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Defending the Faith?

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posted on Apr, 25 2007 @ 02:19 PM
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A link in the ads to the right of the Recent Posts list got me wondering ...

If a religion's truth is obvious and all should be able to see it, why does it need defending?

Shouldn't it be enough to know that one is right and not have to explain and justify one's faith?

I ask this not to be facetious, but out of real curiosity. Because the way some of the actual people in my real life act makes me wonder who they are trying to hard to convince about their faith: me or them?

I am going through an extremely difficult time in my life right now and one of my best friends keeps asking me how it would hurt to pray. Couldn't I try it just once?

No! I don't believe! I've told you this repeatedly and it really annoys me that you won't respect my right to NOT believe the way I respect your right TO believe. I don't argue with her about her god, I just accept that we have different views about the subject.

The vehemence that some people exhibit when "defending the faith" reminds me of cultists and junkies, peer pressure. In my lifetime, I've found, with any other subject, if a person keeps insisting on their point of view despite another's obvious disagreement, that the insistent person is trying to convince themselves more than the other person.

Any thoughts on this?



posted on Apr, 25 2007 @ 03:18 PM
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The True Believer

I used this book when I taught philosophy years ago. I think it also depends upon the person "preaching." Sometimes when someone is new to a faith practice, they are excited and wish to share their excitement with others. Often they will simmer down after a while and start thinking about what their faith really entails.

Depending upon your difficulties, thinking about larger issues in a religious or philosophical framework can often put the issue in a bigger context to make sense out of it. For myself it's a somewhat peculiar mixture of philosophical analysis and Buddhist meditation. I wish you good luck in finding a way out of your difficulties.



posted on Apr, 25 2007 @ 03:34 PM
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Originally posted by Toromos
Sometimes when someone is new to a faith practice, they are excited and wish to share their excitement with others.


All too true. There's no zealot like a convert.

And this is a very sticky, troubling topic the OP has raised. Allow me to slip the shoe on the other foot, just for a second. One of your very best friends is going through a very troubling time. You have what you are absloutely convinced is a way to ease his or her burden. Beyond a doubt in your mind, if you had the ability to convince them to employ your solution, they would reap great benefit.

At what point do you just give up and leave them to their own devices? Remember, it's your best friend.

I sure don't have an answer. I'll just say, cut 'em some slack. They mean well and have your best interest at heart.

Probably.


Edn

posted on Apr, 25 2007 @ 04:27 PM
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Have patience, maybe listen (if you haven't already). Although in my opinion this person should respect your beliefs in which she has clearly forgotten to do so, getting worked up about it helps no one in the end.

Then when shes all done just tell her what you think and hope she listens to you in return for you listening to her.



posted on Apr, 25 2007 @ 04:30 PM
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That's just it. I HAVE listened and heard her out. Multiple times. She won't let it lie and it's getting harder for me to be polite about it.

But thanks for all the interesting advice, and the different viewpoints on the subject. Gives me something to ponder next time she starts in on me so I won't cut her off short. And let her have her say. Again. :shk:



posted on Apr, 28 2007 @ 05:02 AM
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Originally posted by MajorMalfunction
I am going through an extremely difficult time in my life right now and one of my best friends keeps asking me how it would hurt to pray. Couldn't I try it just once?


I don't pray as such, I meditate and create constructive thoughts. Work out what thoughts are a circle, unproductive that keep you in an unproductive state. Perhaps best described as the worry cycle, the same thoughts go over and over and they stay there, until it manifests.

I will include a thread that was very helpful to me. It is worth a read.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

I place my trust in my spiritual helpers/guides and am very careful of my thoughts.

I think prayer helps people not necessarily because it by miracle sorts the issue, but I feel when people pray or talk about an issue troubling them, it helps because they are giving the carp over to someone else, God. Most of the time, the thoughts and words end up on the astral plane.

I really believe the tough times are where you are growing and it is a good thing. You could be outgrowing some of your surroundings/people etc. It happens and when crap manifests in your life, it is generally working for your higher good.

But, I do feel, if she is getting up your nose and you are finding it hard to be polite, break the cycle, don't talk to her about your issues.

all the best



[edit on 28-4-2007 by NJE777]



posted on Apr, 28 2007 @ 06:59 AM
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Originally posted by MajorMalfunction
A link in the ads to the right of the Recent Posts list got me wondering ...

If a religion's truth is obvious and all should be able to see it, why does it need defending?

Shouldn't it be enough to know that one is right and not have to explain and justify one's faith?

I ask this not to be facetious, but out of real curiosity. Because the way some of the actual people in my real life act makes me wonder who they are trying to hard to convince about their faith: me or them?

I am going through an extremely difficult time in my life right now and one of my best friends keeps asking me how it would hurt to pray. Couldn't I try it just once?

No! I don't believe! I've told you this repeatedly and it really annoys me that you won't respect my right to NOT believe the way I respect your right TO believe. I don't argue with her about her god, I just accept that we have different views about the subject.

