Originally posted by Terran Blue

Originally posted by redseal
He is 75+ yrs old though, just some food for thought!

RedSeal, do you mean to imply that Mr Lear is a senile, grumpy old man?

LOL

You could take it that way, or you could say 75+ years of knowledge.

I know what I think, its up to you what you think

Originally posted by Prote
Kleverone (lol)

I'm not sure why you are laughing, since you failed to make any point and danced around semantics like you were at a verbal squaredance, thats cool.

So you maintain your agression and want to continue with a semantic argument, fine.

I'm not sure where you got agression from, that sting isn't from me, its the truth smacking you in the face And its not semantics when you are using a word or term out of context.

Your issue seems to stem simply from my use of the word "provable". Perhaps I should clarify this before you rupture something.

Or maybe you could stop assigning new definitions to words as you see fit and stop expecting everyone else to understand what you mean

I can see your confusion but just because we misunderstand is no requirement to write with a certain "tonality".

If by "tonality" you mean not speak facts then, sorry buddy you are out of luck. If I am curt with you it is because time is of the essense for me, the truth does tend to sting though so I see how you could take honesty that way, although I doubt so many would agreee with me and even vote "way above" for me.

By the word "provable", I mean that this tower, as a physical construct, has an ability to be proven... or disproven at some point, with the right means.

Please refer the my "bunk" post about Unicorns

Yes, I do believe it can be proved, this is different to saying that I have proof and I have it right this second. I don't have the means so I remain open to it.

I remain open as well, I just do not subscribe to his ideas like you do, If are going to use a word like provable and tell us to look past if the tower is there, we should be more concerned about what it does

Do you see how stupid this sounds? It is the exact oppisite of reason and logic.

So lets not worry if the unicorn actually exists, we need to focus on what color it is!!! Sorry buddy but how do you expect me to have serious conversation with you, with logic such as that? I mean a unicorn is provable right? More bunk to disregard?

The fact that we could potentially do this at some point, means that someone's claim of a tower is provable... or disprovable. It simply means that it is not impossible to gain proof. If you take this away from the intended manner even after I explained it to you twice, I can't help you further. Most things are provable, whether we have the means or not.

Keep backtracking buddy the cliff is just behind you,

YOU TOLD EVERYONE HERE THAT WE SHOULD NOT WORRY ABOUT A TOWER EXISTING, WE SHOULD WORRY ABOUT WHAT IT DOES, that it is provable. So you made the assumption that is does exist or you would'nt have been so worried about us trying to dertermine if it actually exists. SO don't argue the samantic for a word when you comeplety use it out of context and then try to imply that it can be proven or disproven and then go and say that you never implied it did exist!
THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT YOU DID BY TELLING US NOT TO FOUCS ON THAT? THAT IS IMPLYING YOU BELIEVE SUCH TO BE TRUE!

Why would we bother with the second part of a 2 part question if the first part was crap? You have to clean the crap of your shoes before you going worring aobut the carpet my friend!

The rest of your post was bunk, so I won't respond to it to argue for argument sake.

Because you cannot and you never will, you have no anwers for them,

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE clarify your proven until disproven thoery!!!

that is like saying gulity until proven innocent in the science community.

Continue your obstination if you wish.

If by obstination you mean calling you out on your flawed logic, then I surely will.


If I'm wrong then it seems that most who have posted on this thread on wrong as well, because between the votes U2U's and other psots of agreement that I have recieved from this post alone tells me I msut have said something right

Have a nice day



[edit on 29-4-2007 by kleverone]

Originally posted by Navieko
Only "disinformation" agents I know of at ATS, are all those fools who can't seem to see possibilities outside their own sense of reality. Because they are the ones encouraging and promoting an absolutely boring world, with no change. The sad thing is, theres so many of them here.

If only the likes of Einstein was still here, today...

Yeah, lets just believe everthing we are told and not get anywhere as human beings.
It is healthy to ask questions sometimes, even if you don't get what you want to hear. You might as well live in Lala land otherwise. Maybe we could learn that Mr Lear has some credibility from this discussion, but who knows.... What is there to be afraid of

P.S Steven Hawking just called and is gonna post a comment soon.

[edit on 29-4-2007 by Xeros]

John, isn't it great to be so popular if you were not the viewers of your threads would not be coming back to read what you have to share over and over again.

