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Is John Lear Spreading Disinfo?

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posted on Apr, 30 2007 @ 10:12 AM
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TeslaandLyne, oh god thanks for that laugh. I needed to read more of Rense's nonsense.

The first picture of the so called "White Jet" has been shown in several places in much more detail. It appears to be a Delta 767 (possibly) climbing out after departure. I say "appears to be" because you can tell that it has a dark tail, and similar colors to Delta, but you can't see it in enough detail to be able to conclusively say it's Delta.

The second picture of the so called "White Jet" is one of the F-15s that arrived over NYC after impact of the planes.

It might have been slightly more credible if he had used the same plane types.


Not the exact same angle, but an F-15.



You can clearly see that that picture on Rense's page is a small twin tailed, twin engined fighter.




posted on Apr, 30 2007 @ 10:19 AM
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I see a lot of people on here getting upset saying that people are picking on John or making personal attacks


I really haven't seen a lot of personal attacks as much as I have seen general disagreement. Since when is it wrong to disagree with someone??

I feel like I'm in the US right before we invaded Iraq, if you even questioned the war your were labeled unpatriotic. Same situation here, you have a man making outrageuos claims with zero proof, and yet we are not supposed to question whether or not this man is telling the truth? I certainly will give someone the benefit of the doubt, but I certainly won't follow the man out of town as he plays his flute like the pied piper.

It doens't help that people like Zorgon come in and try and blast everyone for questioning the fact that there is atomsphere on the moon but fails to either see or acknowledge that John claims it to be breathable,

Yeah Zorgon, we must be crazy.


I have an idea, since you are so quick to bash us with a condescending attitude, why don't you go do us a big favor, call Richard Branson, reserve a seat on his ship, have him drop you off and the moon and take a real deep breath. Let us know, I won't hold my breath



posted on Apr, 30 2007 @ 10:36 AM
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Originally posted by kleverone


Well, that depends on if they are claiming that said atmosphere is breathable. Are you saying that it is?


I am saying that the atmosphere on the moon is breathable. That, for short periods anyway, you can stand on the moon, without a spacesuit and breathe normally. (And continue to live, by the way.)



How many people on here believe that it is breathable?


To avoid crashing ATS with your answers to this question please limit your responses and proceed aphabetically by your last name, "A"'s at 12 pm Eastern time, "B"'s at 1 pm and so on. Thanks for your help.



posted on Apr, 30 2007 @ 10:45 AM
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Originally posted by Zaphod58


It appears to be a Delta 767 (possibly) climbing out after departure.


Low over Manhatten? Departure from which airport? A Delta Boeing 767?



posted on Apr, 30 2007 @ 10:52 AM
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Originally posted by johnlear
I am saying that the atmosphere on the moon is breathable. That, for short periods anyway, you can stand on the moon, without a spacesuit and breathe normally. (And continue to live, by the way.)


This question was intended for Zorgon, as I already know your stance





To avoid crashing ATS with your answers to this question please limit your responses and proceed aphabetically by your last name, "A"'s at 12 pm Eastern time, "B"'s at 1 pm and so on. Thanks for your help.


If nothing else John, you certainly do have an awesome sense of humor and deserve respect regardless of your stance. Just not to the point where we are crtitisized and marked with a scarlet letter for not agreeing.




[edit on 30-4-2007 by kleverone]



posted on Apr, 30 2007 @ 10:57 AM
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Originally posted by johnlear
Low over Manhatten? Departure from which airport? A Delta Boeing 767?


I have no idea where it's coming from. It could be coming from well behind the city. And as I said I'm not positive it's a Delta 767, but I don't know many twin engine planes that have a dark and red tail, other than Delta. It's not clear enough to conclusively identify it, but you can see that it's dark over most of the tail, and a little bit of red on it as well.



posted on Apr, 30 2007 @ 11:08 AM
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Originally posted by Zaphod58


I have no idea where it's coming from. It could be coming from well behind the city. And as I said I'm not positive it's a Delta 767, but I don't know many twin engine planes that have a dark and red tail, other than Delta. It's not clear enough to conclusively identify it, but you can see that it's dark over most of the tail, and a little bit of red on it as well.





The picture you are refering to was allegedly taken over Manhatten. For a Boeing 767 to be visible it would have to be very low, below 3000 or 4000 feet. I know of no departure from La Guardia, JFK or Teterboro authorized by the New York Port Authority or the Federal Aviation Adminstration that allows departures directly over Manhatten. Please correct me if I am wrong. Thanks.


niv

posted on Apr, 30 2007 @ 11:40 AM
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If the issue is whether John is spreading disinfo, it is irrelevant whether he has or states unusual views (which he obviously does) or makes money from his UFO interest (which the evidence strongly indicates he does not). What I don't see on this thread is a discussion on relevant evidence, such as his former association with the CIA.

