A question to all Masons present

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posted on Mar, 27 2004 @ 04:16 PM
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Originally posted by Masonic Light
[quote


I doubt that. The night I received the degree of Master Mason (third degree), I was bombarded by brethren wanting me to immediately sign up for all the other degrees. I think most Masons here had similar experiences, lol.
How many degrees there are depends on which Rite you're talking about. The York Rite has 12 degrees, the Scottish Rite has 33, the Swedish Rite has 10, the Rite of Mitzraim has 90, the Rite of Memphis has 97, etc., etc.
For those interested, Brother Albert G. Mackey compiled a list of hundreds of degrees from the various Rites in his "Encyclopedia of Freemasonry."

Fiat Lvx.



Is that encyclopedia available on the web sir? I find thois an extremely facinating subject.




posted on Mar, 27 2004 @ 04:38 PM
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I don't doubt at all that certain men are working their "secret combinations" through Masonic fraternities. But I also admit, that within FreeMasonry there exists men who wish to help humanity.

So when you read a fanatic Christian website like www.cuttingedge.org... , just be careful that you are cautious about seperating the truth from the nonsense.



posted on Mar, 27 2004 @ 06:15 PM
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Is that encyclopedia available on the web sir? I find thois an extremely facinating subject.


It can be ordered online, but I don't think it can be read online.
It was first published in the 1870's as a 2 volume set, and was out of print for a while. My copies are from 1924, Masonic History Company.
I've seen these books on Ebay, in very good condition, for under $50. There are usually good, hard-to-find, Masonic books on Ebay: someone will find a lot of books in their grandpa's attic or whatever, and put them up for
sale.
If you can't find it on Ebay, you can buy a paperback reprint online from Kessinger, and probably Barnes & Noble and Amazon, who carry Kessinger books.

Fiat Lvx.



[Edited on 27-3-2004 by Masonic Light]



posted on Mar, 27 2004 @ 06:51 PM
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Originally posted by Tamahu
I don't doubt at all that certain men are working their "secret combinations" through Masonic fraternities. But I also admit, that within FreeMasonry there exists men who wish to help humanity.

So when you read a fanatic Christian website like www.cuttingedge.org... , just be careful that you are cautious about seperating the truth from the nonsense.



Yes of course Tamahu, I take everything from wherever with a grain of salt. Which I think means If didn't like the original taste I put salt on it. That one site in particular is what fueled my interest in Freemasonary to start with.



posted on Mar, 27 2004 @ 07:07 PM
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Majick.......Craft..........Destract,Divert,Occupy. Freemasonry is a front organization.

Inner Courts and Outter Courts of the Temple. Ever hear of departmentalization?

left hand doesnt know the right exisits.

They use it in all things. Polarize a mass of people and occupy them(contain).

some Secrets are better off left alone.



posted on Mar, 28 2004 @ 03:00 PM
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i have a question which is primariy rhetorical in nature; have you peop0le ever considered that these men are attempting to have a "closer" relationship with "god" and that is like any other organization for the exception that its tenets require love for their fellow brother(which we all are under the sun). did it ever come to any that mystical experiences that only "god" and fellow followers have cannot be placed into words for the scrupulious ignorant? did it ever come into focus that ignorance and fear are the main factors of control and you have power over these things? im no mason but comon people these enlightened things arent that hard to come by if you have and develop your personal relationship with "god"...


about the lucifer thing it has been noted since prehistory that the condition that humans exist on this planet at this particular "phase" is under the son of god(lucifer, jesus, baphomet, 1st creation of differentation); when we have come to be one this "playground" will be no longer as percieved...

if anything i said was too deep then, you are not making the choice to inner/understand; or you want someone else to do the work for you that is required by yourself in you becoming of a wo/man phase on this planet...



posted on Apr, 4 2004 @ 07:45 AM
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Originally posted by project_pisces
Majick.......Craft..........Destract,Divert,Occupy. Freemasonry is a front organization.

Inner Courts and Outter Courts of the Temple. Ever hear of departmentalization?

left hand doesnt know the right exisits.