Do not worry John you have been put in the same company with Hitler and Napolean so I guess this makes you even more famous. LOL Nano Nano Keep on keepen on John. Rik Riley

It's pretty easy for people to take cheap shots a John Ive noticed on here. I wonder how many people on here actually lay down tacks and just hope he steps on one, and leaves a reply that is filled with anger only then to point out that he is angry, big deal. John is a man wih opinions and I'm taking a wild guess here but I think he has feelings like the rest of us.

I for one like the man, and will take no cheap shots here, I bet most on here wouldnt have the nerve to say the things they type on these boards to his face.

I dunno, I just think talking poorly of someone when they can't be fairly expected to defend themself is the lowest form of conversation.

Keep up the good work John.

Originally posted by anathema777
I dunno, I just think talking poorly of someone when they can't be fairly expected to defend themself is the lowest form of conversation.

Keep up the good work John.

I agree with you, No one should make personal attacks against John, totally unnecesary, but his views and opinions are fair game.

Don't post oulandish Ideas if you don't want people to question them.

But I agree the personal attacks against John are uncalled for.

And the last time a checked John was a member here and can defend his beliefs just fine,

You'll excuse me if a happen to challenge someones outlandish ideas, especially when posts them here on ATS as a platform to sell his ideas for money at UFO lectures. That I have to question.

edit-forgot the "s" in personal....twice

[edit on 3-5-2008 by kleverone]

Originally posted by kleverone
YOU TOLD EVERYONE HERE THAT WE SHOULD NOT WORRY ABOUT A TOWER EXISTING, WE SHOULD WORRY ABOUT WHAT IT DOES.

Well, no I didn't. If you don't understand what point I'm making and just want to spew venom, be my guest. You did it to John, me and rikriley, who wasn't even talking to you.

Originally posted by kleverone
Sorry buddy but how do you expect me to have serious conversation with you, with logic such as that?

Well, I feel the same, you're putting your own spin on something quite basic and simple and giving a shovel full of attitude with it and toward others, so let's agree to disagree, you seem to misundertand the premise of what I'm saying, I can't make it clearer for you and I refuse to try and be somewhat civil to someone with such a chip. You're useless Unicorn analogies are not comparable but similarly, just because you've never seen one doesn't mean they don't exist. I didn't realise you'd studied all life on all worlds.

Originally posted by kleverone
Why would we bother with the second part of a 2 part question if the first part was crap?

Because I wouldn't categorically stake anything of value that the first part was crap. If you would, I understand, it simply means we don't agree, that's all, and that's permitted you know.

Originally posted by kleverone
You have to clean the crap of your shoes before you going worring aobut the carpet my friend!

A prime example of your filth.

Have a nice day

You too.

I think John Lear tends to believe in almost everything he is told and reads/hears as well as exaggerates some of his experiences.

Two great examples of this is his belief the US government buried nukes all around Iran and the world will blame Israel for nuking Iran because Israel will bomb Iran (which was a no evidence theory previously stated) or his endorsement of sleeper's alien stories (again without any evidence).

Originally posted by RetinoidReceptor
I think John Lear tends to believe in almost everything he is told and reads/hears as well as exaggerates some of his experiences.

Two great examples of this is his belief the US government buried nukes all around Iran and the world will blame Israel for nuking Iran because Israel will bomb Iran (which was a no evidence theory previously stated) or his endorsement of sleeper's alien stories (again without any evidence).

Wow! " John Lear tends to believe in almost everything he is told" ? I didn't know John Lear was so well rounded in his beliefs and you could only choose these two examples, out of his vast array of believing almost everything?

Have you ever read his signature?

John Lear

The above is my opinion and is intended to promote discussion. It is not represented as fact unless so stated.

So basically unless he states the information he is posting is fact, it is only his opinion and everyone hear on ATS is entitled to theirs.

Originally posted by Realtruth

So basically unless he states the information he is posting is fact, it is only his opinion and everyone hear on ATS is entitled to theirs.

So what is your point? I never said he said that what he believed in was fact, I was just saying I think he exaggerates his experiences and tends to believe in everything.

So get off your soap box please, and go sit in the back where you belong.

Thanks!