The vehemence that some people exhibit when "defending the faith" reminds me of cultists and junkies, peer pressure. In my lifetime, I've found, with any other subject, if a person keeps insisting on their point of view despite another's obvious disagreement, that the insistent person is trying to convince themselves more than the other person.

Any thoughts on this?

Hi/
Maybe if this person cares about you enough and you care enough to remain friends and all, then you should tell them to 'pray on your behalf' that way you dont have to get annoyed about her trying to talk to you about something you are not sure of, or dont want to know.
would that hurt your feelings, if she was to do this ?
Sometimes we should not allow pride to stand in our way........be the lesser guy and see what she says.
I would suggest you tell her to pray for you, if that is what makes her happy and see how things go from there.

take care,
helen



posted on Apr, 28 2007 @ 07:01 AM
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Originally posted by NJE777
I think prayer helps people not necessarily because it by miracle sorts the issue, but I feel when people pray or talk about an issue troubling them, it helps because they are giving the carp over to someone else, God. Most of the time, the thoughts and words end up on the astral plane.
[edit on 28-4-2007 by NJE777]


I like this sentiment a lot. I think many who tend to be skeptical of traditional forms of prayer think that praying is a commandment, that it is something that God demands of us because he's insecure or egotistical. I think, on the contrary, the admonition to pray is for our benefit, and the great transcendence, whatever that might be, recognizes this.



posted on Apr, 28 2007 @ 07:25 AM
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Originally posted by helen670
I would suggest you tell her to pray for you, if that is what makes her happy and see how things go from there.


That is brilliant!! Definitely one way around it. That way, you don't offend your friend and reject it at the same time!!

Excellent Helen!



posted on Apr, 28 2007 @ 08:52 AM
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Thanks again, my friends. I've told her, I don't pray, but I don't object to people praying for me. I don't like it when they pray that I'll find their lord & savior because that's not happening, but I don't object to people doing what they believe in on my behalf. Not one iota.

I don't, and can't pray. But I do talk to people, and I journal. That's my prayer, I guess. At least it gets it all out.



posted on May, 9 2007 @ 10:55 AM
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No one should pressure anyone to become saved or convert. Thats why its called free will. Thats what we're entitled to as people. My Uncle just got saved and he's in his 80's. People are ready in their own time.



posted on May, 9 2007 @ 11:19 AM
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yes very true and you know sometimes one person is put in front of you plant that seed but thats what is so hard because sometimes (especially with me) you want to plant ,water, and grow that seed all at once and it turns that person almost always away and its harder to bring them back you know?



posted on May, 12 2007 @ 06:18 PM
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Unfortunately, it's sort of like the two versions of the Golden Rule.

The one most Christians believe in is, "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."

The Jewish one is, "Do unto others as they would have you do unto them."

To my mind the second is far superior. Example: You love Chinese food and hate Mexican food. I don't mind Chinese food but love Mexican food. If I take you out to dinner for your birthday and use the first version, I bring you to a Mexican restaurant. If I use the second version I bring you to the Chinese restaurant.

Far too many Christians seem to have had an empathy lobotomy - they can't really understand that others may have different views from theirs.

MMF, you might tell her, "You know, I've considered that, but I don't know whether to pray to the Catholic god, the Mormon god, Allah, or Buddha. And I certainly don't want to take the risk of offending one of them by praying to another or the wrong one. So, for me, it's much safer to avoid praying to any of them."

Occam



posted on May, 13 2007 @ 01:46 AM
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Originally posted by Occam
Far too many Christians seem to have had an empathy lobotomy - they can't really understand that others may have different views from theirs.

Occam


I actually agree with this. Christians that were raised to be Christian tend to never think that others do not believe in God or that there are other viewpoints out there. This is because many of them have been so sheltered with Christian family and friends and of course, the church.

The best Christian Apologetics, in my opinion, are converts. For example, C.S. Lewis and Dr. Gene Scott were very good at Christian Apologetics and set many precedents for defending Christianity, and they were both people who were once Atheist. Because they were once Atheist, they know how Atheists think and feel about God and thus they know how and what to say in order to defend Christianity. I myself was not born into a church, so I tend to roll my eyes when I hear Christians preaching esoterically.



posted on May, 13 2007 @ 08:36 AM
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The missing ingredient to religion I believe is doubt.. once there is doubt the faith seems to subside.



posted on May, 13 2007 @ 12:45 PM
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Originally posted by JeSuisAKittyCat
The missing ingredient to religion I believe is doubt.. once there is doubt the faith seems to subside.


doubt is also the primary ingredient of reasoned suspicion. you start out with doubt then look into that doubt and realize that there is a reason to be suspicious and then you stop believing through reason.


oh reason, thank you for being the great enemy of faith!



posted on May, 14 2007 @ 09:12 AM
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When there is doubt your faith, if you dwell on this doubt, does subside but if you dwell on wrong thoughts than negative things hang around. Likewise, if you dwell on positive thoughts positive things hang around. If you are not dwelling on the thoughts and replace it with good ones then your faith grows stronger.




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