Question about cars, I want an answer. No more messing around., page 2
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reply posted on 27-4-2007 @ 06:12 AM by Karilla
My answer: Pyroclastic flow. You've all seen the collapse footage with the thick plumes of downward-heading 'smoke'.

"Pyroclastic flows can only occur when a dense slurry of fine dust is suspended in air or volcanic gasses and is concentrated in a defined area. The suspension will then act as a separate, denser fluid that remains distinct as it moves through the less dense medium. Because of their density such flows can reach speeds of hundreds of miles an hour and do tremendous damage, especially with the high temperatures seen in volcanic events."

from:
www.plaguepuppy.net...

So, bearing in mind the fact that immediately following the collapse Ground Zero and the surrounding area was enveloped in a cloud of fine pulverised concrete dust (this is all the debris around the burned out cars seems to consist of), which should have deprived the initial jet fuel fires of oxygen, there were enough SUPER-heated gasses still present to incinerate these vehicles.

The lack of heat damage to the surrounding buildings in the shot with the burned out bus can easily be explained by the channeling effect of these buildings. Pyroclastic flows behave more as a liquid than a gas, and any liquid flowing through a defined channel loses velocity toward the edges of the channel, to the point where the liquid at the very edge is hardly moving at all. In the case of the pyroclastic flow the air would have been far hotter in the middle of that street than at the edge, and there may have been relatively little heat transferred. The cars would have been completely surrounded by the hot gas.

All this, even if accurate (I'm no vulcanologist), still begs the question: how was there enough chemical energy in in two planeloads of jet fuel to bring down two massive skyscrapers and turn the resultant debris into a super-heated slurry?

I don't feel that an EMP could have started the fires.

"...the region where the greatest damage can be produced is from about 3 to 8 km from ground zero. In this same region structures housing electrical equipment are also likely to be severely damaged by blast and shock. According to the third edition of The Effects of Nuclear Weapons, by S. Glasstone and P. Dolan, “the threat to electrical and electronic systems from a surface-burst EMP may extend as far as the distance at which the peak overpressure from a 1-megaton burst is 2 pounds per square inch.”
from: www.fas.org...

The reason that a lot of the photos are so remeniscent of a nuclear ground zero, is that is generally the only man-made phenomenon that produces a super-heated-shock wave.

Fortunately, building of this size don't fall down very often, so it is impossible to compare the situation like-for-like with another collapse or demolition. Without that the official line is just as valid, but certainly not more-so, as the alternative theories.

Personally I feel that we are looking at some kind of bomb, and not simply jet-fuel fires. Does anybody remember the bomb they talked about mid-nineties that destroyed buildings without affecting organic matter? It made the news and was never mentioned much after that.


reply posted on 27-4-2007 @ 07:26 AM by apex
Originally posted by Karilla
My answer: Pyroclastic flow. You've all seen the collapse footage with the thick plumes of downward-heading 'smoke'.


I would have bought this up as well, the flow of debris from the WTC does look a lot like it, and I have actually heard it described as such at a lecture open to the public as well. It does match the expected damage from this sort of thing, the destroyed structure is in the middle of the flow, from ANOK's post:



The destroyed vehicles are in the middle of the flow, while the buildings windows are perfectly intact, even at ground level. The heavier elements of the flow will have gone down the middle, along with it possibly the objects causing the fire in those vehicles. It is a type of
Gravity current, which is driven by a difference in density. Such a flow can go a long way, for example those from Krakatoa went 40 km across sea. Naturally those from the WTC would not be quite so energetic, but the distance involved is definitely possible.


Rather than a pyroclastic flow, it could of been a Pyroclastic surge sort of system, as these consist more of gases and light particles than heavy objects. In nature they can flow over hills, rather than always downhill, and so could likely spread down side streets to cause this sort of damage.


This may be interesting to read:
plus.maths.org...


[edit on 27-4-2007 by apex]



reply posted on 27-4-2007 @ 08:45 AM by tyranny22
Originally posted by forsakenwayfarer
i bet $100 us dollars that the only cars that caught on fire were those with their windows down and/or running causing the air filter to catch fire from flaming debris etc. but i really think quite a few will be those with their windows down.