They use it in all things. Polarize a mass of people and occupy them(contain).

some Secrets are better off left alone.




Uh you mean; the right hand doesn't know the left hand exists don't you? That must be what that passage in the bible refers too.



I suppose with enough study one could bypass all the outer courts and go strait to the good stuff but I'm assuming it is an irrevocable step.



posted on Apr, 4 2004 @ 07:51 AM
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you have to remember that there will be people that are part of your groups(masons etc...) where there job is disinformation.

there job would be to keep the general public from knowing any truths, so you are probably right there is a lot of rubbish talked about on the internet about the masons that is rubbish, but remember also that in all disinfo there has to be truths otherwise people just will not beliieve.

i know you cannot divulge any secrets, if indeed you are a member of the masons, but i have one question for you

DO YOU FEEL ENLIGHTENED BY YOUR POSITION IN THE MASONS?



posted on Apr, 4 2004 @ 12:16 PM
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Originally posted by andy1033
you have to remember that there will be people that are part of your groups(masons etc...) where there job is disinformation. there job would be to keep the general public from knowing any truths, so you are probably right there is a lot of rubbish talked about on the internet about the masons that is rubbish, but remember also that in all disinfo there has to be truths otherwise people just will not beliieve.


I'm not quite sure what you mean. Freemasonry is a fraternity; it is not a political party, a religious sect, or an information (or disinformation) campaign.
Masonry has been both applauded and vilified by non-Masons for centuries. Traditionally, Masonry and Masons have not found it necessary to respond to critics, as their own arguments are generally crippled by fallacies which most reasonable persons easily discern.
Nevertheless, some are simply weary of being slandered, and have stepped up to the plate in order to cast light on the subject for those who seek the facts concerning it.


DO YOU FEEL ENLIGHTENED BY YOUR POSITION IN THE MASONS?


By my membership in Masonry, no. Masonry in and of itself cannot enlighten anyone.....enlightenment comes from reason, logic, philosophy, and God. Masonry can, however, point one in the right direction, as can many other things. One need not be a Mason to be spiritually or intellectually enlightened, nor or all members of the fraternity enlightened individuals.
Masonry is often viewed by historians, both within and without the fraternity, as the embodiment of the Age of Enlightenment, providing a common ground wherein men of like temperament and ideals may hold fellowship. But, even though Masonry teaches these enlightened principles, it remains the choice of the individual Mason whether or not to put them into practice, while many non-Masons have lived enlightened lives since birth. This is what Dr. Buck, a Masonic author, meant by saying that many Masons are still intellectually of the profane, while many non-members who have never even set foot in a Lodge are Master Masons.

Fiat Lvx.

[Edited on 4-4-2004 by Masonic Light]



posted on Apr, 4 2004 @ 01:24 PM
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Originally posted by Masonic Light
[quote This is what Dr. Buck, a Masonic author, meant by saying that many Masons are still intellectually of the profane, while many non-members who have never even set foot in a Lodge are Master Masons.

Fiat Lvx.

[Edited on 4-4-2004 by Masonic Light]


A Master Mason is a third degree Mason right? Hmmm, scratches head.


[Edited on 4-4-2004 by TgSoe]



posted on Apr, 4 2004 @ 03:39 PM
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A Master Mason is a third degree Mason right? Hmmm, scratches head.

I may be in fact quite wrong but what i think he meant by his statement was that there are non-masons who are as enlightened as those third degree Master Masons. Not that they are in fact Master Masons. A bit of word play on his part i believe but his point was well made. In the end illumination , enlightenment does not happen to someone simply by going through their degrees, but by actually choosing to study and become enlightened.

Fruor veritas est fruor opulentia



posted on Apr, 4 2004 @ 03:42 PM
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A Master Mason is a third degree Mason right?


