The Great SRA Debate

This forum is a perfect locale for this thread.

Satanic Ritual Abuse or Ritual Abuse. The term came to the fore of world-wide media during the early 1980's and continues to this day.

This thread has been started for members to seek out the truth of this phenemenon. Is there truth to these horrible stories or is it so much smoke?

If these stories are truthful; why has the media turned it's gaze away from these cases?

If they are the fabrications of fevered minds, why were they given so much media attention in the 1980's, and by some of the biggest names in the industry?

What is the history beyond the 70's and 80's?

The subject has been been discussed many times on these boards, and discussion has become quite heated. Let's all try to keep it civil and discuss this topic in a rational manner.

If you have information for or against I would like to see it collated in this thread, backed by links.

Let's try and work together to discover from where the disinformation and deflection is coming concerning SRA.

The first case I will cite is probably the most well known:

The McMartin Pre-School case

"They're putting on witnesses who they know are lying. They concealed exonerating evidence. Don't we have enough criminal conduct by the prosecutors to put them behind bars?"
"It doesn't work that way," the lawyer laughed. "The law is just for the little people. When we break the rules we go to jail. When they break the rules they go to lunch...."
"But what about the law?" the woman gasped. "What about the Constitution?"
"I'm afraid that's just one of those nice, comforting fantasies like the tooth fairy. There are two classes of people. Those who hold power and those who do not. And in any dispute the guys who hold power will decide which way it's going to go....I hope you understand that this is not about child abuse, just as McCarthyism was not about Communists."
--- Eberle, Paul and Shirley. The Abuse of Innocence: The McMartin Preschool Trial ( 1993) (reporting a discussion between a friend of the Buckeys and a defense lawyer)

Link

This most infamous of SRA trials ended in a hung jury.

The jurors had no doubt that the children had been abused, just who the perpetrators were could not be ascertained.

Today, McMartin has been denounced as a cruel hoax perpetrated on the Buckey family, causing them much anguish.

Is there any evidence to support the allegations of the children?

Here in the USA, the very word of a minor can lead to a conviction when one is charging sexual abuse.. Having said this, I am sure you all are aware that whenever anyone makes an accusation of a prominent social figure related to this matter they get "the royal treatment"..... UNTOUCHABLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!! When speaking of SRA one would have to define the term...
So who is going to attempt a definition in the maintream media?....
The same people who have coined the term "False Memory Syndrome"?..


This is , at best, a difficult subject to debate. There are limited resources available for consideration or "proper" research. Resources are the key.
Some eight years ago, I ordered a copy of a book written by Fritz Springmeier on mind control. This turned into a difficult read for me for various reasons.

The religious factor will have to be taken into consideration when trying to disect the matter. I believe this may be the hardest part of the whole experience for some because of their own moral creed.


I am quite sure there are some people out there who just want attention.
I am also convinced that there is a real problem here. The choice is left to the observer as to how much faith a person has in his/her community.

(my 2 cents)

[edit on 3-5-2007 by amfree86]

Good points amfree86,

I would like to discuss your views concerning the FMSF.
It would seem that those that have coined the term "False Memory Syndrome" do, in fact, hold sway over the definition of SRA in the mainstream. The success of this prolonged media campaign is curious. As the members of the FMSF have pushed their views and ridiculed the very thought of organised ritualistic abuse.

But is there a hidden agenda here?

The founder of the FMSF, Dr. Ralph Underwager was forced to resign from the Foundation under a cloud after comments he made to pro-pedophile magazine 'Paidika'.

PAIDIKA: Is choosing paedophilia for you a responsible choice for the individuals?

RALPH UNDERWAGER: Certainly it is responsible. What I have been struck by as I have come to know more about and understand people who choose paedophilia is that they let themselves be too much defined by other people. That is usually an essentially negative definition. Paedophiles spend a lot of time and energy defending their choice. I don't think that a paedophile needs to do that. Paedophiles can boldly and courageously affirm what they choose. They can say that what they want is to find the best way to love. I am also a theologian and as a theologian, I believe it is God's will that there be closeness and intimacy, unity of the flesh, between people. A paedophile can say: "This closeness is possible for me within the choices that I've made."
Paedophiles are too defensive. They go around saying, "You people out there are saying that what I choose is bad, that it's no good. You're putting me in prison, you're doing all these terrible things to me. I have to define my love as being in some way or other illicit." What I think is that paedophiles can make the assertion that the pursuit of intimacy and love is what they choose. With boldness, they can say, "I believe this is in fact part of God's will." They have the right to make these statements for themselves as personal choices. Now whether or not they can persuade other people they are right is another matter (laughs). Link

This interview also contains comments by another FMSF member Hollida Wakefield. Comments suggesting that all sexuality is learned and can be "un" learned.

