What evidence would permanently sink religion?

I was just having this discussion with someone the other day, and the question cropped up.

What item of evidence would be enough to irrefutably shoot down the notion of any kind of God/afterlife/spirituality once and for all?

Any suggestions?

As far as I am concerned, nothing. Science can neither prove nor disprove matters of the spirit.

Nothing can, or will short of complete genocide of anyone who believed in the religion.

I'm not a religious man myself, devout atheist, but I have to hand it to people who do indeed follow a religion. Nothing will shift their view, even if Jesus himself came down and said everything they knew was a lie, the belief would still go on.

Why? I'm not sure really, but I think people like the feeling that they are being protected and that life continues after death.

A very generalized view, I know, but the only way I could have said it.

I agree nothing can sink religion right now, no because it can or not be prove . . . but rather because the religious believers of today are into the faith aspect of it.

Faith is what feed the believers soul.

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
As far as I am concerned, nothing. Science can neither prove nor disprove matters of the spirit.

I think science is much closer to proving spirit exist than disproving.

veritas.arizona.edu...

Originally posted by etshrtslr


I think science is much closer to proving spirit exist than disproving.

veritas.arizona.edu...

Well, science is exploring and there are some scientists who are trying to validate the spiritual. Whether they ever do conclusively or not, remains to be seen.

Humankind is far too intelligent. Our minds wander. We are constantly paying attention to our surroundings and behaviors and seeing how they relate to our existence. At a very young age we discover it hurts emotionally when our parents are unhappy with our behaviors they do not approve of. This same logic is used in our understanding of our existence in our surroundings. We "need" something else, whether that be God, or a something of our own creation. As soon as we honestly believe we are the center of the universe and nothing else exists, the human dilemma approaches. The human-dilemma being the question: "No, there must be more than this".

As long as people continue to ask the question:"There must be more than this", then there will be a higher-consciousness for a higher power greater than ourselves needed.

Just my opinion of course

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth

Well, science is exploring and there are some scientists who are trying to validate the spiritual. Whether they ever do conclusively or not, remains to be seen.

As with you SOT I do not need the evidence but IMHO I do think there is some pretty compelling evidence already from various branches of science not the least of which is quantum physics.

I think a more pertinent question would be is what happens when science does conclusively prove the existence of the spirit?

Originally posted by etshrtslr

what happens when science does conclusively prove the existence of the spirit?

Actually for me I do not need science to tell me that we have a soul and that the soul is eternal. . .

But I am not believer in a christian god . . . but rather believe in a source of power from we all come from and will return too.

I think that it may help religious believers with their faith, but for somebody like me non-religious believer It will make what I always has known as a fact.

Here is a website that is showing the Vatican and the inside...


link
www.denfert.com...#

check the pictures out, guess whos there?
Mgr. Corrado Balducci is one of the world's leading experts on exorcism and demonology. In his hands the book of the ritual of exorcism written in latin.

I can only echo the words that have been posted above.... Nothing!.
The poster portrayed in the 'X-Files' office -'I WANT TO BELIEVE' is pertinent to many subjects on ATS and organised religion is no exception.
Even if science had granite hard irrefutable evidence to prove to mankind that their deities were a myth and a figment of their imagination this would still be insufficient. My experiences with Christians are quite mixed. Many believe every sentence in the bible is 'Gods word' while others take the stance that all saints and sinners both take a chance on the validity
( or not ) of a higher conciousness.
Religeon is here to stay

Originally posted by andysutherland
I was just having this discussion with someone the other day, and the question cropped up.

What item of evidence would be enough to irrefutably shoot down the notion of any kind of God/afterlife/spirituality once and for all?

Any suggestions?

To be honest I think religion has managed to do that all by itself, simply by what the followers of the different religions hold their faith to.

Too bad I'm 1 against 5 billion But bring it on...

As a christian myself and someone who has been used by God in various situations, there can never be any evidence to prove that God does not exist because he does, just as much as we do.
It amazes me how none believers always think that belief in God is only through faith and nothing else. there are many christians who God uses for doing his work here on earth, like words of knowlage for people or for a physical or mental healing. I know many of you don't believe that these things happen but I can assure you that they do. So for people who have this relationship with God, he is real. Nothing can ever change thier mind.
Cheers
jon

Originally posted by etshrtslr
I think a more pertinent question would be is what happens when science does conclusively prove the existence of the spirit?

Excellent question.

The definition of what constitutes conclusive proof is open to debate. But I don't think that many will believe in the existence of spirit until they are forced to, simply by being dead, through an out-of-body experience, and/or a near-death experience.

The following is a wonderful reference page that provides an abundance of scientific evidence for the survival of consciousness after death and thereby the existence of spirit or the discarnate dimensions:

Scientific Evidence For The Survival Of Consciousness After Death.

As it currently stands, the scientific community as a whole will never accept the existence of spirit. However, with time, and it is already starting to happen, that parochial attitude will change as the evidence for the survival of consciousness becomes overwhelming.

