Great suggestion Drexon!
Maybe we could also create a movie showing each and every one of those UFO clips that are currently posted on You-Tube that our CGI people here are absolutely certain are CGI animations -- hence FAKE UFO's.

Before each clip is shown in the movie, we should mention the name of the U-Tube member who recorded it (or posted it) and the URL of that U-Tube page that the CGI UFO is shown on.

Just by looking at all of those UFO clips on You-Tube, the vast majority of them are not copyrighted -- or do not seem to be...

Not sure if we still would run into any legal problems for non-copyrighted home-made CGI UFO clips if we were to show all of them in a movie without first getting the permission of the CGI animator beforehand, but it's my guess, since they are obviously attention seekers, most would not have any objections to having their clip included in a production of this sort.

If we do find that one or two do object to having their clip included in that movie, we can simply remove their CGI UFO clip and leave it at that.





[edit on 3-5-2007 by Palasheea]

Let's start small. I think it's wise to just suggest they give a select few of us the right to alter the names of the videos. If it becomes successful we can move on to copyrighted stuff, removal of certain sections of clips etc etc. Remember, we need to be able to do this as smoothly and fast as possible, since there's an overwhelming amount of UFO video on YouTube (and why do you say U-Tube?).

Ok but just for now, couldn't some of you who are CGI-ers or who are at least familiar with those CGI software programs just post some URL links from You Tube that you believe are real UFO's and not CGI animations?

But I do think your idea is great and it would be interesting to see if YouTube would allow a few of ATS' CGI animators to lable those UFO clips that are currently on that site.

YouTube has a comments section where someone's opinion could be stated.

Wouldn't changing the title be like someone coming here and changing thread subject lines because that person feels it should be titled different?

Well, we Do change thread titles here and even lock threads after they're considered fake or resolved as an earthly phenomenon, but that's only after it's been established.

So no, I'm not suggesting we change the titles according to one mans feelings on the video, I suggest we change it after it's been established by, say, people prone to detect CGI, after input from at least another person. The original though I had was a 'jury' of 5, where new CGI videos like the "video of triangle ufo over city" have to be considered 100% fake by all 5 members before it gets a label. If it's the subject of older, 100% proven fake/CGI/known phenomenon videos, like old contrail vids or the repeatedly reoccurring SCI-FI CGI pieces, it'd only take 2 members to label it.

How does that sound?

I don't understand what Drexon means by changing the title of the video either. Is there a reason for doing that? (EDIT: Drexon just answered our question on that one -- thanks Drexon)

Anyway, just to get things off an running in this thread concerning my request for some of our CGI animator's here in ATS to post the YouTube link to a UFO video that you believe is NOT a CGI animation, I've got one here that looks pretty legit. Anyone here want to comment on it?



[edit on 3-5-2007 by Palasheea]

It's all in YouTube's hands. If traffic for advertising is the tube's concern then I suspect they would not go for this idea. They may not care about how content is labeled or what it is as long as it brings people to their site.

If they perceive a larger audience by having the maybe real vs hoax catagories then maybe they will be receptive.

Very good suggestion to permanently mark fakes as fakes, for once and for all.
However youtube may not allow you to admin their site, its their site afterall and we have many many youtube clones around. Google video is another huge archive, and I don't think they would permit anyone to label any vids without the owners permission.

You can add comments, but no one knows who you are, you are an expert or not etc. And the comments gets buried very quick. Some vids dont allow comments.

So its difficult to temper with youtube and such. IMO its better to start a thread, which can be stickied at the top where people can add fake video links and some mods can remove something which is not fake.

Wait, lets see how easy task it is to sort out fakes from not so fakes....I searched google videos and got this -

Results for ufo 1 - 100 of about 19,997 (0.297 s)

Well..... we better start NOW

Regards
RSB

A much better idea just flashed before me....
Its easier to add links to "seemingly real" vids in that thread, approved by CGI experts of course.
Rest shall be automatically called as fake, until proven something else.

Regards
RSB

Awesome CGI UFO samples:







Don't know the creator's name but he has talent.