If a homosexual did not want to be homosexual, really wanted to be a heterosexual, there would be techniques that would have a decent chance of allowing that person to change. I'm not saying the person should want to change. I'm only saying that there is an element of choice.

Try telling that to some of the gay people I know.

Thankyou Beelzbubba. When one wants to cover FMSF and the the characters involved there, I believe testimony of certain witnesses need to be taken into account. I dont know how popular this subject is with the ATS crowd, so forgive me if I seem to be repeating previous posts.... As I mentioned before, I think Springmeier has the most comprehesive work available on the subject....(my 2 cents) ................................................................................................................Springmeier states that Martin T. Orn was one of the founders of the FMSF and has CIA ties...... I believe it is important for me to add that there is a very broad net that has been cast to conceal any attempted leak of hard evidence. One would have to understand If you were to take claims of SRA as an absolute, you would with certainty have to believe in a larger conspiracy of well placed individuals within our collective communities, be they called Illuminati/NWO/satanists or whatever..............According to Springmeier in his book, "Bloodlines of the Illuminati", financial statements for the Reynolds bloodline show some interesting patterns....(As I am from N.Carolina I have been able to confirm these accounts through local newspaper archives/ Library/microfiche/ etc....) 1984 & 1989 Financial statesments/disclosures show the following: Child Care Resources of N.C.:$25,000

On the Paidika topic, I as many believe they are a terrible sort. With respect to the FMSF, I would add that a cursory look into Martin T. Orn would show ties to the CIA. He is another co-founder of the group.. Granted, If you have university ties in America, its not hard to link intelligence groups to professors and the like..................................I believe if one would choose to give credit to the SRA story, the belief of well placed individuals within our own communities for the purpose of countering any real evidence is likely..Be they called Illuminati/NWO/Satnists/etc...............................................................................In my own opinion, I believe a broad net has been cast to conceal any would-be accusations and they are very well placed....As I stated before, I believe Springmeier is a well rounded resource for this subject....Let me try to qualify that by saying there isnt a large quantity of material available on the subject.... I have read "survivor" accounts, But few have delt with the detail of Springmeier. ...................................................................................................................................................... ...................................................................................................................................................... ............................................................................................................................."bloodlines of the Illuminati" reveals that there are some interesting bonds between the Bloodlines and the the foundations they support. I submit only one foundation for review, the subject is again left to the observer.............................................................................................................Z. Smith Reynolds foundation: 1984 &1989 financial disclosure..................................................................................................... Child Watch of N.C.--$25,000.00 Contact of Winston/Salem---$15,000.00 Family and Children Services of Greater Greensboro---$15,000.00 Planned Parenthood of Greater Raleigh & Orange Co.---$15,000.00(each) YMCA of Winston/Salem---$300,000.00 OUTERBANKS Crisis Hotline--$5,000.00 Family & Childrens services of Greater Greensboro---$5,000.00 Advocates for Children in Court---$25,000.00 Child Care Resources of N. Carolina$40,000.00 Rape Crisis Center of Ashville, N.C.---$20,000.00 Womens Abuse Center of N.C.$15,000.00 UNC/DUKE Center for Research on Women--$60,000.00 (As I am a native of N.Carolina, records obtained by newspaper archive/library/microfiche confirm these donations) ...................................................................................................................................................... ...................................................................................................................................................... .................Whats the point?...........The bulk of these donations are specific to counseling services. In the event of a person claiming to be victimized, they are caught in the net. Maybe this is a stretch for some to believe, but the system will have its way with anyone claiming SRA. Maybe they should have a "check-up" by the good people at FMSF ????? ........................................................................................................I would like to add this. Not everyone is a bad person in these FMSF groups. It isn't a far stretch to believe that well meaning people are insulated from the bad apples. But that would be part of the disinfo, yeah?.....

