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What was the deepest motivation of Nazism?

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posted on Apr, 27 2007 @ 02:37 AM
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I would argue the deepest motivation of Nazism was land. Lebensraum. Germany was the most crowded state in Europe with more people on less land than any other agrarian power and was the only powerful nation in Europe at the time that still had more than 20% of the work force in agriculture.

Nazism was motivated by the need to expand to feed Germans.




posted on Apr, 27 2007 @ 03:14 AM
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Originally posted by DerVaterlandsFreund
I would argue the deepest motivation of Nazism was land. Lebensraum. Germany was the most crowded state in Europe with more people on less land than any other agrarian power and was the only powerful nation in Europe at the time that still had more than 20% of the work force in agriculture.

Nazism was motivated by the need to expand to feed Germans.


Maybe, but I think that Lebensraum was just an excuse to get the support of the people and the jews were pointed out as the scapegoat, much like the Bush government is geting their support for the War of Terror (as I like to call it) by claiming that the muslims are the cause of every problem in the US and only by defeating them can the US be "free" and "safe". But let's not turn this into another US-bashing, I believe the question was about germany.

The expressed intent of the nazis were not simply to feed their people and expand their land, but in fact to purify the human race back to what they saw as a superior master-race from which they were the decendants (the Aries). In this scenario every human of "inferior racial quality" would have to be eliminated so that only Arian genes would survive. This of course had it's roots in the pseudo-science of categorizing and ranking humans by how they look and where they were from, how "pure" their blood was.

In short, I don't think they just want land or food, but the total reformation of the world into the third reich, which would last for a thousand years and bring about a new era of human prosperity through unity and obedience, sort of like George Orwell's 1984. Of course it failed, much like the US attempt at controlling the world today will fail. People will not yield to foreign oppression no matter the cost of lives.



posted on Apr, 27 2007 @ 04:31 AM
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The want and need for strong leadership
The reversal of the Versailles treaty
The restoration of Germany
A strong, united and well armed Germany
Never again WWI
From poverty to prosperity

More?

Please note World Domination is not mentioned...



posted on Apr, 27 2007 @ 05:16 AM
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DrLeary has the bullseye in the sights.

check out the Geman composer Richard Wagner for starters...

en.wikipedia.org...


under the heading; Racism and Nazi appropriation
->(heroic mythology of the German nation)



posted on Apr, 27 2007 @ 04:27 PM
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All of these ignores that one truth in the universe that wars happen generally when people are over populated. The Arab conquests in the 600s AD were fueled by the same thing. As were the Germanic Tribes invading Rome. As were the various wars of expansion in Japan and China and Korea. Africa. Everywhere wars are fought for expansion when people are over crowded. Is it no wonder currently the middle east is very over crowded and they are the problem spot in the world?

People may have alterior motives hidden beneath but I think the DEEPEST motivation of the Nazis were simply to get more land. The actions of Hitler dictate this...everything was predicated on taking Eastern Europe. War with the West was to be avoided at all costs and was until 1938 when the Nazi leadership realized it was an inevitability.

It is doubtful (due to lack of doccumentation) that Nazism cared about replacing the whole human race with Germans.

Hell, Hitler did not invade England because he wanted England to be a home for the Anglican race.



posted on Apr, 27 2007 @ 04:56 PM
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Besides the fact of 'aquiring land'...don't forget the events that 'led up to' Adolph Hitlers rise:

Economical problems



Adolf Hitler, a wounded veteran of the World War 1, blamed the economic problems on the allies who had forced the peace terms on Germany. Hitler joined an obscure right wing political group - the Nazi party - and, with little competition, rose rapidly in it. He was able to attract some extremely dedicated and capable followers, e.g., Goering, Hess, Goebbels, Himmler, Bormann, Speer, and Ernst Roehm.


Scroll down to 'World war 2'

He wanted to bring his country out of Economic depression.

I, myself, DO NOT support Nazzism or anything of the like. I only wanted to show you other avenues.

I give credit, where credit is due, only unto the fact that this man took his country out of an 'Economical slump'.

However, (let it be known), I DO NOT EVER in this lifetime or any lifetime credit his performances there-after. examples
Holocaust/genocide/etc).





[edit on 27-4-2007 by TheDuckster]

[edit on 27-4-2007 by TheDuckster]



posted on Apr, 27 2007 @ 05:26 PM
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The problem with that idea is that Germany came out of their economic crises in the 1920s and only briefly returned to them in the early 1930s before Hitler came to power. By the time Hitler came to power the economic problems were largely over.



posted on Apr, 27 2007 @ 05:37 PM
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Originally posted by DerVaterlandsFreund
The problem with that idea is that Germany came out of their economic crises in the 1920s and only briefly returned to them in the early 1930s before Hitler came to power. By the time Hitler came to power the economic problems were largely over.


I don't agree.

This was an on-going economical crisis, that didn't stop. To say that there was economical reprieve between the 1920's to 1930's is un-realistic.

Hitler had to take control of the banks. He needed to take control of the economy.

