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Quantum Physics says Good-bye to "Reality"

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posted on May, 1 2007 @ 06:16 AM
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The 2012 prophecy is unfolding... technology will lead us to evolving our consciousness to the point where it surpasses technology. It is only a matter of time...

Thanks 4 the vids they were quite enlightening.

I have heard something like this before about nature only being there if there is an observer... went along the lines of "Consciousness is primary and the reality we perceive is secondary. Take away that consciousness and the reality isn't there."

Very thought provoking stuff!




posted on May, 1 2007 @ 06:35 PM
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The conclusion 'reality does not exist if we don't observe it' reminds me of polygon clipping in 3d computer games: non-visible polygons are clipped so as that performance is increased.

Could it be that the universe is a video game of some sort? and what we do not observe is not rendered by the universe's graphics engine in order to save resources?

And if it is so, what are the philosophical implications of it? the host universe (i.e. the universe that the machine that is executing this universe) is governed by the law of energy conservation, just like our universe.



posted on May, 2 2007 @ 11:11 AM
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The New horizon probe went past jupiter in february and took several images of jupiter and it's moon. Now i'm sure nothing was watching the probe when it took it's pictures. What's your conclusion?



posted on May, 2 2007 @ 12:04 PM
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Originally posted by DarkSide
The New horizon probe went past jupiter in february and took several images of jupiter and it's moon. Now i'm sure nothing was watching the probe when it took it's pictures. What's your conclusion?


I think your assuming that human beings are the only observers. To my knowledge the observer in these experiments has not been adequately defined.

I personally think the real observer is our spirit.

In the case of the probe you could argue that since the moon was already known and observed it existed. Additionally the probe was a means to extend the observation horizon of humans.



posted on May, 2 2007 @ 12:48 PM
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Observing (in this definition) actually means having your conscious or subconscious attention on something. That's what they're talking about.

The spaceprobe was planned, designed, assembled, launched, and is now being monitored. Plus your mere mention of the probe in your post is placing your attention (and that of the readers of your post) on it, eth.

Attention is the key here.



posted on May, 2 2007 @ 12:51 PM
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Observing (in this definition) actually means having your conscious or subconscious attention on something. That's what they're talking about.


Thanks Bandit......That was a much better explanation than I gave.



posted on May, 2 2007 @ 01:20 PM
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Also bear in mind that a photograph is just an arrangement of silver nitrate atoms (or whatever negatives are made of). It takes a human being to observe the arrangement of atoms and "see" a picture of Saturn.



posted on May, 2 2007 @ 01:49 PM
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if the universe started with a big bang then everything is connected due to quantum entanglement.
if it is a holographic universe that has fractual replicas of the Creator within a string theory 10 dimension multiverse...then the tree in the forest is entangled and will be truly falling and making a sound
the Creator sees all

welcome back to reality




[edit on 2-5-2007 by junglelord]



posted on May, 2 2007 @ 01:59 PM
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Originally posted by junglelord
welcome back to reality


oh the irony



posted on May, 2 2007 @ 03:21 PM
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Here is a nice thing to think of. There going to be running experiments at the new super collider which may create new universes. For a fraction of a second they will be observed before they go some place we can never observe them again.

However during that faraction of a second our time, billions of years may pass in that universe a life will come to exist. That life will then continue to observe that universe and thus allow that universe to exist as we no longer observe it.

So god creates us but then we continue to create our selves.



posted on May, 2 2007 @ 04:53 PM
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Hi Shinji, do you have a link to that experiment they are planning?

In response to the statement about the space probe, the pictures sent back are observed and measured , observation occurs at the moment the pictures are viewed, just as in the double slit experiment (as has been mentioned really).

The polygon clip explanation is better than what i was trying to say, more succinct - but with the polygon clip analogy and the analogy i was making, its not necessarily that things dont exist at all I think, but rather that they exist as a probablility, as undefined. Probablility is a funny concept, because it can both exist and not exist simultaneiously. The kicker for me is that I actually believe that everything is conscious, just not to the same degree. Im not so much into the god/creator as guaranteer of existence bit because i tend to think that the "creator" would coincide with the sum total of existence, All That Is. I suspect that quanta are actually nothing more than small packets of awareness, and that uncertainty is an expression of the fact that these small packets are actually choosing their paths. Our higher level perceptions of a coherent "reality" are superimposed onto conscious wave quanta, which then make small choices in response to observation, which, taken over a (very)large average sum, appears to us as what we like to call reality . Its not so much that things dont exist, but that they exist in relation to everything else that exists. Liebnitz (the co-creator of calculus along with Newton) believed in a similar theory of "windowless monads" or atoms that were conscious.



posted on May, 2 2007 @ 05:33 PM
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Originally posted by Shinji
So god creates us but then we continue to create our selves.