[edit on 29-4-2007 by RetinoidReceptor]

My father flew combat missions in Korea, did two tours in Viet Nam, one flying unarmed TEWS flights; earning a Distinguished Service Flying Cross while doing so. If he began spouting the blarney Mr. Lear does, we would probably have had him committed, regardless of his past achievements.

You can place all the disclaimers you want to in your signature about "your opinion" and "not fact"......but when you over and over and over state positions as fact, you're abusing the disclaimer system.

He's here to pull in the traffic.

Originally posted by Realtruth
So basically unless he states the information he is posting is fact, it is only his opinion and everyone hear on ATS is entitled to theirs.

Well, Mr. Lear has explicitly stated as fact some information, which is demonstrably absolute nonsense (specifically, that the moon has a significant (and even breathable) atmosphere).

Regards
yf

Originally posted by RetinoidReceptor

So get off your soap box please, and go sit in the back where you belong.

Thanks!

Now! Now! there's no need to get all testy and personal telling me where I should go, that is childish.

I was merely stating what his signature said. You don't have to believe everything people say, the internet allows you to do that.

Are you upset because someone with credentials as Mr. Lear does happens to have some unorthodox theories?

At one time I remember there were a group of wise men claiming the earth was flat for many many centuries, until enough people actually had the opportunity to prove those all knowing wise men wrong.

I am not saying John Lear knows all, nor am I implying he theories are valid, but unless someone can prove or disprove someone else claims/theories beyond a reasonable doubt, those people should have enough respect and open minds to allow that person their due. Also you don't have to sit silent and not challenge the theories, but this thread appears to be turning into a witch hunt.

MrPenny

My father flew combat missions in Korea, did two tours in Viet Nam, one flying unarmed TEWS flights; earning a Distinguished Service Flying Cross while doing so. If he began spouting the blarney Mr. Lear does, we would probably have had him committed, regardless of his past achievements.

Wonderful! Your father is a hero, but your comment that Mr. Lear should be "committed" is without merit and uncalled for. ATS is a conspiracy site and contains information from many areas people are here to challenge information and claims, but getting personal is not part of ATS protocol.

Originally posted by RetinoidReceptor

So get off your soap box please, and go sit in the back where you belong.

Thanks!

[edit on 29-4-2007 by RetinoidReceptor]

[edit on 29-4-2007 by Realtruth]

Originally posted by Prote

Well, I feel the same, you're putting your own spin on something quite basic and simple and giving a shovel full of attitude with it and toward others, so let's agree to disagree

Actually I misread you original post, TWICE. You are absolutely correct. I was wrong and was trying to say exactly what you said in your original post. My apologies.

Nah.... not worth it...

[edit on 29-4-2007 by zorgon]

Originally posted by Realtruth

Now! Now! there's no need to get all testy and personal telling me where I should go, that is childish.

I wasn't being childish, I was just saying you shouldn't be saying anything. Some people just don't make sense when they communicate is all.

I was merely stating what his signature said. You don't have to believe everything people say, the internet allows you to do that.

Was that ALL you were saying? Or were you contradicting my opinion by using his irrelevant signature in this discussion?

Are you upset because someone with credentials as Mr. Lear does happens to have some unorthodox theories?

Ummmmm Yes that must be it. I pull my hair out because a pilot believes what any quawk on the street or people on ATS says. Again, why are you saying things that don't make sense? It is irritating to read

At one time I remember there were a group of wise men claiming the earth was flat for many many centuries, until enough people actually had the opportunity to prove those all knowing wise men wrong.

You remember that? Wow you must be old!

Did any of them say there was a tower collecting souls on the moon too!?

Also you don't have to sit silent and not challenge the theories, but this thread appears to be turning into a witch hunt.

Someone asked, is John Lear spreading disinfo. You're going to get answers. If you don't like the posts following the OP, then don't read the thread.

The sweet fact here is that John Lear knows why he believes in what was shared in this forum. It's up to you to believe, and John Lear could probably care less if you do or not.

I find him thought provoking and alive.

Thank You John.


P.S.

I pulled out my old history books from high school and found many lunar pictures with mysterious blurring in certain places....curiosity is my driver.