Originally posted by jon1
As a christian myself and someone who has been used by God in various situations, there can never be any evidence to prove that God does not exist because he does, just as much as we do.
It amazes me how none believers always think that belief in God is only through faith and nothing else. there are many christians who God uses for doing his work here on earth, like words of knowlage for people or for a physical or mental healing. I know many of you don't believe that these things happen but I can assure you that they do. So for people who have this relationship with God, he is real. Nothing can ever change thier mind.
Cheers
jon

Goodie... and for all you religious nut cases (sorry, but that's really how I see anyone who has faith in any kind of religion) out there, remember the above quote when you go second guessing believers of life on other planets / life outside this world visiting (in this case understood as aliens).

The only difference between you and my kind of believers is that the concrete evidence of life beyond earth will most likely come sooner than your for soo long needed evidence that there exists some higher form of being that actually cares for you.

Buck up and get a spine, noone controls your actions other than yourself.

Originally posted by flice

Goodie... and for all you religious nut cases (sorry, but that's really how I see anyone who has faith in any kind of religion) out there, remember the above quote when you go second guessing believers of life on other planets / life outside this world visiting (in this case understood as aliens).

The only difference between you and my kind of believers is that the concrete evidence of life beyond earth will most likely come sooner than your for soo long needed evidence that there exists some higher form of being that actually cares for you.

Buck up and get a spine, noone controls your actions other than yourself.

Why the hostility flice?.
How do you know what I belive regards other life forms.
And what kind of believer am I?
Buck up and get a spine, What's all that about.
Now I will tell you what I believe. I believe in God. I believe in life on other planets somewhere out in the universe. I'm 50/50 on whether they have visited earth even though I have seen a couple of weird things in my time.
Bigfoot? I think it may be possible.
So you see flice, Im not such a bad guy after all. I have just had some experiences that you have not. there again I am 56 so I have had time to investigate things more.
Cheers
jon


[edit on 24-4-2007 by jon1]

Paul Richard is probably correct in his assertion that "Religion will evolve." You know, they tried to throw this "Jesus' remains were found" bit at people. Well, for me, even if they did, it would mean little. When one looks at what Jesus did after death, one of two things are implied.

1) Either he physically resurrected from the dead and was able to master materiality. For example, being able to walk through walls and such.

or

2) It is speaking of a spiritual ressurection.

If one looks at the fact that te apostles didn't initially recognize Jesus and he was able to "walk through doors" and such, it is almost implied that Jesus was in the spirit. However, I cannot rule out that he physically resurrected and was able to master materiality.

So, even such a find as Jesus' "bones" wouldn't necessarily toll the death knell of Christianity. Also, with religions such as Buddhism and Hinduism, there is also know way to destroy them because they are mostly based, yet, once again, on SPIRITUAL concepts.

Originally posted by Paul_Richard

As it currently stands, the scientific community as a whole will never accept the existence of spirit. However, with time, and it is already starting to happen, that parochial attitude will change as the evidence for the survival of consciousness becomes overwhelming.

I agree there will always be some regardless of the evidence that will not believe it. But as I stated earlier for anyone willing to look with an open mind the evidence is pretty overwhelming right now.

Originally posted by jon1
So you see flice, Im not such a bad guy after all. I have just had some experiences that you have not. there again I am 56 so I have had time to investigate things more.
[edit on 24-4-2007 by jon1]

heh, but so have I.
Seen how the emmersion into religion takes some pretty normal kids and drags them into a drone like condition where religion suddenly is the only thing that gives their life meaning?
That I find pretty scary :S
Most times these normal kids have experienced some changes in their life which may have desocialized them making them vunurable towards being prey for agressive religions such as christianity or islam.

Once they start showing themselves again to the "outside" world they like to keep an appearence of being healed or saved, but for someone who is immune to religious propagande it is pretty obvious that they are not the same as they used to be before that thing that brought them down... they do not look socially healthy... and for some reason they now think that they are on a mission to save you too?

After having seen so many people subject themselves to this kind of mind control, this exhibiting of lack of responsibility for themselves I have no regard left to be held towards anyone who advocate the good use of any kind of cult (ie. a faith in any kind of religion).

Therefore my blunt and harsh comment of "buck up", which btw way wasn't minded directly at you but instead the general population of faithholders. Sorry if that wasn't clear The statement you made which I quoted just served as a for me descent offset for my own statement.

Cheers

[edit on 24/4/07 by flice]

Hi flice.
I have to agree with most of what you have said. In any kind of society there are allways the ones who take things to the extreme and make a mess of it for the rest of us.
Boy' there have been some loony so called christians in the past but there are some who just do what we do and don't take things to the extreme.
We just get on with the job.
By the way I can't wait for the day when the truth comes out about ALIENS. that will put the cat amongst the pigeons, so to speak.
Cheers.