Yes, but Buck was here using an analogy. Practically anyone who meets the qualifications can be admitted into the Lodge, and receive the degrees of Masonry. But they don't do anyone any good unless he puts the precepts of Masonry into practice.
Here, Buck points out that non-Masons who subscribe to the teachings of the Enlightenment in action as well as thought are, in reality, "Master Masons", because the entire purpose of Masonry is teach this practical philosophy.
There is a great website sponsored by a Buddhist Brother, featuring Masonic Zen koans, one of which illustrates this point ("Peter Gower" is a reference to the Greek philosopher Pythagoras, considered an ancient Patron of Freemasonry; his Greek name was anglicized as "Peter Gower" in the York Constitutions of Masonry in the middle ages) :

Peter Gower addressed his lodge and said, "You are all eating the winemaker’s grapes from the vineyard. If you go on studying Masonry like that, you will never finish it. Do you know that in our entire country there is not one Master Mason?"

Then a craftsman came forward and said, "But surely there are those who teach apprentices and craftsmen and preside over lodges. What about them?"

Peter Gower said, "I did not say that there is no Masonry, just no Master Masons."


www.geocities.com...

Fiat Lvx.



posted on Apr, 5 2004 @ 03:46 AM
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Hi all,

This is my first ever post, so be gentle with me


I've been a Freemason here in the UK for around 16 months now and am a lowly Fellowcraft (2nd degree).

What amazes me is that direct involvement with the organisation causes more confusion than before I became a member. Other members are always quick to point out that there is no conspiracy, that there is little more (other than the secrets of recognition) to know. Mmmm, I smell something fishy.

What's interesting is that they (senior members) say they will happily answer any questions we (junior members) have, but whenever something "probing" is asked, they become evasive. It is a standing joke that they tell us nothing substantial. What is plainly obvious is that the juniors are treated like children who are not capable of understanding a concept and are expected to "wait and see". The hint is that all will be revealed, but I somehow doubt it.

I don't find it particularly disturbing to be kept in the dark as this ignorance merely fuels my curiosity. Yes, if there really is a conspiracy and some mind blowing secret(s), and I am a puppet on a string. So be it. Being a member of any western society these days means you are controlled. There is no such thing as freedom, so my philosophy is: If you can't beat 'em, join 'em.


Am I a fool? Maybe. Am I naive? Probably, to some extent. However, I am also very conscious of the fact that there is much more to Freemasonry than meets the eye, no matter how supposedly "open" the organisation is these days. I'm well aware of the conspiracy theories surrounding this organisation and bear these in mind at all times. Maybe they are all bunkum, but maybe they are all true. Time will tell?!

All the best,
Grey Pilgrim



posted on Apr, 5 2004 @ 06:13 AM
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Thanks for the link Masonic Light, I'll have to induldge later as it is time for me to to go to work.


Do you know by chance if Jesus was a Free Mason or Nights Templar? I have read in several places that he was a Essene which later became the Rosicrusians which later became the knights Templars which later became the FreeMasons.



posted on Apr, 5 2004 @ 11:36 AM
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Do you know by chance if Jesus was a Free Mason or Nights Templar? I have read in several places that he was a Essene which later became the Rosicrusians which later became the knights Templars which later became the FreeMasons.


It is believed that Jesus was either a Mason or a Carpenter; the Greek word in the Gospels as Joseph's occupation literally means "builder". During the era of the Roman Empire, most builders were members of the Dionysian Artificers. Jesus may or may not have been a member of that Society.

Perhaps most importantly, at least from a Masonic standpoint, is that Christ was visited by Magi while an infant. The Magi were the priestly caste of the Persian Zoroastrians, and they were Initiates of the Mysteries of Mithras. It has sometimes been suggested that the “missing years” of Christ not recorded in the Bible (from age 12 to around 30) were at least in part spent with the Magi, studying their Mysteries. Whether or not this is true is only speculation, but the actual teachings of Christ show him to be more closely a Magus than a Jew, at least theologically and ethically. His doctrines were much more similar to the Magi than the Pharisees or Saducees.