It would be very difficult for an air filter to catch fire. They're contained in a very air tight surrounding and if they're running the air flowing through the filter wouldn't allow an open flame to ignite for simple air pressure. Also, air filters are designed to function in a hot environment (an engine). I doubt it was the air filter. Maybe in 1 or 2 incidents, but not a mass air filter failure that lead to fire.

It would seem to me that most of the fires that were burning from jet fuel (given that A LOT of the jet fuel would have been burned off in the initial crash) would have been put out by the dust and debris after the towers fell. Whether it was jet fuel that was still burning or various office furniture/building materials.

Get a good campfire going, let it burn for an hour or so and stoke it to make sure it's hot. Now take a pound of flour, baking soda, concrete or sand and dump it directly on the hot embers. Most of the fire would be put out. And I believe if you were to do a ratio of the tower's debris that could have put out the fire and the baking soda/concrete/whatever that would put out the camp fire - you'd probably be dumping 5 pounds or more onto the camp fire.



reply posted on 27-4-2007 @ 09:11 AM by Leyla
You guys gotta see this

This is 911 Plane site DC

911 IN PLANE SITE:

*Why were America and the world never shown the video and photographs of the Pentagon, BEFORE the outer wall had collapsed showing only one 16 ft. hole. Many people do not realize that the outer wall did not collapse until almost 30 minutes after the initial impact. See these astonishing photographs and video footage for the first time.

*Given that the outer wall of the Pentagon had not yet collapsed and the only hole is approximately 16 ft. in diameter - how does a jetliner over 44 feet tall and 125 ft. wide fit into that hole as shown in the crystal-clear and close-up photographic evidence from the Pentagon? Furthermore, can physics explain why there is no damage to the Pentagon's upper floors where the tail section would have hit?

*“I heard a very loud, quick whooshing sound. I was convinced it was a missile. It came in so fast – it sounded nothing like an airplane.” Lon Rains - editor for Space News (Pentagon eyewitness)

*In the aftermath, it was reported by media sources that a giant 100 ft. crater was plowed into the front lawn of the Pentagon as the result of a powerful airliner crash? Why does photographic evidence overwhelmingly show that this was absolutely not the case? Why no crater? Why no skid marks? Why no burn marks? Why was the entire world deliberately mislead? Examine the video and photographic evidence for yourself.

*How does a Boeing 757, constructed from lightweight aluminum, penetrate over 9 ft. of steel reinforced concrete? Photographs and recently discovered computer animations help shed light on this unexplained feat of physics.

*At the World Trade Center, why did firefighters, reporters and other on the scene eyewitnesses describe a demolition-like, pancake collapse of buildings One, Two & Seven? Hear the outrageous admissions made by the building lease owner recorded on video, plus shocking new video evidence helps to answer some of these important questions.

*What is the bright flash on the right side of the Boeing 767, seen just before impact on both the North Tower & the South Tower, captured on video by 5 separate cameramen including CNN and ABC? Slow motion analysis reveals startling verification of this extraordinary event and begs the question, "What is it?"

Find out what former military personnel think this could be.

*Why were there numerous reports of bombs & explosions going off in and around the WTC before any buildings had collapsed? Hear & see the testimony of the reporters, rescue teams and eyewitnesses who tell a different story of potential demolition charges, unexplained explosions, and vehicles loaded with explosives as reported on live television the morning of Sept. 11, 2001.

*Why did a FOX News employee, who witnessed the second tower attack, report seeing no windows on “Flight 175” a commercial United Airlines jetliner? Why did another eyewitness report that United Airlines Flight 175 was not a commercial airliner? What kind of plane hit the second tower?

*Is there some type of exterior swelling protruding from the undercarriage of “Flight 175” ? An independently conducted computerized digital analysis says yes. Where was this "instrument" attached? How could it have departed from a commercial airport without being noticed? What purpose did it serve in the attacks? Full-screen television blow-ups directly from CNN and other mainstream sources reveal the intricate details of this strange anomaly.

-------------------
LOL Now I'm gonna sit back and polish my nails. I told you it was a bomb.


And heres the link for that Flight 93 story.

www.911inplanesite.com...

Archives
web.archive.org...://wcpo.com/specials/2001/americaattacked/news_local/story14.html

[edit on 4/27/2007 by Leyla]
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