[edit on 5-5-2007 by amfree86]

[edit on 5-5-2007 by amfree86]

Well I just saw one of is videos for the Prophecy Club on Google.

Illuminati blood lines and mind control etc..
Well others have written about that as well.

History is nice to talk about but everything else suffers when he says
things like aliens, abductions and mars bases and such, I think hes got
a touch of mind control himself.

Aliens, Abductions and Mars Bases Oh My.

Did he mention CIA at all. Not a word. Perhaps they helped along the
the golden brick road in that direction.

In regards to FMS, does anyone here deny that hypnotism can produce false memories?

SRA may very well in fact be real, but it would be best if we have evidence beyond eyewitness testimony, which has been shown by numerous studies, and not just those regarding SRA, to be inaccurate.

writ.news.findlaw.com...

P.S.

Excellent thought-provoking post, I'm encouraging all to five-star OP and flag this post.

[edit on 17-5-2007 by uberarcanist]

Originally posted by uberarcanist
In regards to FMS, does anyone here deny that hypnotism can produce false memories?

Hypnotism is certainly a method of producing false memories/screen memories. However, most of the children at McMartin gave up their testimony without the use of hypnotism. That is not to say that hypnotism was not used on these children. Some of their testimony was so outlandish and impossible (riding in balloons, being flushed down toilets, etc...) that one must consider the fact that hypnotism may have been utilized by the perpetrators.

What better method to have the testimony of the children discounted than by implanting some of the blatantly impossible scenarios that were recounted.

SRA may very well in fact be real, but it would be best if we have evidence beyond eyewitness testimony, which has been shown by numerous studies, and not just those regarding SRA, to be inaccurate.

writ.news.findlaw.com...

This documentary has been linked numerous times on this site, yet recieves no serious study.

Once again, here is the trashed Discovery Channel documentary "Conspiracy of Silence":

Google Video Link

As an update to this film:

On February 27, 1998, I found that default judgment should be entered against the defendant Lawrence E. King in favor of the plaintiff, Paul A. Bonacci. A trial on the issue of the damages due the plaintiff by that defendant was had on February 5, 1999.
Two counts are alleged against the defendant: King in the complaint. Count V alleges a conspiracy with public officers to deprive the plaintiff of his civil rights, designed to continue to subject the plaintiff to emotional abuse and to prevent him from informing authorities of criminal conduct. Count VIII charges battery, false imprisonment, infliction of emotional distress, negligence and conspiracy to deprive the plaintiff of civil rights. Between December 1980 and 1988, the complaint alleges, the defendant King continually subjected the plaintiff to repeated sexual assaults, false imprisonments, infliction of extreme emotional distress, organized and directed satanic rituals, forced the plaintiff to "scavenge" for children to be a part of the defendant King's sexual abuse and pornography ring, forced the plaintiff to engage in numerous masochistic orgies with other minor children. The defendant King's default has made those allegations true against him. The issue now is the relief to be granted monetarily.
The now uncontradicted evidence is that the plaintiff has suffered much. He has suffered burns, broken fingers, beating of the head and face and other indignities by the wrongful actions of the defendant King. In addition to the misery of going through the experiences just related over a period of eight years, the plaintiff has suffered the lingering results to the present time. He is a victim of multiple personality disorder, involving as many as fourteen distinct personalities aside from his primary personality. He has given up a desired military career and received threats on his life. He suffers from sleeplessness, has bad dreams, has difficulty in holding a job, is fearful that others are following him, fears getting killed, has depressing flashbacks, and is verbally violent on occasion, all in connection with the multiple personality disorder and caused by the wrongful activities of the defendant King.
Almost certainly the defendant King has little remaining financial resources, but a fair judgment to compensate the plaintiff is necessary. For the sixteen years since the abuse of the plaintiff began I conclude that a fair compensation for the damages he has suffered is $800,000. A punitive damage award also is justified, but the amount needs to be limited because of the small effect that such a judgment would have on the defendant King, given his financial condition and presence in prison. I deem the punitive damage award of $200,000 to be adequate.
Dated February 19, 1999.
By the Court
Warren Urborn
United States Senior District Judge

Link

Take a look at Wikipedia's entry on the Franklin Scandal if you wish to see the dissemination of disinformation.

