ATS Email Special: Capitalism Endgame

The camps are manufacturing their calling - all roads but Big Daddy's lead to Rome.

Democracy is not a hot house flower, impenetrable in a purdah of inviolate perfection. 'Democracy is a tenuous ideal always 'under-siege' by terror and greed. Violent upstarts and current dilemmas, unarguably the fault of dark age retentions, not CIA moles or financially supported dictators.

Troublesome amendments protecting Democracy's constitution are only validly redefined by what's emulated in powerful people. Throwing citizens who might disagree, in the future, or disagree now, into torture camps for a neighborly bounty.

Democracy is not free speech, or the right to a lawyer, government of the people, for them, or by them. Democracy is daddy's right to redefine, and all his little chickens will agree, or the name calling will exceed to expletive.

Democracy doesn't guarantee a right to privacy - only the guilty have something to hide. And if they don't approve of your manners - it's off to respect camp for the bride.

True to the psychology of underhanded bullies - only the suicidal disagree. So 80 year old grannies, fighting for the right to give a few over-priced prescription pills away, are shot down in a blaze of glory - and media commiserates with the police.

I have a sneaking suspicion that there have been some actions taken to slow the growth of the herd's assets. That would be the manipulation of the stock market. The following is an article that details many examples of market manipulation.

www.afajof.org...

I do believe that since the market has become accessible to the many the the few have taken action to reclaim it. How much money was lost in the 2000 recession? Who benefits when the market goes down like that? I also am not blaming the rich foir anything, however, I do feel there is a 'group' somewhere who call the shots.

Originally posted by polanksi
I have a sneaking suspicion that there have been some actions taken to slow the growth of the herd's assets. That would be the manipulation of the stock market. The following is an article that details many examples of market manipulation.

www.afajof.org...

I do believe that since the market has become accessible to the many the the few have taken action to reclaim it. How much money was lost in the 2000 recession? Who benefits when the market goes down like that? I also am not blaming the rich foir anything, however, I do feel there is a 'group' somewhere who call the shots.

Now as full time options trader, that is something a certainly CAN agree with you on.. at least the part of market manipulation to try make money at the expense of the retail trader and regular investor.

The moment anyone puts money at risk in the stock market, they are entering a den of lions where traders and hedgefunds will do ANYTHING to try and relieve you of your savings, pension etc. This though is motived by simple, personal greed. The hedge fund manager who made 50 million one year wants to make 100 million the next. This money has to come from somewhere, but they don't care where. they'll happliy take it from each other just as the'll take it from the mom and pop mutual fund investor.

The amateur investor is know to them as "paper", and are seen as suckers, ripe for the fleecing.

The little guy can find his or her way, if they educate themselves and learn how it works, but those who follow their broker's, or Jim Cramer's, or CNBC's advice are simply food for the Wall St machine and will be spat out once they've been sucked dry of juice.

I DON'T see this as part of any organised plan by a single, controlling group of people. There are far too many "wanna-be" top dogs people in the financial world who would unseat the top group at the drop of a hat if they could. the rich compete with each other, not the unwashed masses.

The good news is that for those who are prepared to learn, they don't need to be at the mercy of Wall St crooks. I've survived and flourish for three years now in this bear pit... but then again I'm not greedy. I'll happily take the scraps left over by the big boys.

It's still a reasonable living, and I've alway been happy to teach anyone who asks how do to exactly the same. Anyone can do it. Oddly though, in three years of trading.. only 2 people have EVER actually shown an interest in learning. That's why I know the main thing keeping people poor, is themselves.




[edit on 1-5-2007 by nowthenlookhere]

[edit on 1-5-2007 by nowthenlookhere]

Originally posted by nowthenlookhere
That's why I know the main thing keeping people poor, is themselves.

BINGO. Gold star, sir, gold star.

This inconvenient truth is largely ignored or covered up, particularly by socialist politicians seeking the support of the struggling middle-class and those poor, persecuted minorities come election day. Your poverty isn't your fault, it's The Man holding you down! We will liberate you! We will level the field! We will bring The Man to his knees and redistribute his wealth! Workers unite!

Belly-aching Marxist hogwash, but it's exactly the message that uninspired, unmotivated losers want to hear. And, yes, I'm calling America's poor a pack of dimwitted and easily-manipulated losers... Hey, my poverty really isn't my fault after all! It's the wealthiest 1% holding me down! I really am being used and I really do deserve a free ride!

And what's most hilarious is that these socialist instigators (call them liberals, Democrats, Progressives, or whatever) are themselves among the wealthiest 1% in the nation — elitist millionaire (and billionaire) snobs who couldn't find their way back to down-home America with a roadmap. These are the power-junkies who are preying on the ignorance of America's poor, in a very real sense enabling the poor to persist in their uninspired and unmotivated lifestyles.

