Someone Else's Fault

We see this all the time in our society. It always, or seems that way sometimes, someone elses fault. I'm unemployed, it's the NWO's fault, whoever they are, or the man, or NAFTA, or any other bugaboo you care to name.

I see it all the time, and my humble opinion is this; until we start holding everyone responsible for their actions; you, me, Semper (gotcha ), Trutseeka (you too ) and every mother loving somebody else, our society as we know it is doomed to an ever worsening cycle of blame and counter-blame, ending god only knows where.

Oh...was this on topic? Silly me...

Originally posted by jsobecky

And as moderators you have the power and the responsibility to stop these baiting tactics whenever they occur. But that never happens. That is why posts with potential turn into insults and personal attacks.

That's what they are: baiting tactics. They should not be allowed or encouraged. It seems like they should be against the T&C. I don't know if they are, but I do know that a formal complaint about baiting tactics will earn you the admonishment to "suck it up" and to "post in another thread if he bothers you". Iow, too bad for you. Just accept it and move on.

It makes it difficult to follow the rules when the standard is unclear.

I don't agree with this claim, it is also the main responsibility of the person posting to take a step back, listen to others, and catch themselves after they have crossed the line, if they are able to do this then they have moderated themselves and learned, but if they continue then they get warned, or maybe even the BAN HAMMER! IF ATS were to over moderate they would lose many many members.

This is a classic example of having someone else do for others and others that are capable not taking personal responsibility for their words, comments, and actions.

IMO.



[edit on 29-4-2007 by Realtruth]

I know I'm jumping in late, but if anyone has ever noticed, I am a very very very huge fan of personal accountability, and am myself sick of this kind of crap. There are times when I wish I could go uncensored on here, as a good volley of swears makes me feel better from time to time when talking about certain things, and this is one of them. If you cant take the consequences for your own actions, then think about your actions before you commit them. They can't be undone once you have.

Wow, take a break and work double shifts and see what happens. There are so many great point to be made on this thread and things to be learned so we really have to stoop to insulting others? Reading these posts has been is some cases enlightening and in other cases not so much.

I think we can all agree that accepting the consequences for our actions or inactions is important. I'm however, curious, what is the best way for us to teach this to others? I'm all for parents setting the example and for allowing our kids to accept the consequences of their actions rather then protecting them. For example, if a kid fails to turn in a paper on time don't call the school and demand extra time for them; if they screw up they need to face the consequences. Two of the best parents I know turned their own son in for B&E and watched him go to juvie; they visited him and loved him but he had to pay the price. He said the worst part of it was watching his mother cry because of what he had done. Needless to say he didn't repeat his actions. What do you all think?

gh, I do think it starts with parenting. I have seen so many parents these days try to "protect" their kids from the pain that is a part of life and learning. Making mistakes and having to pay the consequences is one of life's greatest lessons! But parents say, "I don't want them to go through what I did. I don't want them to have to learn the hard way." As if "learning the hard way" is detrimental to one's self-growth, when actually, it is the very best and sure way to learn.

Another step I personally think needs to happen is that countries and leaders need to model accountability. When we were attacked on 9/11, our leadership REFUSED (and still does) to consider our behavior in the world over the past 50 years as possibly contributing to attitudes of other peoples and countries toward us. I'm not saying it's our "fault" that people drove planes into our buildings, but I think we need to stop thinking that we were just sitting here innocently minding our own business, being all friendly and nice to everyone when, out of the blue, *CRASH*.

If a person does buy the official story of 9/11, it didn't happen out of a vacuum. There were many causal factors and our treatment and behavior to other people of the world was (and is) a big contributor to how we are treated in the world society.

But ultimately, I believe it starts with personal, individual accountability. The more we model this behavior and talk about it, the more the 'blamers' are set into the spotlight. The more power that is felt and exhibited by people who are accountable, the more others will see that and want to do it, too.

It's hard to be the true victim of something and STILL choose accountability, but the power in that stance is overwhelming and heady! Once people see that this is a CHOICE, whether they're a true victim or not, the more people will choose it.

So, you (generic you) are racially profiled by the cops, so you get paid less than a man makes for the same job, so you work long and hard on a project only to have it be taken off the final product... That's when accountability and personal responsibility are the most powerful choices. That's when it's most important to hold onto the mindset that you attracted these circumstances in your life to teach you a valuable lesson. That's when it's important to ask yourself, "What am I learning here"?