Wiki: The Franklin Coverup Hoax

This is a desperate attempt to discredit what happened in Omaha. These deniers can rant all they want about the entire story being fabricated. Bonacci didn't win his $1 Million civil suit because of a hoax. Facts are facts.

A reading of historical texts concerning Satanic Cultism lends credence to the testimony of many eye-witnesses.

The earliest modern account of Satanic ritual abuse can be found in Freud's letters regarding his therapeautic work with a patient called Emma Eckstein. In the early 20th century, Eckstein described to Freud experiences similar to the ritual abuse survivors of the last few decades, including sexual abuse and ritual bloodletting. Freud was so disturbed by these disclosures that he theorised "we may have before us a residue of a primaeval sexual cult".

Link

This is not entirely true, Freud was amazed that the allegations by Eckstein were very similar to earlier reports that he had access to. From the 14th Century Witch Hunts:

The earliest claims that organized groups systematically and repeatedly torture and kill others in the context of devil worship can be found in the European witch-panics. For instance, in 1334 there was a trial of 63 presumed witches in Toulouse, France, who were accused of worshipping Satan, eating infant flesh, engaging in sexual orgies with others and with Satan himself.

Link

P.S.

Excellent thought-provoking post, I'm encouraging all to five-star OP and flag this post.

Thank You

SRA is going to be difficult at best to prove. The bulk of this field is related to mind-control, as that seems to be a dominate motivation by
the perps. Living in this age, we hear all kinds of things related to mind- control, and how it is achieved. Be they external, internal or subliminal.


The whole concept of "splintering" ones mind to accomodate programing is deeply concerning. If you take at face value the words of survivors, This is their collective belief:

Programming is like a mirror. If this mirror is shattered, It has only changed it's form. It is no longer one, but many mirrors. These are what are refered to as "alters," that can be manipulated and "triggered" to surface on command of the handler/programmer.


It is interesting to note that we all recieve "programming." That is what the media calls their daily routine of radio and T.V. shows.

There is more to this than what is noticed on the surface. Consider these things when watching T.V. or listening to radio. I think you may see things in a different light.

Originally posted by TeslaandLyne
Well I just saw one of is videos for the Prophecy Club on Google.

Illuminati blood lines and mind control etc..
Well others have written about that as well.

History is nice to talk about but everything else suffers when he says
things like aliens, abductions and mars bases and such, I think hes got
a touch of mind control himself.

Aliens, Abductions and Mars Bases Oh My.

Did he mention CIA at all. Not a word. Perhaps they helped along the
the golden brick road in that direction.

My comments here are centered on aliens and the like.....


I don't think Springmeier believes in aliens, but he does believe that survivors have that programmed into their perception=reality.

consider this. Everything a victim has or will experience is monitored and manipulated to further the ends of the guilty. Their perception is the target, manipulated to extreme levels. The victims reality is the prize.

In my own belief, I think that the perpetrators have made giant leaps to conceal their actions in light of recent publicity from survivors. I also believe that victims are used and discarded to ensure total silence.


I submit for review, the following reports for your further consideration.

www.prisonplanet.com...

www.chicagotribune.com...

www.prisonplanet.com...

www.iht.com...

Here's a few websites I found on SRA and ritual abuse issues that prove that ritual abuse definitely exists. These sites have journal articles and scientific data on SRA.

childabusewiki.org...

ritualabuse.us...

Lists of legal cases:

Believe the children (1997). “Conviction List: Ritual Child Abuse”. www.ra-info.org...

The Satanism and Ritual Abuse Archive contains 92 cases as of February 12, 2008. www.endritualabuse.org...

worldwide survey of ritual abuse
extreme-abuse-survey.net...

ritualabuse.us...

Some might like to live in their comfortable cotton wool filled box and pretend things this evil are only make believe.

Ted Gunderson, former Head of FBI, Los Angeles, is a credible source in my opinion, given that he is a highly trained investigator.

He says the CIA are supplying children for Satanic rituals, and I believe him.



[edit on 7/12/09 by NuclearPaul]