The Knights Templar were a fraternal order of monastic soldiers, founded by 9 Frenchman in the middle ages, long after the era of Jesus. Their original purpose was to protect Christian pilgrims from Muslim bandits in the Holy Land. Eventually, the Templars came under the influence of Kabbalism and Sufism, and developed mystical characteristics. They also amassed great wealth, and became friendly with many Muslims and Jews. All this together invoked the wrath of the Vatican, and in one of the most treacherous acts in history, surpassed only by Brutus and Judas, the Roman Catholic Church along with Phillip the Fair arrested the leaders of the Order in a banquet they had thrown in the Templars’ honor. The last Grand Master, Jaques de Molay, confessed under torture to heresy, he later recanted his confession and was burned at the stake (De Molay was 76 years old, which helps explain why he confessed under torture; other Templars who were younger chose to die on the torture rack rather than succumb to falsely admitting heresy); the Order was condemned everywhere in Europe except Scotland, where some Templars escape.
There is a legend that a band of fugitive Templars came to the assistance of Robert the Bruce at the Battle of Bannockburn in Scotland. In token of his appreciation, Robert created the Order of the Thistle of Scottish Knights of St. Andrew, which is now the 29° of Scottish Rite Masonry.

Fiat Lvx.



posted on Apr, 14 2004 @ 12:19 AM
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Originally posted by Grey_Pilgrim
Hi all,

This is my first ever post, so be gentle with me


I've been a Freemason here in the UK for around 16 months now and am a lowly Fellowcraft (2nd degree).

What amazes me is that direct involvement with the organisation causes more confusion than before I became a member. Other members are always quick to point out that there is no conspiracy, that there is little more (other than the secrets of recognition) to know. Mmmm, I smell something fishy.

What's interesting is that they (senior members) say they will happily answer any questions we (junior members) have, but whenever something "probing" is asked, they become evasive. It is a standing joke that they tell us nothing substantial. What is plainly obvious is that the juniors are treated like children who are not capable of understanding a concept and are expected to "wait and see". The hint is that all will be revealed, but I somehow doubt it.

I don't find it particularly disturbing to be kept in the dark as this ignorance merely fuels my curiosity. Yes, if there really is a conspiracy and some mind blowing secret(s), and I am a puppet on a string. So be it. Being a member of any western society these days means you are controlled. There is no such thing as freedom, so my philosophy is: If you can't beat 'em, join 'em.


Am I a fool? Maybe. Am I naive? Probably, to some extent. However, I am also very conscious of the fact that there is much more to Freemasonry than meets the eye, no matter how supposedly "open" the organisation is these days. I'm well aware of the conspiracy theories surrounding this organisation and bear these in mind at all times. Maybe they are all bunkum, but maybe they are all true. Time will tell?!

All the best,
Grey Pilgrim
you should have learned in your first degree..... it is hard to answer the questions because it is easy to let too much information out. it really takes away from the beauty of the next degree. be patience and learn your work. ask questions that pertain to your current or preceeding degree. there should not be any problem answering these. when you are a master mason all your questions reagarding any blue lodge degree can be answered. also remember this is speculative masonry, so even some masons have different opinons regarding some questions, and non participationg members may forget. search out well informed masons, and learn from them.



posted on Apr, 14 2004 @ 12:24 AM
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i hope that you joined to: better yourselef, or serve your fellow man; not to answer some curiosity



posted on Apr, 14 2004 @ 10:47 AM
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I have been studying this subject fiercely for quite a while now. I have four or five books with bookmarks in them. I read on the computer what I can and print and take with me what I hope to read later. After work I start again. I read while watching the tube. And when I finaly lay down at night I give it up after my book has hit me in the face about four times from falling asleep. I'm late to work, my grass is high and my house is falling apart. I really should get a life. Still thinking about joining but have not yet.



posted on Apr, 14 2004 @ 11:01 PM
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Originally posted by TgSoe

... Still thinking about joining but have not yet.


They're doing a one day ritual this summer down in San Diego. You could get all three in a Saturday.



posted on Apr, 15 2004 @ 05:27 AM
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Only thing is its about three thouand miles from my busy life here in Ga. I'm still trying to decide exactly who the invisible side of Masonary is. I think its the Ordo Templi Orientis.




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