Thanks Kelldor. I just decided to join there myself! We need to return to the Constitution. We need to remove anyone in office who has a problem with using that document. And we need to remove those judges who twist and distort it to fit the agenda of big business and the power brokers.

Long Live The Constitution!!!!!

Originally posted by Leyla
It was written for a reason and no one should call it outdated. Anyone who states that, they don't love America.

Well, technically it IS outdated. That's not a bad thing. It's merely the slow lumbering of time that has detracted from the true intents of the document that was so eloquently put together so many years ago. Well, time and the corrupt government that seems to exercise control over manipulating it.

Being outdated simply means that it needs some revisions, which any document that has any hopes of standing up to the tests of time will have to undergo.

And that doesn't mean that I don't love America just because I think that the Constitution is outdated. It's a statement of fact that it needs at least a modernizing. The initiative mentioned a few posts back is a great way to enact this, I think.

TheBorg

I drive an '83 chevy pickup, rebuilt in a lot of places, but a fine and serviceable vehicle. Upkeep and repairs are the key. Our Constitution only needs a few minor touches as well. Because it was designed in the horse and buggy era, these new roads we travel leave it in a position to be ruined through the neglect of our leaders.

Jefferson said that a revolution was needed every so often, and upgrading the Constitution is one form of that. The base of the word revolution and revitalize are the same. We do not need to scrape that grand old lady, we need to strengthen her.

Well said Borg.

[Edited by NGC for left out word.]

[edit on 17-5-2007 by NGC2736]

How can there be secession without nationalism, or states for that matter? The United States has become a nation with diversity but not multiple nationalities. Therefore the only possible division in the United States is civil war ... not secession.

It's always possible for factions to try and fight for power of a government but it is now impossible that these factions would fight for the sovereignty of some state since there is no national identity.

In 1860 the Southern States still had individual national identities.

I'd also like to point out that the Confederates hated the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution. Confederates also despised Thomas Jefferson whom they lauded just 20 years before. The South under-went a revision of history between the years 1830 and 1860 due to elitists who wanted to keep the status quo. The Civil War was their power-play and had VERY VERY little to do with the defense of any rights.

It was all about conflict of elites.

Southern Slave owning elites not wanting to lose their authority to industrial elites of the north.

This is evident through-out the era as is seen in the Southern rejection of monies to build railroads because these railroads would then be owned by Northerners.

It seems like it's time for something....

I get frustrated that we talk and talk and talk and yes this and that is bad, but nobody is doing anything about it but talking and talking and talking.

I think the reason that nobody does anything is because I think most people are of the opinion that the nation could be saved if we simply make the necessary changes.

Or that the problems we have will simply just go away.

Or that the legal system could be used to correct the problems.

Initiating a civil war would not be a solution to the problems that we have. How can we be critical of the Bush war if we think war will solve our problems.

Separating from the nation is a possible answer, but the geographic constraints make it difficult to stay protected from a government that would no doubt violently reciprocate.

The only solution I can see would be going to another country to live. But I think that decision should be made soon before other countries keep us from doing that.

I see this going into a Yes it is!! No its not!! argument. I thought thats what the government was doing all this time adding new admendments to it.

Dosen't matter how old the Constitution is, its still our backbone. Just please don't get me started about these GOP bozo's. Check the Ron Paul thread in the 9-11 section.

Originally posted by Leyla
I see this going into a Yes it is!! No its not!! argument. I thought thats what the government was doing all this time adding new admendments to it.

I don't want to argue about it. What this forum is to me is a place to hammer out ideas in an organized fashion, so that I may better present them when the time comes for me to do so.

Dosen't matter how old the Constitution is, its still our backbone. Just please don't get me started about these GOP bozo's. Check the Ron Paul thread in the 9-11 section.

Agreed on all statements here. We see eye to eye mostly. We just disagree on the concept of it being outdated is all. If that's all that we disagree on, then we'll be well off. I look forward to talking about this more if you'd like.

TheBorg

I thought in light of the imminent decision on whether the citizens of this failed republic have the right to bear arms, I should give my old thread a bump.

Tomorrow, (or today depending on your time zone), the imperialist stooges in black robes will once again draw upon their vast arrogance to interpret the document that this Republic was founded upon. Over the course of the last century, these lifetime appointed charlatans have decided the fate of this once great nation, and tomorrow I fear that they will destroy its' last defense the people have to protect it. I am of course speaking of the second amendment. Tomorrow these paltry nine will decide if we the people are deemed under the Constitution to have the right as a populace to defend ourselves against outside invaders, marauding subhuman criminals and yes, the very government itself that has the arrogance to dare strip this once great nation of the right to self defense against all threats foreign and domestic. I as a simple citizen of the Republic and a descendant of Confederates, am shocked that we as a nation of free people have fallen to this state of despotism.

