It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Religion, God, and Drug Use

page: 1
2
<<   2 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Apr, 22 2007 @ 03:32 PM
link   
I've always found this an interesting topic and I wanted your opinions on it, because I value this community very much, friends and foes alike. believers and non believers alike. i appreciate all of your threads, comments, etc.

especially the non believers, because you give me something to reply to.

anyways, i've read that certain religions used to use certain mind altering substances in their rituals, albiet mostly pagan and tribal religions.

i was wondering if you find the rasta's use of cannabis as authentic in their attempt to be closer to God or more receptive of his message or w/e.

theres so many examples i can't even count. and now modern religions and modern believers also use drugs sometimes during worship or as a part of a ritual.

how do you feel about this? if you knew a person who was ardently religous, but used a mind altering substance occasionally and said it made them closer to God while they were on it, would you say to each their own, or think that person was very much wrong and possibly even insulting God?

but the texts say, give a man with heavy heart strong drink, and it says all seed bearing plants are here for us to use. cannabis was also burnt along with other scented herbs and plants in old jewish burnt offerings, known as qaneh bos'm in old hebrew.



posted on Apr, 22 2007 @ 03:36 PM
link   
For me, this is sort of a moot point. I view some drugs as being a vehicle to open people to spiritual realities. While I have never done drugs and certainly do not recommend them, I do think that some "hallucinogenic" drugs open people to another reality.

With that being said, it is argued that all religions have been influenced by these "hallucinogenes." Whether or not that is true, I really don't know. It's believed by some that Neanderthal man was the first one to be exposed to these chemicals but nothing conclusive has ever been presented.

[edit on 22-4-2007 by SpeakerofTruth]



posted on Apr, 22 2007 @ 03:40 PM
link   
I've done lots of drugs in my checkered past, and I have been present at peyote ceremony. There are many ways of reaching "god" if you believe in that principle. There is no one right or wrong way.

Having done hallucinogens in my past, I can state that yes, it is a valid way to get to "god."

Nobody has the right to judge anyone else's beliefs or ways to the "source."

Religious experience is about altered mind states, whether through prayer, meditation, drug use, dancing, or whatever. I personally think that saying that one way is correct over the others is egotistical, which is one of my problems with organized religion.

There are as many ways to "god" as there are people that believe in it. There is no One True Way. That's just advertising.



posted on Apr, 22 2007 @ 03:45 PM
link   

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
. It's believed by some that Neanderthal man was the first one to be exposed to these chemicals but nothing conclusive has ever been presented.


Some, like Terence McKenna, take it back even further than that, and posit the 'stoned ape' theory of human evolution.

en.wikipedia.org...

But you're right about there being no real evidence, we just know human cultures have been using entheogens a lot through history.

As for whether it's a good thing, in general, I think it is for some people. Not from a theistic POV though, just from a mind & healing POV. Can be quite therapeutic when undertaken properly.



posted on Apr, 22 2007 @ 05:32 PM
link   
I too sought spiritual awareness thru the use of psychedlics and hallucinogenics. And I found it.

But this path is littered with the bones and souls of those that neglected to be armed with the sword of knowledge and the shield of conviction.

There is a very fine line between Nirvana and madness.



posted on Apr, 22 2007 @ 06:36 PM
link   
Forgive me, for I've never used illegal drugs. But, aren't hallucinogenics such as marijuana simply.... hallucinogenics? Their function is to make people hallucinate, confusing their senses and giving them a false sense of heightened awareness. So isn't that it? They're not a magical gateway to God, are they?

Again, forgive me for I've never used illegal drugs... yet.


P.S. :w:



posted on Apr, 22 2007 @ 06:54 PM
link   
We'll all get there eventually. One way or another. Grace not law. Judge not but believe and trust in GOD. He's got us all in HIS hands.




posted on Apr, 22 2007 @ 06:57 PM
link   

Originally posted by TheB1ueSoldier
Forgive me, for I've never used illegal drugs. But, aren't hallucinogenics such as marijuana simply.... hallucinogenics? Their function is to make people hallucinate, confusing their senses and giving them a false sense of heightened awareness. So isn't that it? They're not a magical gateway to God, are they?



