When 2012 rolls around, and nothing happens . . .

Densha82-
'I'd hardly call the Mayans advanced at this point, obviously they weren't even as advanced as the Spanish when they were colonized. Let's look at them objectively and not idealistically, they were a rather primitive civilization, culturally and politically, even in their own time.'


I beg to differ. The Mayans were exceptionally smart. They were highly skilled mathmaticians, astronomers, artists and architects. They had a very complex calender and needed a 'place-holder' for their intricate system which lead them to the idea of 'none of something' or 'zero' in the 4th century but wasn't even accepted in Europe until the 12th/13th century. Hell, the even older Olmecs knew the earth was round 1,000's(yes, 1,000's) of yrs before Europe accepted it as fact. Ancient does not = unintelligent.

Peace. K*

edit for spelling by me.



[edit on 4/28/07 by Demetre]

What you may call "advanced" today (America, for example) I see as "primitive". It's all to do with perspective, and in mine, any civilization based on an extremely physical level is limited to a 3 dimensional prison - when there is so much more to this existence. Thats primitive.

I won't bother going on about what I think your motives were with your original post, because I admit, I cannot say for certain what you were thinking... but likewise, you cannot say for certain that there is no truth to the 2012 predictions (which is what gets to me). Your main argument is about history. How nothing has happened in all the past predictions made therefore nothing will happen now. My point is that there is a lot more to this particular date than what has been made in the past - and it's not just to do with what the Mayan's prophecised. By reading your OP, I could see that you haven't yet done much research into the whole subject... which is why I suggest looking into this more before stating things as fact.

I'm pretty sure none of the "believers" of 2012 think for absolute certain something will happen. It's the possibility in something happening that we know for certain. Noone can deny a possibility, just as noone can know for certain.

But all the evidence pointing towards the possibility, certainly helps...

Ancient does not = unintelligent.

Certainly not, but while the Mayans may have been advanced at some point in time, they had certainly hit a wall by the time they were colonized. They were primitive compared to the Europeans. But this argument is kind of moot in face of the real point here: no matter how advanced they were there is no way they could predict the future, simple as that. If there is any *evidence* of the Mayans ever having predicted anything outside of what science allows (predicting eclipses and the like), then I'd sure love to see it.

Your main argument is about history. How nothing has happened in all the past predictions made therefore nothing will happen now.

Yes, of course, maybe this is the one prediction out of thousands (millions?) which will come true. Maybe, finally, humanity's psychic powers are really kicking in gear on this one, and maybe the next hand of poker I play will give me a royal flush. I'm not counting it. You have to play the odds, especially when the odds are about 1 billion to 1 or less. If that gives anyone the slightest bit of hope that any such prediction could come true, I'd suggest a course in statistics (would be a better use of time than studying prophecy at any rate).

I'm pretty sure none of the "believers" of 2012 think for absolute certain something will happen. It's the possibility in something happening that we know for certain. Noone can deny a possibility, just as noone can know for certain.

This has been part of my argument already. What you're pointing out here is a flaw of prophecy, not a strength, and certainly not a surprise for a skeptic. It's this kind of thinking that lets everyone have a cop-out when stuff doesn't happen and allows prediction garbage to continue on again for another generation.

Think of it this way: it would take one single piece of evidence to disprove evolution. A fossil in the wrong place, a real irreducibly complex organ or bone, etc. Of course nothing of the sort has been found, and not for lack of trying, so we continue to adopt the evolutionary explanation because ALL of the evidence fits it (regardless of what the Bible does or does not say). In prophecy and just about any other paranormal / conspiratorial / faith-based belief, contrary evidence is found all the time, but that only makes people come up with excuses, ad hoc arguments, and other tripe.

To say you "know" the possibility that something will happen is pretty meaningless. I know for absolute fact that things will happen in the year 2012, so how does that make it at all special? I am, right now, predicting war, natural disasters, human suffering, and tragedy striking America, but that happens every year! There's no need to try and construe some special meaning out of these things when they happen again in 2012.

[edit on 6-5-2007 by Densha82]

Finally, about my motive for this thread. First of all, of course, I am a skeptic and wanted to see how people respond to that position. However, there are other purposes I had in mind here.

I wanted to make people realize that this has all happened before, and will probably happen again after 2012. The one thing I can say I can predict is that people who believe in this stuff and/or make money off of it will make myriad excuses for why nothing really special happened. Things that are actually ordinary will be made to be prophecy-fulfilling somehow, people will say we changed our course for the better, yet others will say that humanity was not yet ready for transcendence and will move the date forward.