I personally think the idea that John is a disinfo agent as ridiculous as it is paranoid. If so, John must be pretty low down the pool of disinfo agents. The idea that the government would spread disinfo on a speculation website chat board strikes me as unlikely in the extreme and if true, a foolish waste of resources that, if the objective is to spread disinfo, could be better utilized elsewhere.

My view is that John is voicing his own opinion, and does so vigorously, usually politely and enthusiastically. For this he should be congratulated and encouraged to continue doing so, regardless of anyone else's opinion on the substance of his views.



Originally posted by kleverone
Never rub another mans rhubarb.


I included this quote even though I have no idea what it means because it's so d#mn funny.



edited for typo

[edit on 30-4-2007 by niv]



posted on Apr, 30 2007 @ 11:41 AM
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I see a lot of people on here getting upset saying that people are picking on John or making personal attacks

I really haven't seen a lot of personal attacks as much as I have seen general disagreement. Since when is it wrong to disagree with someone??



Well....i would disagree but instead of debating will just refer you to the post you had earlier in the thread about John's breath.



Johnlear:

I willingly held the snipe bag in a hunt?



That was pretty funny. From the edges of random, completely.


This thread seems kind of silly and, just by its very nature, somewhat defamatory. But, i would say that it is better to have your detractors build an arguement in an open forum rather than behind closed doors, right?

You handle people admirably, John. I have spent enough time reading you to know about the merits of your works, but you seem to have solid character. I would advise using your Ignore feature.



posted on Apr, 30 2007 @ 11:52 AM
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Here's a slightly better video. You can tell that it has colors on the tail in this one, but that's about all. I don't have time to find the slightly better quality video that I saw because I'm leaving for a couple weeks very soon. But you can see that there are at least colors on the tail in this video.

www.youtube.com...



posted on Apr, 30 2007 @ 11:58 AM
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Originally posted by Rockpuck
"disinfo" maybe...

I personally just think hes a complete hoax.

But that is of course my opinion.


But he has shown no scientific evidence at all, and many of his claims (soul tower collector thingy?
) are completely "out there" .. I think if he was any other member, he would a been banned for hoaxing.


Hoaxing?! Hoaxing what? His beliefs and opinions? That is simply ridiculous.


Springer...



posted on Apr, 30 2007 @ 11:59 AM
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Originally posted by TeslaandLyne
Think about it.
Who is going to admit to flying a "white jet".

True... but a friend of mine in the Medieval circuit is a mechanic on those "white planes" on the east coast


I had some more links on the white planes, one a ground keeper that used hawks to clear birds from the runway, who says he sees them take off all the time but I lost that link and can't seem to find it on google.. maybe someone else has read this one?



posted on Apr, 30 2007 @ 12:01 PM
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Originally posted by Zaphod58
Here's a slightly better video. You can tell that it has colors on the tail in this one, but that's about all. I don't have time to find the slightly better quality video that I saw because I'm leaving for a couple weeks very soon. But you can see that there are at least colors on the tail in this video.





Whoever he is you can be sure he is not a commercial air transport on an authorized departure from any airport in the New York area under the control of the FAA or New York Port Authority and you can be sure if it was a commerical air transport that we would have been deluged with eye witness reports from the passengers of what the WTC crashes looked like from the air.



posted on Apr, 30 2007 @ 12:02 PM
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So because we don't have anyone coming forward saying "I was on Delta Flight XXX" it can't have been a commercial flight? Sure. If you say so John. I'm not gonna spend my last 5 minutes stressing out over this. I guess it was another holographic plane flying around huh?



posted on Apr, 30 2007 @ 12:24 PM
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Originally posted by Sauron
Like John has said many times, you don't have to believe him.


"NASA Airbrushed UFOs / Lunar Base Towers" Trailer



[edit on 28/4/2007 by Sauron]


ok. let's ALL DON'T BELIEVE JOHN LEAR.

ok. let's ALL DON'T BELIEVE JOHN LEAR.

ok. let's ALL DON'T BELIEVE JOHN LEAR.



posted on Apr, 30 2007 @ 12:25 PM
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Originally posted by kleverone
Well, that depends on if they are claiming that said atmosphere is breathable. Are you saying that it is?


I do not know this yet, though I am looking into it. As I get more info I will share...
But at this point we have at least come to the fact that there IS an atmosphere... considering how many here still claim its not so, despite reports from NASA and other official scientists...

So now its only HOW MUCH that is in question...


One of the other key points is radiation levels... Those suits are NOT good enough to stop it, nor is the shell of say the ISS... yet they survived the recent solar flares...