Actually it is not a "false" sense of heightened awareness. There is nothing false about it.

google is your friend!

www.recoverythroughsupport.com...



posted on Apr, 22 2007 @ 08:07 PM
link   

... However, this is where the known explanations end. There is still very little to explain why many individuals experience "flashbacks" or a re-experiencing of events while "tripping" on acid weeks and months after their last use, or why experiences exist during an '___' trip that can not be recreated without the use of psychoactively similar compounds, such as tasting color, seeing music and hearing inanimate objects breathe (7).


Very very strange... Hallucinations aside, I still don't understand how drugs could possibly make you closer to God.

[edit on 4/22/2007 by TheB1ueSoldier]



posted on Apr, 22 2007 @ 08:17 PM
link   

Originally posted by TheB1ueSoldier
Very very strange... Hallucinations aside, I still don't understand how drugs could possibly make you closer to God.


They don't for me, but to some they do. They have been used this way for thousands of years across tribes and cultures. They can also be misused, which is probably the sort of perception you have.

en.wikipedia.org...

This is from a study in 2006:


Results
Psilocybin produced a range of acute perceptual changes, subjective experiences, and labile moods including anxiety. Psilocybin also increased measures of mystical experience. At 2 months, the volunteers rated the psilocybin experience as having substantial personal meaning and spiritual significance and attributed to the experience sustained positive changes in attitudes and behavior consistent with changes rated by community observers.

Conclusions When administered under supportive conditions, psilocybin occasioned experiences similar to spontaneously occurring mystical experiences. The ability to occasion such experiences prospectively will allow rigorous scientific investigations of their causes and consequences.

www.hopkinsmedicine.org...

[edit on 22-4-2007 by melatonin]



posted on Apr, 23 2007 @ 01:07 AM
link   

Originally posted by TheB1ueSoldier
Very very strange... Hallucinations aside, I still don't understand how drugs could possibly make you closer to God.

[edit on 4/22/2007 by TheB1ueSoldier]



Trying to describe the psychedelic spiritual experience to a nonexperiencer is next to impossible. Please forgive the cliché, but it's like describing color to a person that has been blind sense birth.

Words and language just don't work when dealing with this kind of esoteric experience.

There are also other non spiritual manifestations that defy description.

But there is one experience that can be described. Utter horror and terror that can shake your consciousness to it's very core, when you confront the base, animalistic nature that resides in all men.

That is why I say, a practitioner in these Shamanistic arts, MUST be armed with the sword of knowledge and the shield of faith. There are many causalities of the daring and foolish.

[edit on 23-4-2007 by whaaa]



posted on Apr, 23 2007 @ 01:13 AM
link   
The key to understanding drug use is that it opens up the subconscious. This not only allows things to come out, it also allows things to be put in, brainwashing.



posted on Apr, 23 2007 @ 10:34 AM
link   

Originally posted by queenannie38
We'll all get there eventually. One way or another. Grace not law. Judge not but believe and trust in GOD. He's got us all in HIS hands.






I think the psychedelic ape theory is bunk - while psychedelics can offer an alternate perspective or outlook - they can also destroy the minds of people with certain sensitivities and predilections.

I have nothing against people using psychedelics in their ceremonies or recreational activities (although they should be aware of the risks) - but I don't think psychedelics are responsible for the evolution of man's sentience - it would have happened with or without them.

Fine with me for the Rasta's to smoke all the weed they like in order to achieve union with God - but why have a crutch - what happens to the union when the weed runs out? And pot has been shown to be psychologically addictive with damaging effects on motivation. Not as bad as ending up dead or wet brained from alcohol.....which - when Christ said wine was his blood - those who drink of it shall know forgiveness, probably meant the vast armies of alcoholics who have destroyed themselves and created at least 20 raging co-dependents in the process - everyone hates an alcoholic - but it is a syndrome of addiction with powerful physiologically addicting aspects that has a foothold in every nation of the world. They're like little microcosms of the bigger mess and they're subjugation to the drug decreases their responsibility for behavior.

