Aerospace Archeology!

I hope this is in the right forum!

I looked up Shadowhawk's introductory post to ATS. In it he mentions that he is into "aerospace archeology". From what I could gather, it has to do with studying crash sites as a way of learning about aircraft.

However, I'm not clear how it works for a few reasons:

1. Aren't crash sites usually closed off until the crash investigation/ clean up are complete?

2. Usually most military aircraft crash site are stipped of "sensitive materials" that could reveil anything that isn't already public.

3. How much can you learn from what left at a crash site?

I would really love to know more about Aerospace Archeology and how it works. Will you tell me a little about it?

Tim

Its mostly hunting down old crash sites. The locations for alot of these are unknown and the hunt can be part of the fun. Although you are right in saying that the majority of material is removed from the crash sites there is normally still a sizeable number of "bits".

For more check out:
Tom Mahoods excellent mini-oddessey In Search of Article 928 - www.serve.com... (has an area 51 link)

And the X-Hunters website - www.thexhunters.com...

The X-Hunters is a great site with information regarding hunting old X Plane crash sites. As you can see, there is often some "bits" to be found.





[edit on 3-5-2007 by stealthyone]

Originally posted by gfad
For more check out:
Tom Mahoods excellent mini-oddessey In Search of Article 928 - www.serve.com... (has an area 51 link)

And the X-Hunters website - www.thexhunters.com...

You know, this is quite intresting. Pete Merlin was involved in the search for Article 928. It would be really intresting to ask him what is was like to search for the wreckage of a Blackbird Spyplane.

Shadowhawk, if you're reading this thread, here's you cue!

Tim

Here is a list of a few of the crash sites I have found:

U-2 (341), 04 APR 57 - First prototype, antiradar test
U-2A (56-6955), 14 AUG 64 - Nationalist Chinese pilot
A-12 (60-6926), 24 MAY 63 - Test flight from Area 51
A-12 (60-6928), 05 JAN 67 - Test flight from Area 51
D-21B (501), 28 SEP 67 - Planned captive flight from Area 51
YF-12A (60-6936), 24 JUN 71 - World record holder
SR-71A (61-7952), 25 JAN 66 - Test flight from Edwards AFB, California
SR-71A (61-7953), 18 DEC 69 - Test flight from Edwards AFB, California
SR-71A (61-7965), 25 OCT 67 - Night training flight
SR-71A (61-7966), 13 APR 67 - Crew training mission
SR-71A (61-7970), 17 JUN 70 - Pitch-up during refueling

I also located the SR-71B crash site, but it's a rice paddy now and I wasn't inclined to wade on in to look for titanium.

A few of the stories regarding the hunt for these sites are detailed on Dreamlandresort.com and more can be found on thexhunters.com. I even used several of them as case studies in a presentation at the Fourth Annual UFO Crash Retrieval Conference last year in Las Vegas. They serve as excellent examples of documented government retrievals of crashed secret black projects. The stories include a history of each vehicle, circumstances surrounding the accident, crash response activities, and the results of my visit to each site.


[edit on 4-5-2007 by Shadowhawk]

Originally posted by Shadowhawk
Here is a list of a few of the crash sites I have found:

U-2 (341), 04 APR 57 - First prototype, antiradar test
U-2A (56-6955), 14 AUG 64 - Nationalist Chinese pilot
A-12 (60-6926), 24 MAY 63 - Test flight from Area 51
A-12 (60-6928), 05 JAN 67 - Test flight from Area 51
D-21B (501), 28 SEP 67 - Planned captive flight from Area 51
YF-12A (60-6936), 24 JUN 71 - World record holder
SR-71A (61-7952), 25 JAN 66 - Test flight from Edwards AFB, California
SR-71A (61-7953), 18 DEC 69 - Test flight from Edwards AFB, California
SR-71A (61-7965), 25 OCT 67 - Night training flight
SR-71A (61-7966), 13 APR 67 - Crew training mission
SR-71A (61-7970), 17 JUN 70 - Pitch-up during refueling

I also located the SR-71B crash site, but it's a rice paddy now and I wasn't inclined to wade on in to look for titanium.

WOW!

This is incredible! You've found the wrecks of some of the most incredible planes ever flown. Your list includes 8 different Blackbirds. Hunting for the missing Blackbirds seems to be your big favorite.

I just have one more question, have you ever looked for anything other then a spyplane?

Out near Bakersfield, CA. there should be the crash site of F-117A (792), which was lost in June of 1986. I would think the wreck of a stealth might be an intresting find for you. It would certinally be a First in aerospace archeology. No civilan, as far as I know, has ever found parts from a crashed stealth plane!

NOTE: for anyone about to say "There is nothing to find", I would like to point out Merlin's Laws:

• 1. There is always something left (Applies to UFO crashes only if there's a real crash!)
  
• 2. There is almost always a road to the crash site.
  
• 3. Newspaper information is not to be trusted
  

Based on these three laws, it stands to reason that there should still be something from the Stealth Fighter for a guy like Pete to find. How about it Pete?

Tim

[edit on 5/5/2007 by Ghost01]

I have visited over 100 crash sites in the western U.S. (California, Nevada, Arizona, Idaho, Utah, New Mexico, and Texas). The only reason it seems that I concentrate on Blackbirds is because there are so many crash sites in this part of the country.

I have only visited three F-117A crash sites (792, 801, and 822), but I have been able to examine parts of two other wrecks (785 and 806) and numerous surviving members of the fleet. I was not the first to visit the bakersfield site. The first visitors included a news crew from Bakersfield and a couple of hikers who went in a few months later. I took the pilot's daughter to the site last year to replace the memorial flag.

I mainly look for experimental/test aircraft. Some of the sites I have been to include the X-1A, X-1D, X-2, X-10, X-15, P-59B, XP-80A, XF-14 (YP-80A), XB-51, XB-70, N-9M, Y1B-17, YB-49, YF-104A, NF-104A, and many more. I have donated numerous artifacts to the Air Force Flight Test Center Museum, National Atomic Museum, CIA Museum, and others. In recent years, I have spent a lot of time escorting surviving familiy members to crash sites.

Shadowhawk,

Thank you for all of the wonderful information you have shared on Aerospace Archeology. You certianally have a very exciting hobby. the stuff you learn from these trips must be increadible. I have one more question:

Do you have one site that is your all time favorite?

Tim

I would have to say my favorite crash site is that of the third Lockheed A-12 (Article 123 / AFSN 60-6926) that crashed on 24 May 1963.

It never flew Mach 3 because it was lost early in the OXCART program when the airplane was equipped with J75 engines, but it went down during a test flight from Area 51. The pilot (Ken Collins) ejected safely, so it was a non-fatal accident. I have had the pleasure of meeting Ken and talking with him at Roadrunners reunions.

At the time of the accident, the A-12 was a truly "black" program. The existence of the airplane, or any related variant, was still classified. The loss of the airplane on public land, relatively close to a large civilian population center, and the need for extreme secrecy made this a classic government crash retrieval effort straight out of some of the best UFO crash stories. Personnel from Area 51 quickly secured the site to prevent unauthorized access. The recovery crew received specific orders to remove every trace of the aircraft from the scene. Clean-up was top priority, even above investigation of the cause of the accident. A cover story was generated to throw news media off the scent. A newsman who claimed to have photos of the crash site was induced to give up a major scoop.

Did the government suceed? I had to know the answer.

The search for the wreck site was both frustrating and rewarding. You can read the full story here:
www.dreamlandresort.com...