— Doc Velocity

[edit on 5/1/2007 by Doc Velocity]

Everyone on this planet consciously pursues their interests and it’s no different for the rich. Of course they conspire to keep themselves wealthy.

surf911

So if so many countries the IMF has invested in have been helped by their debt relief, how many of those countries have managed to fully pay off their debt and enjoyed the betterment the money has brought?

Doc Velocity
C'mon, people, just face the fact that Capitalism works and will continue to work even as the leaders of our nation and the respected economists and the fuming Marxists and the frantic socialists and the foaming conspiracy theorists all sound their respective doomsday alarms.

The reason capitalism has worked for so long is because of superior mobilization of force and viloence. Any competing system that has tried to rise up has be demonized, attacked, and crushed so it will never rise again.

why are people here jumping from one extreme to the other and whether poor people deserve the situation....they can help it if they try.... blah blah blah. dont be such a arogant tit, the world doesnt work in extremes. What about all the people inbetween with their own identities and individual problems. U have a very patronising way of talking about "poor people" sir.

Originally posted by InSpiteOf
The reason capitalism has worked for so long is because of superior mobilization of force and viloence. Any competing system that has tried to rise up has be demonized, attacked, and crushed so it will never rise again.

Tell the whole truth... Other systems have tried and other systems have died, crushed by the people themselves once they engage in and reap the rewards of capitalism. Violence isn't even necessary for the subjugation of lesser systems — just give the people a taste of capitalism, and they'll abandon their own ineffective and unrewarding systems every time. The only people complaining about capitalism are those who lack the initiative and, indeed, the intelligence to embrace the system and make it work for them — and the wealthy who complain about capitalism are hypocritical LIARS.

— Doc Velocity

As of the privileged class, I can agree this is probably correct. On the other hand, the citizens of this country are better off than any other inx any nation.

Tax revenues hit a record high to the federal government last Friday and half the people in this country don't pay any federal income tax whatsoever. Meanwhile, far more money is being given out to non-taxpayers than goes to all the military put together.

One more point: More than one-half of the U.S. population is receiving a check (or paid directly to their bank accounts) from the federal government, thanks to the half who pay taxes. Get over it.

Originally posted by Doc Velocity
Tell the whole truth... Other systems have tried and other systems have died, crushed by the people themselves once they engage in and reap the rewards of capitalism. Violence isn't even necessary for the subjugation of lesser systems — just give the people a taste of capitalism, and they'll abandon their own ineffective and unrewarding systems every time. The only people complaining about capitalism are those who lack the initiative and, indeed, the intelligence to embrace the system and make it work for them — and the wealthy who complain about capitalism are hypocritical LIARS.
— Doc Velocity

Your absolutly right, show the people what wonderful trinkets they can have in place of social services and they jump ship. It happened at the fall of the USSR and its probably happened elsewhere. Of course what some people who just jumped ship seem to think is that the government will still give them all the benefits they had previously, while being able to enjoy the profits and trnkets of the new capitalist order.

As for the people that complain not knowning how to use the system to their advantage, well tell the people of Zaire that all they have to do is use the system to their advantage to break the poverty cycle.

[edit on 1-5-2007 by InSpiteOf]

I came from a very poor family. My mother going hungry to make sue we had enough to eat. I have been dirt poor most of my adult life. I have tried to get different home businesses off the ground with varied success. Some doing poorly some doing pretty well. About a year and a half ago I took a small amount of money and started buying and selling options. I lost most of it by getting greedy. I was trying to get another idea (importing and selling clothing) of mine off the ground while trading options and once my option career bit the dust I dove head first into the textiles biz. A year and a half later I make more money then 98% percent of Americans. I am about to purchase a small condo, I drive a newer nicer car then I have ever drove, ect, ect. I will be the first to admit it is alot easier to make money once you have some, but anyone can make money if they work hard. I'm not a genius, I work my as* off every day. I watch my spending. I don't waste my money on drugs and other bullsh**. When I see $100 I find ways to turn it into $200. I remember about 4 years ago I would only have a dollar a day for food, but I kept working hard I didn't give up.

Originally posted by polanksi
ATS Special: Capitalism Endgame

Kudos
It's not often enough I get to learn so much in one sitting, and I was schooled on these particulars.

Are the power elite 'conspiring' to promote their good fortune at the expense of the working class?

It's Domestic Imperialism, the science of greed and exploitation. Everyone knows someone who's greedy and likes to control & destabilize people. Now imagine if they were given power. Do you think they'll just stop being greedy? Do most people get into power on accident? Recent college edition Sociology (social science) textbooks say no.

There would be many who would say that it would involve too many people and thus highly unlikely.
But how many people would have to know?

It's called, that's the way our society is programmed. We're conditioned our entire lives to be selfish and self-serving. In a society like this it's virtually impossible to not have this scenario to occur. I call it "pseudo-individualism", because at the end of the day, noone is individual as they think, as everyone is doing the same thing and only worrying about themselves.