I want those who read this post to think about it when 2013 rolls around as normal. I hope people understand how predictable this sort of prophecy thing is (in that it doesn't work and that when faced with another failed prediction the same old excuses will come flying out).

Those of you who have said something like "I only believe in the possibility" already have your excuses lined up for 2013, so I am a bit more interested in those who may firmly believe this will finally be the prediction to come true, that humanity will be enlightened / advanced / destroyed / transcended etc. But I already guess I predicted the excuses we'll see in my first paragraph here.

I guess I just want to cross my fingers that a little logic has seeped into a few people's minds on this subject at least, and if it takes until 2013 to really take affect then that's Ok. The seeds of reason have to be planted somewhere among the forest of bunk, and they may take some time to grow.

Well i am more concerned what we can do today and also i agree with you about fairy tales so many people like to believe in. Reason for that is, deep inside people are aware there is something more than they can see, but they don't know what is it, so religion is created. But after that religion is used for control and limiting people.

Still you see many references to 2012-DEC-21 11:11, recent and old. Something may happen but it's wrong to just believe something will save us or show the path or whatever. We need to take care of our problems with our knowledge and cooperation. If something else helps us with that 2012, even better, but we should not rely on some promised rescue, maybe it's deadline after all.

For those who believe in 2012-DEC-21 11:11 let me explain a bit. This is like cosmic solar eclipse, not real eclipse but something else. It is already happening and 2012-DEC-21 11:11 is just mid-point. This is why you will notice awakenings of all sorts, truth movements and chaos. But still do not rely on it to fix your problems.


[edit on 10-5-2007 by detonator]

there are thousands of parallel universes.. in some predictions came true the others not..

and what may happen or already happened, we can be dead.. because of some end of the world, but we just don't realize it.. this can be the land of the dead where we are now, and some people who stayed alive are crying on our graves..
who knows

reply to post by Densha82


Doomsday Deneyers! Who will be the first to break and run? Brave people, watch the fear build, until, the big, big tsunami in the pacific, again.

Then the monster storms slam into the US gulf coast. Refineries go down, many US refugees. The core is overloading. Yellowstone threatens. Will it blow?

Take care. ------------------------------PC

reply to post by somedude


Y2K did turn out to be a bust...I wonder if the citizens of planet earth were caught up in as much anticipation when Y1K was approaching..?

When 2012 comes. im gonna go what i do any other day... open the lap top im on with my Mojito and ear peace. If i go out i want to go with a Mojito.

reply to post by 12SeVeN34


May 2007........? did I miss something????????????

Originally posted by Syntaxstealth
When 2012 comes. im gonna go what i do any other day... open the lap top im on with my Mojito and ear peace. If i go out i want to go with a Mojito.

When 2012 finally does get here, I'll be 62 and looking forward to retirement...sure do hope that we have a few more years after that...if not...THAT would really suk

reply to post by ropaq50


I dont think it would be so bad. Think of all the tragedies we are capable of. Do you honestly think we deserve a place in the galaxy? If the world doesn't end on 2012 it will by the hands of man/woman eventually. its just a ticking time bomb and we are on the hand passing quarter to 12.

Because the NWO knows about the growing 2012 panic, they of course will use it Think twice.

why does this year carry so much significance?

[edit on 27-8-2007 by xenomorph07]

Anyone can say that "you haven't researched the subject enough". Those people need to get over themselves, because the people writing books with these predictions and theories are all pseudo-scientists basing their knowlege on....*drum roll* NOTHING. Don't get me wrong, some amazing things are going to happen in 2012. The Sun's sunspot cycle is going to reach a high, send some powerful solar flares into the atmosphere, making the Northern Lights seeable in previously unseeable areas. Some othere things that escape me as of now also, but nothing that is going to "transcend" the human race, nothing that is going to shatter the Earth into oblivion. As for many cultures predicting the same date as a date of great importance, they were right....it is a date of great importance, the Sun will line up with the center of the galaxy, and only in about 25,000 years will that happen again, they all saw this was going to happen, and chose it as perhaps, a date to base a calendar on, just as we base time on how long it takes for the Earth to go around our Sun. The Earth goes round once, thats a year. So why not make a longer calendar based on when the sun returns to a certain position in the sky? The center of the galaxy occurs somewhere in the constellation Ophiuchus, the serpent bearer, just to give you an idea where this occurs. Don't get me wrong, I have my own beliefs, and i'm not trying to knock yours. But don't believe the damned vampires that are trying to profit from your beliefs. Their just trying to sell books...

reply to post by rrahim1

I think 2012 will happen but it will be our faults. First of all this 2012 prophecy is a load of bull. Here is what is going to happen.