There-in lies ONE of the reasons for the rise of Nazism. CONTROL.

[edit on 27-4-2007 by TheDuckster]



posted on Apr, 27 2007 @ 08:01 PM
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You missed the single biggest motivation.

COMMUNISM

Communism had been absorbing nations across eastern Europe and Germany clearly saw themselves threatened.

What makes anyone here believe that Germany would not have been conquered without Operation Barbarossa?

The Soviets were days away from launching an attack before Hitler launched his pre-emptive strike.

He TRIED to get the other European leaders, and America to join with him but met with denial and resistance.

Imagine the world today if it were not for Hitler. The Soviets would have easily conquered all of Europe leaving all of the European colonies in their hands.

It would have only been a matter of time before the entire world fell.....



posted on Apr, 27 2007 @ 08:46 PM
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The Soviet Union was in no shape to invade anyone just prior to the invasion by Germany and its army. Stalin was busy purging his officer corps, or had just finished doing so. Not that he might not have in the future, I grant you that. But at that particular moment? He was in no shape to do so.

Don't forget the underlying current of National Socialism: The latent superiority of the Aryan man over everyone else. Don't ever forget what they did to try and aquire the "lebensraum" (sp), either.

[edit on 27-4-2007 by seagull]



posted on Apr, 27 2007 @ 08:56 PM
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Originally posted by seagull
The Soviet Union was in no shape to invade anyone just prior to the invasion by Germany and its army. Stalin was busy purging his officer corps, or had just finished doing so. Not that he might not have in the future, I grant you that. But at that particular moment? He was in no shape to do so.

Don't forget the underlying current of National Socialism: The latent superiority of the Aryan man over everyone else. Don't ever forget what they did to try and aquire the "lebensraum" (sp), either.

[edit on 27-4-2007 by seagull]


The Soviets were massed for attack. Thats why operation Barbarossa was so successful.

You should read up on this period of history.

The Soviets were preparing to take over the world.

www.odci.gov...



posted on Apr, 27 2007 @ 09:00 PM
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Originally posted by Malichai
You missed the single biggest motivation.

COMMUNISM

Communism had been absorbing nations across eastern Europe and Germany clearly saw themselves threatened.

What makes anyone here believe that Germany would not have been conquered without Operation Barbarossa?

The Soviets were days away from launching an attack before Hitler launched his pre-emptive strike.

He TRIED to get the other European leaders, and America to join with him but met with denial and resistance.

Imagine the world today if it were not for Hitler. The Soviets would have easily conquered all of Europe leaving all of the European colonies in their hands.

It would have only been a matter of time before the entire world fell.....


I agree.

That, with what I mentioned before: CONTROL

Combine those two elements?

That more than sets the stage for NAZIISM.



posted on Apr, 27 2007 @ 09:24 PM
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Originally posted by TheDuckster

Originally posted by DerVaterlandsFreund
The problem with that idea is that Germany came out of their economic crises in the 1920s and only briefly returned to them in the early 1930s before Hitler came to power. By the time Hitler came to power the economic problems were largely over.


I don't agree.

This was an on-going economical crisis, that didn't stop. To say that there was economical reprieve between the 1920's to 1930's is un-realistic.

Hitler had to take control of the banks. He needed to take control of the economy.

There-in lies ONE of the reasons for the rise of Nazism. CONTROL.

[edit on 27-4-2007 by TheDuckster]


You dont have to agree but you are wrong. Germany delt with its economic problems before Hitler. When Hitler took power the major industrialists met to solve how to deal with the changing political situation. Many sided with Hitler and the Nazi party had took control of the industry and only grew industrial capacity about 100 to 150% since 1933. Germany had already under gone MOST of its economic recovery by 1933.



posted on Apr, 27 2007 @ 09:26 PM
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Originally posted by seagull
The Soviet Union was in no shape to invade anyone just prior to the invasion by Germany and its army. Stalin was busy purging his officer corps, or had just finished doing so. Not that he might not have in the future, I grant you that. But at that particular moment? He was in no shape to do so.

Don't forget the underlying current of National Socialism: The latent superiority of the Aryan man over everyone else. Don't ever forget what they did to try and aquire the "lebensraum" (sp), either.

[edit on 27-4-2007 by seagull]


Don't give me this moralistic crap it makes me sick. Nazism was unsustainable and to use Germany had to use an entirely different ideal to motivate Germany. The expansion to the east was the motivation not the supremacy of Germans. Most Germans were old enough to remember when they fought in the trenches with Czechs, Slovaks, Poles, Rumanians, Hungarians, and every other "untermensch" imaginable to Hitler. None of them were interested in spreading the German Race to the far corners of the world.



posted on Apr, 27 2007 @ 09:33 PM
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Originally posted by DerVaterlandsFreund

Originally posted by TheDuckster

Originally posted by DerVaterlandsFreund
The problem with that idea is that Germany came out of their economic crises in the 1920s and only briefly returned to them in the early 1930s before Hitler came to power. By the time Hitler came to power the economic problems were largely over.