Nice clips - impressive. He has others too, and certainly doesnt seem to be pushing that he expects them to be considered real.

Tho his comments are a mix of the FAKE screamers, people genuinely impressed and those that for some reason think they are real and he's not very active in them.

Makes me wonder, on what do we base the validity of any clip ?

And we cant blame people like him for making these things, the technology is here, and available..

Originally posted by Palasheea
I've got one here that looks pretty legit. Anyone here want to comment on it?

[edit on 3-5-2007 by Palasheea]

Its not CG or any other trick. I don't know what he filmed, but the bloom effect is due to autofocus messing up. All we have is a light source against a jet black background, can be anything.....

Originally posted by Drexon
We could make a case, stating that the rampant fakery/ignorance of the majority of UFO videos on YouTube is substantially deteriorating any credibility that is left in the UFO scene. YouTube is a a powerful information spreader today after all, we just want to make sure that the UFO scene gets put in the right light.

I don't agree with it, Drexon. It's censorship and I don't like it. Anyone is free to post videos on YouTube, provided that they abide by the website's terms and conditions. For other, third-party people to step in and 'label' that video (probably) against the owner's permission is just plain wrong.

YouTube has a comments section for videos. That is more than enough for any member of the public to make a comment about the video in question.

Do you think YouTube would be interested in this?

No, they shouldn't be. The fact that they have reasonably open terms and conditions should not be breached by a fringe group wanting to impart their views on certain videos is not ideal. Let's face it, us UFO supporters/believers are a fringe group. Why should we have any special rights about what goes on at YouTube?

We can't remove videos, we can't 'screen' them. Just, after a decision made by at least 2 people, alter the label and maybe add in an explanation.

Again, the comments section for each video is more than enough for people to pass their judgement about that video. I really despise adding labels, especially when it is based upon the opinion of only two people.

The 'free speech' of YouTube should not be violated by people wanting to place labels onto the videos. It's censorship and a form of passive control that many of us here despise when it is forced upon us by governments/military, etc...

Let free-thinking people think, and let the sheep follow.

[edit on 3-5-2007 by tezzajw]

Originally posted by tezzajw
Again, the comments section for each video is more than enough for people to pass their judgement about that video. I really despise adding labels, especially when it is based upon the opinion of only two people.

The 'free speech' of YouTube should not be violated by people wanting to place labels onto the videos. It's censorship and a form of passive control that many of us here despise when it is forced upon us by governments/military, etc...

Let free-thinking people think, and let the sheep follow.

I'm not advocating censorship as stated before, I'm simply For the spreading of knowledge, and seeing how so many users post so many videos that the average Joe can't tell apart from a real one, it's only natural to want to inform people of this. And the 'two people' example was only an example for already proven fakes such as the SCI-FI advertisements and other known, but not by all, fakes.

The system I'm suggesting should have a very, very small risk of mislabeling after all. What's wrong with letting random YouTube guy uploading the NY SCI-FI ad for the first time knowing it's a proven fake? I don't think he would mind it at all.

The quicker solution would be to establish a professional peer group that can review the raw footage. Have a server where unedited/uncompressed footage can be uploaded for review.

Once that is established - ask any poster of UFO videos for the unedited/uncompressed footage for review. If they decline, that may speak volumes right there. Save allot of time.

On another note - Allot of this footage takes place in broad daylight, low altitude and over cities. If we aren't hearing of hundreds/thousands of witnesses reporting UFOs in the local news stations/radio stations of a UFO cruising downtown during the lunch hour...real good chance its simple composite work.

Originally posted by Drexon
I'm not advocating censorship as stated before, I'm simply For the spreading of knowledge, and seeing how so many users post so many videos that the average Joe can't tell apart from a real one, it's only natural to want to inform people of this.

Hey, Drexon. I'm not arguing with you, mate. I read your stuff often and I value what you write. However, I entirely disagree with you on this score. Labelling any YouTube video is a form of censorship. We already have enough censorship in our lives without needing a tag on a video to tell us that something is real or fake. Every movie and TV show ever released has a tag to tell us who should see it, etc... That's also censorship.