I could not agree more.


liquidself,

Shinji was talking about CERN. Here are a few links that I found.

cern

cern 2

cern 3



posted on May, 2 2007 @ 06:15 PM
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Thanks for the links;

found this link as well regarding the CERN project and creating new universes;

space.newscientist.com...

They sound very serious about this. Will that be milk or cream with your black hole? The implication here seems obvious; we can't be sure if this is at all possible that we are not a bubble reality ourselves. The idea of a unitary reality sure seems to be on the ropes here.



posted on May, 2 2007 @ 06:19 PM
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We are not a bubble reality We are part of a greater dimensional reality.
the quest for the Higgs Boson is what they hope to find, amoungst other things.




[edit on 2-5-2007 by junglelord]



posted on May, 2 2007 @ 06:49 PM
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Originally posted by liquidself
The idea of a unitary reality sure seems to be on the ropes here.


I dont know but I think each universe is a separate and distinct reality. We create our reality in this universe and another universe creates their own reality.



posted on May, 2 2007 @ 11:25 PM
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Originally posted by etshrtslr

Originally posted by liquidself
The idea of a unitary reality sure seems to be on the ropes here.


I dont know but I think each universe is a separate and distinct reality. We create our reality in this universe and another universe creates their own reality.


With that in mind, Id like to ask, do all potentials and realities exist simultaneously? Thats what I got from the slit videos? Or am I wrong?


x08

posted on May, 3 2007 @ 01:25 AM
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Schroedinger's Cat... wouldn't it be observing itself? and hence would still be alive? the only reason it wouldn't be alive is because it's dead and hence not observing itself~



posted on May, 3 2007 @ 08:24 AM
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Originally posted by AMANNAMEDQUEST
With that in mind, Id like to ask, do all potentials and realities exist simultaneously? Thats what I got from the slit videos? Or am I wrong?


My understanding based on the double slit is that everything is a wave of probability until it is observed and the wave function collapses which creates the observable reality.



posted on May, 3 2007 @ 08:43 AM
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I believe that both potentials exist at the same time.
For instance at the macro level the wave funtion has collapsed and remains collapsed.
At the quantum level it remains a wave function until investigated at that level where in it then collapses.
that would solve both dilemmas and we remain collapesed in the macro frame yet wave function till tested at the quantum frame
this will allow manipulation of the universe on the quantum scale while remaining in a full frame wave collapsed universial reality



posted on May, 3 2007 @ 08:55 AM
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Originally posted by AMANNAMEDQUEST
With that in mind, Id like to ask, do all potentials and realities exist simultaneously? Thats what I got from the slit videos? Or am I wrong?


in effect the single photon or electron or whatever passes down both paths unless it is observed, so yes, if unobserved, both possibilities exist as a reality.

to be more precise, the unobserved electron exists at every point in the universe, a probability wave is a graph plotting the most likely point it will exist once it is observed, starting from almost 0 where is is least likely to exist to a peak of almost 100 where it is most likely to exist, but until it is observed, it exists equally at every point on the plot.



here's another bit of weirdness related to the split experiment, lets say you set the experiment up and made both paths a billion miles long, so that it would take the particles a year to reach the end, and you set it up ''unobserved'' so that at the end you would see the fractured effect. then you shot off a five minute burst of electrons.

if six months later, long after the electons have set off on their journey, you install measuring devices a few mm from the slits, when the electrons arrive they will show in two bars, this means either the electrons wave function collapsed before anyone thought of measuring them, so they can ''see the future'' or that upon observation the electrons changed reality so that instead of each electron traveling both paths each electron chose one or the other, so either the electron or the observer ''changed the past''.

to me both are conclusions are very very weird.

[edit on 3-5-2007 by pieman]






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