I don't agree.

This was an on-going economical crisis, that didn't stop. To say that there was economical reprieve between the 1920's to 1930's is un-realistic.

Hitler had to take control of the banks. He needed to take control of the economy.

There-in lies ONE of the reasons for the rise of Nazism. CONTROL.

[edit on 27-4-2007 by TheDuckster]


You dont have to agree but you are wrong. Germany delt with its economic problems before Hitler. When Hitler took power the major industrialists met to solve how to deal with the changing political situation. Many sided with Hitler and the Nazi party had took control of the industry and only grew industrial capacity about 100 to 150% since 1933. Germany had already under gone MOST of its economic recovery by 1933.


I'm not trying to fight you my friend, just trying to find out exact dates et al.

If Germany had already dealt with economic problems before Hitler, then what was the purpose for having Hitler as a ruler?

Do you have any links to support this?

~Respectfully, TheDuckster~



posted on Apr, 27 2007 @ 10:24 PM
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I think the Nazis were trying to make Germany the most powerful nation on Earth, and they didn't care who they had to hurt or what they had to do to achieve that. I think they picked Jews as a scapegoat because they were a group that, due to antisemitism, had the least chance of non-Jews protesting their treatment.

I disagree with the idea that the Germans were expanding in order to feed their own people. They did have some economic problems due to post-WWI conditions, such as reparation payments, out of control inflation, deaths in battle, and the like. I don't pretend to understand economics well enough to say whether or not the economy was doing alright before Hitler came along or not, but my limited understanding of the subject previous to reading this thread had been that Hitler did stabilize the economy with his policies of control.



posted on Apr, 27 2007 @ 10:46 PM
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Originally posted by TheDuckster

Originally posted by DerVaterlandsFreund

Originally posted by TheDuckster

Originally posted by DerVaterlandsFreund
The problem with that idea is that Germany came out of their economic crises in the 1920s and only briefly returned to them in the early 1930s before Hitler came to power. By the time Hitler came to power the economic problems were largely over.


I don't agree.

This was an on-going economical crisis, that didn't stop. To say that there was economical reprieve between the 1920's to 1930's is un-realistic.

Hitler had to take control of the banks. He needed to take control of the economy.

There-in lies ONE of the reasons for the rise of Nazism. CONTROL.

[edit on 27-4-2007 by TheDuckster]


You dont have to agree but you are wrong. Germany delt with its economic problems before Hitler. When Hitler took power the major industrialists met to solve how to deal with the changing political situation. Many sided with Hitler and the Nazi party had took control of the industry and only grew industrial capacity about 100 to 150% since 1933. Germany had already under gone MOST of its economic recovery by 1933.


I'm not trying to fight you my friend, just trying to find out exact dates et al.

If Germany had already dealt with economic problems before Hitler, then what was the purpose for having Hitler as a ruler?

Do you have any links to support this?

~Respectfully, TheDuckster~


The book The Wages of Destruction details the complete economic situation at the time of Hitler's rise to power. I'm not saying that Hitler did not improve the German work force but the economy was largely back to normal. The perceived strength of the economy at the time was seen as weak perhaps but not really...Hitler rode a platform of the german workers not the economy. Full employment etc. The result of the Nazi leadership was the complete destruction of the German economy by 1938. By 1938 Germany's economy was on the verge of disaster and doing everything possible to prevent an implosion.

But the figures for 100-150% growth in the 7 years came from that book. Considering how much there was to do ... that's only a little of the work that was done to rebuild the economy.

But to Dragons and others.

Jews were not a scapegoat. Hitler legitimately believed as did others that Jews had power in other nations and were directing their policies in ways that would hurt Germany. Scapegoats are just people you blame when you know they are not to blame. Hitler firmly believed there was a Jewish conspiracy to destroy Germany.



posted on Apr, 27 2007 @ 10:51 PM
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Originally posted by DerVaterlandsFreund
.....

Jews were not a scapegoat. Hitler legitimately believed as did others that Jews had power in other nations and were directing their policies in ways that would hurt Germany. Scapegoats are just people you blame when you know they are not to blame. Hitler firmly believed there was a Jewish conspiracy to destroy Germany.


It really started when Jews declared war on Germany.

Go ahead, call me an Anti-Semite for speaking the TRUTH.



posted on Apr, 27 2007 @ 11:19 PM
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Although the Germans were perfectly justified in fighting Communism, not so much so for all the tactics they used to do so, I feel that the ultimate motivation was, as is the ultimate motivation for any war of choice was and is world domination. Greece, Rome, Britain, Germany, and America have all launched such conflicts.



posted on Apr, 28 2007 @ 10:07 AM
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DerVaterlandsFreund. Where did I say Germans, there were many who didn't buy into what the National Socialists were selling, but quite obviously enough did, since they were elected into power.

Nazism was unsustainable, on that we agree. Although it took millions of deaths to realize that.

Moralistic crap? Without moral judgement how do we tell right from wrong?

[edit on 28-4-2007 by seagull]





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