Say, for example, that I WANT to hoax a UFO video. Then I have every right to post it on YouTube (subject to T&C) as filmed. I don't believe that anyone else has the right to 'officially' tag my video a hoax. There is a comment box for people to call it a hoax, if they feel the need to do so.

Similarly, what if my video is absolutely real and gets labelled a 'fake'? What happens then? That would piss me off to no end for someone to 'officially' judge my video, and label it, without them having been there behind the camera recording it.

The system I'm suggesting should have a very, very small risk of mislabeling after all. What's wrong with letting random YouTube guy uploading the NY SCI-FI ad for the first time knowing it's a proven fake? I don't think he would mind it at all.

Even a small risk, is a risk, especially where censorship is concerned. You or I wouldn't want something to be falsely tagged and that's a real risk with what you propose.

Most people have brains, even if they don't use them. Let people watch what they choose, without labels, so they can draw their own conclusions. Anyone seriously interested in the UFO topic will delve deeper into it, if they like what they see.

I just don't see any positives at all by wanting to impose any type of tagging system on free-to-internet YouTube videos. Censorship sucks, dude.

Originally posted by tezzajw
Similarly, what if my video is absolutely real and gets labelled a 'fake'?

Okay, I retract my statement about it being very, very unlikely and I'll replace it with extremely unlikely. Look at the UFO videos on YouTube, they're 9X% fake, isn't that a problem to you? What I'm suggesting is only a fair labeling of a deliberately faked UFO video. If there's any doubt what-so-ever from any of the people judging it, there would be no label, meaning a good amount of the UFO videos will still remain unlabeled.

Alternatively we could suggest they put up a small frame in the UFO cases we of the 'UFO board' has deemed "probably fake" where we objectively point towards the evidence. This way the average Joe, if interested, will be forced to form his own opinion on the case based on the evidence pointed at. There's any number of ways of doing this, I'm just saying that the comment section isn't enough as you're 'nobody' and the comment section can even be disabled.

Originally posted by tezzajw
Most people have brains, even if they don't use them. Let people watch what they choose, without labels, so they can draw their own conclusions. Anyone seriously interested in the UFO topic will delve deeper into it, if they like what they see.

What's the point of having a brain if you don't use it? As even shown on this board, far, Far from everyone is able to tell a CGI from real. It's only fair, and in the best interest of the viewer to know the general consensus of what experts think of the clip. Again, I'm not suggesting we put labels on the UFO videos that we're skeptical about or even find real, just the ones that are either mistakenly uploaded by new users and ones that since long, long ago has been proven fake/earthly phenomenon, meaning you with your bad intentions would only get a label/opinoned if it was an extremely badly done CGI. It's almost literally fool proof.

Originally posted by tezzajw
I just don't see any positives at all by wanting to impose any type of tagging system on free-to-internet YouTube videos. Censorship sucks, dude.

Well, that's you. I'd like to believe that the majority of this UFO forum sees it otherwise. And it's not censorship, just a fancy, more visible 'comment' done by people in the know.

[edit on 3-5-2007 by Drexon]

[edit on 3-5-2007 by Drexon]

I think nullster and Drexon are on to something here and I do hope those idea's presented in this thread will eventually gain momentum with a goal to at least establish a peer review committee to analyze those UFO movies shown on YouTube.
We are living in such an exciting time in history due to the introduction of the internet and the world wide web. These days will someday be looked back on as the pioneer days of the internet where everyone is searching for new and improved ways to use this medium in a truly effective manner.
Because there are so many renegade CGI-ers out there now who are gleefully posting their creations on sites like YouTube where they are also trying to pass their video's off as the real thing -- in this case UFO's; there's definitely a great need at this point in time to intervene in such a way to discourage such artists from misrepresenting what's in their video's and instead present them for what they really are FAKE UFO'S.
I believe that ATS is in the unique position to implement such a program comprised of experienced CGI-ers who are able to identify CGI animation in even the most realistic UFO movies. Just hope eventually this committee will be formed for benefit of the whole UFO community.





[edit on 3-5-2007 by Palasheea]