Prediction: People are going to freak out and the day before (Dec 20 2012) and there will be murder, rape, violence, hatred, and killing because people want to let feelings out before they die. The next day, the people who were not ignorant enough to believe this myth will live and life goes on.

2012 is fake end of Discussion

reply to post by Densha82


Yeah - there's little scientific evidence, right? It's just "biblical and Nostradamus'" predictions right?

Skeptics are in denial because the fact that 2012 could and very well possibly IS going to happen is to fearful to accept the OVERWHELMING evidence that it's coming. Let's see, astronomers, Russian scientists, biblical, philisophical, and yes, even modern--Ivy League taught scientists are all saying the same thing. Get over yourself - skeptics are just skeptics to BE skeptics.

Study: Earth's magnetic field is changing
Observing fluid motions in core could help scientists predict future changes

By Jeremy Hsu
Source: www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26273268/

The innermost part of the earth. The outer core extends from 2500 to 3500 miles below the earth's surface and is liquid metal. The inner core is the central 500 miles and is solid metal.




Something beneath the surface is changing Earth's protective magnetic field, which may leave satellites and other space assets vulnerable to high-energy radiation.

The gradual weakening of the overall magnetic field can take hundreds and even thousands of years. But smaller, more rapid fluctuations within months may leave satellites unprotected and catch scientists off guard, new research finds.

A new model uses satellite data from the past nine years to show how sudden fluid motions within the Earth's core can alter the magnetic envelope around our planet. This represents the first time that researchers have been able to detect such rapid magnetic field changes taking place over just a few months.

"There are these changes in the South Atlantic, an area where the magnetic field has the smallest envelope at one third [of what is] normal," said Mioara Mandea, a geophysicist at the GFZ German Research Center for Geosciences in Potsdam, Germany.

Even before the newly detected changes, the South Atlantic Anomaly represented a weak spot in the magnetic field — a dent in Earth's protective bubble

Bubble bobble
The Earth's magnetic field extends about 36,000 miles into space, generated from the spinning effect of the electrically-conductive core that acts something like a giant electromagnet. The field creates a tear-drop shaped bubble that has constantly shielded life on Earth against much of the high-energy radiation flowing from the sun.

The last major change in the field took place some 780,000 years ago during a magnetic reversal, although such reversals seem to occur more often on average. A flip in the north and south poles typically involves a weakening in the magnetic field, followed by a period of rapid recovery and reorganization of opposite polarity.

Some studies in recent years have suggested the next reversal might be imminent, but the jury is out on that question.

Measuring interactions between the magnetic field and the molten iron core 1,864 miles down has proven difficult in the past, but the constant observations of satellites such as CHAMP and Orsted have begun to bring the picture into focus.

Electric storm
Mandea worked with Nils Olsen, a geophysicist at the University of Copenhagen in Denmark, to create a model of the fluid core that fits with the magnetic field changes detected by the satellites.

However, the rapid weakening of the magnetic field in the South Atlantic Anomaly region could signal future troubles for such satellites. Radiation storms from the sun could fry electronic equipment on satellites that suddenly lacked the protective cover of a rapidly changing magnetic field.

"For satellites, this could be a problem," Mandea told SPACE.com. "If there are magnetic storms and high-energy particles coming from the sun, the satellites could be affected and their connections could be lost."

Neon Haze got me to thinking, and it occures to me that all the prophecy that has ever been produced had some tie to the past, and in that vane, it would seem that 2012, being a Mayan prophecy, or actually lack of prophecy, since everything goes blank thereafter is predicated on past happenings in a cyclical sense.To prophecy on an event in the future it usually has occured in the past and is expected to re-occur in so many solar or planitary rotations or cycles. Me, I think we will find alot of "end" stuff on ebay real cheap in 2013. Rich

It's true the pole's will shift, correct? This is the only piece of information regarding the whole 2012 speculations that has me asking, will something detrimental happen?
Who knows.

reply to post by rrahim1


I do believe that religion can be manipulated to control people, but I dont think that has anything to do with 2012