Or you can sit back and bitch and complain about "the way things are" and how it's Someone Else's Fault...

Which will you choose?

Once burned, twice shy...experiance teaches like nothing else can. Teaching kids to except responsibility is hard, and some parents, I don't want to say most, though some days it seems that way; fail at it.

We see the results constantly, juvenile crime turning to adult crime, blaming everyone except the one most at fault, you/me, him/her. Oh there are some mitigating circumstances to be sure. But in the end, you/me, him/her are thinking beings with a conscience (supposedly), when we screw up, step up and be an adult-type person with scruples and dignity and take responsiblity for your actions or inactions, as the case may be.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Another step I personally think needs to happen is that countries and leaders need to model accountability.

BH,

Excellent point. The role models, in our world today, for the most part suck, but this goes right back to personal responsibility people and knowing the impact that there making on others.

I am not sure if it is selfish/greedy blindness that drive people to not see what they do or whether they are just oblivious to the world around them.

It seems to me that using the "someone elses's fault" excuse requires a minimum of two co-operating people - one to make the claim, and another to enable them to get away with it.

If there wasn't a person willing to believe the "someone else's fault" claim all the time, then people would stop using it. They only continue to use it because it works.

Originally posted by jsobecky
It seems to me that using the "someone elses's fault" excuse requires a minimum of two co-operating people - one to make the claim, and another to enable them to get away with it.

If there wasn't a person willing to believe the "someone else's fault" claim all the time, then people would stop using it. They only continue to use it because it works.

Good point. I think that people have to give their personal power/rights away first, then only to claim it is the other person's fault.

Semper I am pleased to hear you have the moral fibre to admit your mistakes. But although we talk of individual responcibility humans are not a group of individuals. We live in social groups that over time can grow strong bonds. A neighbourhood where the people almost live as a collective who can look out for each other usually act appropriately.

What we have now in many situations is a complete disintergration of that model, situations where people can live next to each other for years and do not know each other. This fractured society that we are now seeing in many Western countries was not brought about by the individual. This process has taken 20-30 years to come about, as PC and increased liberties have allowed the individual to move out of the previous tight knit social group.

Self expression now takes on many forms, and yes I agree with you it is easy for the cop out but again although you directly mentioned black people I could put it another way. Given the history of black Americans many have achieved so much, from academics to film stars all those have faced more than an uphill struggle to attain what we all desire and have been a good role model for so many young black people.

You have to put it into perspective, whilst your initial comments may be correct to a point eg spending the mortgage money on a car, the owner of the mortgage company robs millions from his clients. every social group has its villains and its hero's. The next time you see a young black child just remember he does not want to grow up a bum, drug runner or rapist, he wants to grow up being the next black icon, it is all our respocibilities to ensure that he treads the right path.

I was recently approached by an officer who works for a medical unit in my area.

We got to talking about what we'd both done over the years and funnily enough, how long it now takes our bodies to heal itself.

It transpires that we both did quite a bit of parachuting and in my case, I very badly twisted my right knee on my very first descent.

This guy then turns to me and says, 'Did you know, you can make a claim for that, fritz!'

I said something like, 'Yes, I know. But I did the jump course through choice. Nobody forced me to jump!'

He sais that as long as it was on my medical docs, the MOD would pay up without making a fuss.

Same thing with the little pink ear defenders they issued when we were on the ranges or firing the Charlie 'G'. friggin useless, they were. Again, MOD will just pay out.

I can understand people making a claim if there is a genuine case of malpractice or negligence but in my case, I knew the risks I was taking.

How was what happened to me, anybody else's fault?

Originally posted by jsobecky
If there wasn't a person willing to believe the "someone else's fault" claim all the time, then people would stop using it.

So what you're saying is....it is somebody else's fault. So if I tell you a lie and you believe it, it is your fault and not mine? Wouldn't the blame go to me, the person who did the action? Why does it always have to be someone else's fault?

Yes I believe as a society we 've become morally and ethically lazy in so many ways , and while it may produce a feeling of short term freedom and empowerment, ultiimately it doesn't lead anywhere good.

Personal responsibility, accountability and self awareness have to be triggered in a persons sense of self worth at some point by either their parents, peers or the society around them, otherwise they remain in this stagnant state of immature, arrested development, endlessly minimising their actions and the impact they have while increasing the level of blame exponentialy to others. Eventaully it ends up like some Dantes version of a childrens tea party, spoilt brats endlessly fighting and squabbling and refusing to clean up the mess they're all busily creating.