I will not devolve this thread into a "gun" rant. My intentions are to merely broach the subject once again that I believe it is time as sovereign states to
reassess the original agreement of these "United""States. The very fact that the subject of whether the second amendment is Constitutional or not in certain areas like D.C and NYC is Orwellian. How could we deny the rights to people within our country to carry legal firearms to defend their families, while at the same time allowing it for the rest of the country? I ask you this, would it be logical to deny the people of NYC or D.C. the right to the 1st amendment? Then why is it logical to deprive them of the 2nd amendment?
I fear that these charlatans will attempt to declare that the 2nd amendment does not apply to the common citizen and will therefore decide that as the last "free" nation on Earth who allows its' voting populace to own firearms, that it is best for all of us to proceed to the nearest collection center and lay down our weapons. Well I for one have a slight problem with that, as I am sure a vast amount of my fellow citizens do as well. What these arrogant elitists fail to recognize is that the very attempt to seize the lawfully owned firearms of this Republic will be met with a slaughter unseen on domestic soil since the 1860's. I am afraid they will lack the resources in manpower within days to render unto Caesar what is due him.

If they decide foolishly tomorrow, this is the very spark that will change the face of this country.

[edit on 26-6-2008 by shai hulud]

It is far past time for secession.

The U.S. needs to be balkanized in order to avoid complete catastrophe.

Let the jesus freaks have the south, the fruits and nuts have California, the morons and socialists can take the northeast, and freedom loving people can have the upper midwest and the great plains.

Just thought I might bump this thread in light of the recent situations at hand. Just curious about some opinions either way on a VERY old subject.

Oh come on. didn't you see what happened when wall street's elevator lost a cable? The American people have always had the reins of power. It's called "your money in the bank". When people get tired of these banks hoarding money and all the govt. bs behind it, they just might pull their cash and make wall street look like a cake walk. You have more power than you realize, America.

"So often times it happens
That we live our lives in chains
And we never even know we have the key"

---The Eagles

As I right this, I look above and see peering down on me the overbearing and ominous "The Issue of "Hate Speech" On AboveTopSecret.com". Hate speech.....? I am at a quandary that the very forum that ALL ideas are open to discussion in a civil and honorable forum. My thread was about secession by states that would pass through on a STATE legislative vote, a split from the beast that is the Federal Government. I see now this will never occur without EXTREME bloodshed. Hate Speech....what have we as a Republic come to. The very forum that WE as free thinkers are now regulated by "Hate Speech"? The first amendment....just a memory now. God forbid someone, somewhere is offended.

In the years to come, all of you that have forgotten what this country was founded on, will realize that in this plane of existence what the true nature of freedom and self/family preservation is.....sacrifice. We as a "nation" will endure unimaginable hardships that we cannot fathom. I feel for the weak, old but not the youth. The easy route is just that....easy. The hardships of the ones that came before must never be forgotten, ever. Freedom is not free.

As we spiral into this One World Order, we will split as a nation. It will be along cultural, racial, economic and historical lines. The states are SOVEREIGN, and this nation is and has always been divided. This entity, both parties and either McCain or Obama have no respect for the Constitution. All of them.

So.. What are we to do? I as a free citizen...in an occupied territory, and by God's grace(I am a pagan an heathen by lifestyle, but I will die by the Cross, Not narrow minded bible thumping idiocy..personal choice ...it is black and white..not race but spiritual) , I have but one thing to say to this filth ridden world and the regime 5th column that has wiped their ass with the Constitution for the last 148 yrs......GIVE THEM THE BAYONET!

My friends, foes and the ones who I have met on common ground, this shall be my last post. This has been an extreme education, as well as a discovery of enlightenment on so many topics. I wish you all well and may you all find peace and glory in your own way.

When their boot is on your throat, you have nothing to lose.

Sláinte Mhath! Deo Vindice!

Godspeed and long live FREEDOM!...been a pleasure.


[edit on 11-2-2009 by shai hulud]

It has been time for a long time now.

I hope to see someone stand up to this corruption, sadly it seems like no one has a desire to be free anymore.

Wouldn't it just be easier for y'all to move to Libya? After all, that's exactly the kind of government you guys really want.

I am just thinking of practicality here, you guys don't like America, you hate the constitutionally elected government, you despise all but the 2nd Amendment. So, why don't you just move out of the country, leave the rest of us to wallow in the horror that we made this country.

I am sure that Qaddafi wouldn't mind bringing you into the country.

I mean really, if this country is so damn horrible in your opinion that you feel that your only option left is to start blowing away fellow Americans, LEAVE! Go somewhere else! Go to Somalia, I hear there's not any law at all over there.

Think about it, you could have your conservative utopia of intolerance xenophobia, bigotry, sexism, and pure hate!

In fact, I think if y'all agree, we could work together and I think those commie liberals would be more than happy to pitch in to get you all shipped over there.