Originally posted by Fett Pinkus
remember the thread about a holographic projector and 9/11


where john lear claimed that this machine was used to simulate the 2 planes crashing into the buildings ?

that really ruined any sort of credibility he had if you ask me

do you like being laughed at when you tell people the things you believe fett pinkus? why do you have such a high level of immaturity? could you just not post instead of ridiculing john? seems like it'd be much more convinient for yourself and the rest of us, thanks.

Originally posted by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal


Please for give me. It seemed so obvious that him and sleeper are a money schamming tag team with the unarguable invisible facts to back up all their claims... well, that and some special ATS staff treatment

[edit on 28-4-2007 by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal]

a money scamming tag team eh? please show me where lear has profited from being on this site and taking the time to answer OUR questions? i know sleeper has a book but correct me if im wrong, sleeper never disclosed the his name or his book until someone else did, yes, no? what makes you think the two even KNOW each other? they have similar theories.. thats it. and is 2 people on one board sharing similar therioes just a coincidence? who knows but i doubt it

Originally posted by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal
Anyway, there isn't any thing that we can do about it except for stay away from it. Those who wish to follow, will follow. It's their life and their money to spend, if they don't have a brain enough to think for them selves then fault be their own and those who exploit them, the rest are innocent.

[edit on 28-4-2007 by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal]

i've wished to follow his post and i havent spent a CENT! how am i being exploited? cuz im trying to get as much information i can and develop my own therioes and conclusions? i have a brain and i think for myself, how would reading lears posts make me and less or more ignorant then people like yourself?

Originally posted by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal
Find some thing true to follow.
[edit on 28-4-2007 by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal]

believe me, when i find the truth i will follow it... can you show me the truth? no you can't, thats why im here at ATS, reading posts, including john lears

guys, lear isn't being PAYED to sit here and type his thoughts.. if you dont like what he thinks why ridicule? why not save your time and everyone elses that has to read it? lear isn't necassarily treated special here, he HAS been banned before too. i dont believe agree with everything he says but i dont ridicule him, just take it with a grain of salt or simply dont read it

Originally posted by kleverone
You'll excuse me if a happen to challenge someones outlandish ideas, especially when posts them here on ATS as a platform to sell his ideas for money at UFO lectures. That I have to question.

You know I really have to laugh at all these rediculous claims about the money issue... WHAT MONEY? Does any ONE of you have any idea how much money you get as a guest speaker at a UFO convention? Note even enough to cover the expenses to get there.... and does even one of you know how many a year John goes to? Huh?

Yep smart call guys a real get rich scheme

I have heard the book mentioned... The book idea was MY idea, not John's as a way to put the theories into print. Currently ALL the info that has been researched is FREELY available on various websites and collected on MY website, which is paid for at my personal expense and we take no memberships, donations nor even AD MONEY like they do here at ATS!!

If your going to nag about money... find out how good for business John and others are for ATS.

The book deal may or may not happen I am good at web sites not so good as a writer. Just recently an issue caused my website to be down for a few weeks... If you stop paying for a site all the FREE INFO is lost forever... puting it into a book is a way to make it last...

You think you can get rich from a book? Any idea how much you make? IF you get it written and IF you get it published you don't even see a dime until a certain number of copies are sold ie after the publisher has made his money back

But I don't get it... why the attack on John even if he wanted to do a book? EVERY OTHER PERSON out there in this line is writing books... The crackpots, the real researchers, the ex military guys and so on... I do not see what the fuss is about wanting to put your thoughts into print before you leave this world... Believe me the internet stuff is gone 30 days after you don't pay the bill.

Originally posted by kleverone


Would you like me to prove that unicorns DON'T exist as well?

YES actually I would. It seems an outrageous claim to me I know thousands of people who firmly believe unicorns exist or at least did once exist... and these are just the people I have met in my Medieval pursuits. I am willing to bet ever Pagan on this planet will agree with me so if you are going to make an outrageous claim like "Unicorns do not exist.." dagnabbit you better have really good proof!

It works both ways... Deny Ignorance also means to deny the ignorance of people stuck with the spoon fed perceived reality.


[edit on 29-4-2007 by zorgon]

lear is NOT a disinfo agent, rather someone who sticks strongly to what he believes in

people say he can't prove anything he claims well i know a lot of crazy claims that millions of people follow blindly that havn't been proven but i'm not going to get into that

[edit on 29-4-2007 by biotic]