Then I find NASA papers talking about electromagnetic shielding on ISS... okay so since when did Earth ships get force fields?

Now that Hummer for Mars seems to be running on normal fuel so whats up with that?... Lots more research to do... but at least I am looking

When I said no one really wants proof here that comment was in reference to numerous documents on numerous subjects from official white papers that never get comments or are even read most likely.

The point is that ATS is the forefront of discussing weird stuff aliens government coverups etc. And like was posted here by ImpliedChaos on page 5, ANYONE that comes here with an alternate theory on anything is pounced on by those whose only goal in life seems to be to ridicule people...

I am willing to bet that those people are the REAL disinfo agents, and maybe are paid to attack any ideas that may make people think...

Of course this is just my opinion, I can not prove this... but if Vegas was giving odds....


So for those disinfo agents I say this ITS NOT WORKING
As a matter of fact threads like this only give more support, because even bad publicity is still publicity.... and it keeps the fires of ATS burning brightly

Don't believe me? For the anti John crowd... ask yourself why do you keep coming back? Hmmm yeah thought so...


Originally posted by ImpliedChaos

I also want to know why is that his supporters whenever he is doubted, bring up how many flight hrs he has or how many times he has been around the world as if that is proof that 1) he is an honest man 2)that he is not crazy and 3) he may be exagerrating. But I think that HE believes what HE says ..he thinks its true but that doesnt really mean that it is,



Well I am a "John supporter" LOL and I don't recall ever having brought up his flight record... nor any other achievements he has in his career.But I can say that for the short time I have known him..
1) Yes he is an honest man...
2) He is NOT crazy
3) Well we all exagerate sometimes, its human nature to add a little flare to a story, but yes he does believe what he says and has a lot of material to back it up... The simple fact that he has the negatives for some of those old moon photos is testimony to that... How many outside NASA do YOU know that have 16x20 inch unretouched NASA negatives?

But it seems to me the fact that so many at ATS create John Threads, means you must all really like him LOL


[edit on 30-4-2007 by zorgon]



posted on Apr, 30 2007 @ 01:00 PM
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Originally posted by MrPenny
He's here to pull in the traffic.


Yes, quoting my own post from page 3 here on page 6.

Alright you lurkers; I know you're out there.....sign up and post already!!



posted on Apr, 30 2007 @ 01:11 PM
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Originally posted by zorgon

I would post more but its been done before
and you guys don't really want any proof anyway... I wonder how many of you ever googled "Lunar Atmosphere"


I did perform a search engine query Mr. Zorgon. I was interested in JohnLears opinion. His suggestion that the moon's atmosphere is breathable seems to be at odds with the composition and physical parameters you posted.


John - My question about the peristence of the lunar craters spoke to the issue of erosion. Wind is one of the primary erosion mechanisms here on Earth. If there were a thick atmosphere on the moon I would not expect the smaller craters to last so long. I would expect the side walls to be eroded down and the basins filled in with wind transported particulates.

Doesn't that seem reasonable?



posted on Apr, 30 2007 @ 01:36 PM
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DarkBlueSky,

Well it does fit, if you take the rest of his theories into consideration, such as the idea that we or someone, has been up there mining Helium 3 and creating glass structures for decades, at the very least, and the biproducts are water in the form of steam and oxygen. Many pictures of the moon show cloud-like, smoky, layers over the surface, which would suggest they've succeeded in creating a layer of atmosphere, close to the surface, composed of oxygen and clouds composed of steam, mist, fog.

examples of white misty clouds/fog around structures on moon:

www.thestargates.com...
www.thelivingmoon.com...
www.thestargates.com...



posted on Apr, 30 2007 @ 01:55 PM
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Back to the actual topic of the thread....

Anyone can have an opinion. Or a set of theories. Thats the whole basis of ATS. I, personally, neither believe or disbelieve what Lear happens to post here. I appreciate his efforts and his input, whether they're accurate of not. Its the same I feel about most other members, the exception being the people who show up here claiming to have "Absolute Proof of _____", and then post some rehashed Youtube video.

Plus, a significant amount of ATS discussions are purely speculative. No one has a "better" opinion than anyone else. Its all theoretical, and without any contradictory proof, remains such. Therefore, we can all have varying opinions, an accurate example of which can be seen in this exchange:


Originally posted by johnlear

Originally posted by yfxxx
Well, Mr. Lear has explicitly stated as fact some information, which is demonstrably absolute nonsense (specifically, that the moon has a significant (and even breathable) atmosphere).

I assume you haven't been to the moon yfxxx. Neither have I. So your opinion is as demonstrably absolute nonsense as mine.





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