But, it turns out that conspiracies involving thousands of people happen successfully more than one would think:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

They would practice to deceive, prevaricate, bully, lie and use the 'system' to protect and preserve their 'rights.'

Welcome to the imperialistic reality. That reality permeates and we're indoctrinated our entire lives to be that way too (selfish and 'overcompetitive').

This edifice that provides and protects the elite certainly did not arise overnight. It has incrementally been built up over the years.

Operant Conditioning:
en.wikipedia.org...

There seems to be mounting evidence that there is some collusion or conspiracy to enrich the wealthy at the expense of the struggling middle, but clearly more evidence would be needed to prove the case.

He work for their "interests", and their interests are furthering themselves over others. It's the same thing we're all taught through operant conditioning our entire lives.

There has been much said about the widening gap between the wealthiest Americans and their poorer counterparts.

Corporate Dogmatism has engineered a system of extreme capitalism with their influence, power and "rights" as entities as you and I have as pseudo-individuals.

The next Australian election at the end of this year will be decided on this issue.

www.news.com.au...

Read the last sentence.Folks are finally realising what's going on,all major cities had student protest marches today.

Originally posted by Perfect Fifth
...me want to cry sometimes thinking about it :-(. It don't wish it on people, but people in general really don't want to pay any attention to it.


[edit on 30-4-2007 by Perfect Fifth]

[edit on 30-4-2007 by Perfect Fifth]

I hear you here more than on any other point you made. However, I don't think it is a matter of not wanting to pay attention to it but more that they have been educated to ignore it. People are educated to go after the toys that they want no matter how much debt they go into. The biggest push lately is the mortgage refinance push. Yes, people are so far upside down now in their mortgages that they cannot hold onto their houses anymore. They can never move into a less expensive living situation because they don't have $50k plus to sell their current home. Then the 'lie' that is interest will jump up on them in a couple years and 'bang' their dead.

Yet, they are told it is all okay. That's where the problem is.

Some very good points made so far.

Firstly I'd like to bring inflation into the discussion with this:

Inflation is the silent theft of wealth

Since the poor and middle classes are less able to protect themselves against inflation than the rich - it follows that inflation redistributes wealth upwards.

I'd also like to introduce the idea of labour inflation as well. If there is an increase in the supply of labour for a given demand, then labour is worth less and wages go down. Now think of that in terms of immigration and border control.

Others have posted on the self serving traits of individuals and society in general. I'm inclined to agree with them regarding people who do not have the luxury of time to ponder the world around them in more depth.

Contrary to what the unwashed masses believe, the constitution was largely designed to limit the influence of corporate power - and since it's inception has been under steady and successful erosion by corporate interests. There is a revolving door between goverment and corporate lobbyist as an occupation just as there is between regulatory agencies and corporate jobs.

Democracy is a joke without representation and representation is a joke without access to the representatives. How many of the population have access to their representatives beyond sending a letter? Compare that with the access that those in the video clip with G.W.B. above enjoy and then you have an idea of who is really being represented.

A corporate entity nowadays has "rights" far beyond the rights of a "real" or "natural" person. That's right - FAR BEYOND.

Has anyone read Ted Naces book - "Gangs of America: The Rise of Corporate Power and the Disabling of Democracy"?

It can be downloaded for FREE from here:
www.gangsofamerica.com...

I think this book goes a long way towards defining the anecdotal "preponderance of evidence" refered to in the original OP.

Whoever mentioned that thing about the rich preferring a drop in their wealth rather than a narrowing of the gap by the poorer getting wealthier - what a fascinating proposition. One in which the gap is not so much about wealth - but about power. I tkind of goes like this.......

Beyond a certain level of wealth, one does not need to enter into debt.

Beyond a certain level of wealth, one does not need to pay for insurance.

Beyond a certain level of wealth, one does not need to WORK for someone else.

Beyond a certain level of wealth, one's children do not need to WORK for someone else.

Beyond a certain level of wealth, one does not need WORK at all.

Now, this last line above describes the very wealthiest. However for them to survive - someone has to do their share of work in proportion to the lifestyle they choose. If everyone was as wealthy as they were, or even just wealthy enough to not have to work for someone else - they'd say - "Screw you ya lazy fat b***h, do it yourself."

If only half of them were wealthy enough to not have to work for someone else - then they'd probably have to pay the remaining half twice as much to do the work (supply/demand). Savvy?

Now relate this to the idea I proposed at the beginning - Labour inflation/Immigration/Border control.

So that's the game, the poor have to NEED what the wealthy have plenty of - otherwise why would they clean their pools, work in their factories or wipe their asses for them?

[edit on 9-5-2007 by News Junkie]

[edit on 9-5-2007 by News Junkie]