Babble, I know - but I think the appetite for altering consciousness and mood is an appetite intrinsic to the mammalian brain - and human evolution is not a result of these substances being out there - horses get drunk on a clover patch, and they love it.

It's an appetite that is one for transcending the prison of physiological dictates. The brain has within it everything needed to experience altered states without drug use - Monks who are practiced at meditation and bio feedback are no longer subject to depression.

Drugs are a short cut to altered states with varying degrees of negative side effects including total slavery to addiction.

While mood altering drugs and psychedelics have their place, they're not required and I feel serve only to whet the appetite for deeper more sustainable exploration. Given that recreational use of drugs is different from a medicine man's disciplined and goal oriented use of hallucingenics it's a bit of an unfair comparison.

So drug use is not something I recommend, but the whole judging 'you're going to hell - or jail if you use them - is just ridiculous.


Must write a story about 'Grays' and smoking......



posted on Apr, 23 2007 @ 11:30 AM
link   
Well, my opinion is thus:

I think it's okay to use certain substances with a direct intent on having a spiritual experience, religious experience, or to heighten one that you are going to have already.

I don't think it should be needed or required to worship God.

So I disagree with a daily usage except for one: Cannabis.

And only because it is a substitute for the Old Jewish burnt offerings that are no longer made because.. hey.. theres no longer a Temple!

So maybe with that, I can understand, but with the harder psychadelics like '___' and Peyote and '___' and weird things like this.. ehh, maybe for an interesting spiritual experience or two, but my very small experience with it left me overall, frightened. Granted I was given entirely too much I believe.

But in referrence to that fact sheet, I did see music. Strangest experience of my life. No, not the notes .. reality, my vision, my eyesight of that which was around me, basically all that I could see, became the music, so when the music made highs and lows, it would appear as if invisible sound waves were traveling through my full view of vision of reality, indiscriminately, all of it, and making it all move and warp to the shape of those sound waves, which were in tune with the song. So yeah, never did that again. (not trying to make this an experience thread sorry)



posted on Apr, 23 2007 @ 01:45 PM
link   

Originally posted by TheB1ueSoldier
Forgive me, for I've never used illegal drugs. But, aren't hallucinogenics such as marijuana simply.... hallucinogenics? Their function is to make people hallucinate, confusing their senses and giving them a false sense of heightened awareness. So isn't that it? They're not a magical gateway to God, are they?



Well, "hallucinations" have never really been understood. There is much debate as to whether "hallucinations" take place in the mind, or whether it actually is something that is there that we cannot perceive with our "normal" senses.



posted on Apr, 23 2007 @ 01:50 PM
link   

Originally posted by runetang
!

So maybe with that, I can understand, but with the harder psychadelics like '___' and Peyote and '___' and weird things like this.. ehh, maybe for an interesting spiritual experience or two, but my very small experience with it left me overall, frightened. Granted I was given entirely too much I believe.



Yeah, regular users have even told me that their experiences have been frightening. Of course, I would assume that seeing entities that are diametrically different than we are would tend to scare an individual.


But in referrence to that fact sheet, I did see music. Strangest experience of my life. No, not the notes .. reality, my vision, my eyesight of that which was around me, basically all that I could see, became the music, so when the music made highs and lows, it would appear as if invisible sound waves were traveling through my full view of vision of reality, indiscriminately, all of it, and making it all move and warp to the shape of those sound waves, which were in tune with the song. So yeah, never did that again. (not trying to make this an experience thread sorry)


Pythagoras' Music of the Spheres. Basically everything is composed of music. Pythagoras even correlated rocks with "frozen music."

[edit on 23-4-2007 by SpeakerofTruth]



posted on Apr, 24 2007 @ 12:23 PM
link   
What better way to make sure everyone loves everyone else.

The Devil came out with Heroin, Cocaine, and crack.

Budda came up with '___'

Great Indian god (Mother earth,etc) with Peotae(can't spell)

Pot heads: Love everyone, chilled personality, long hair, etc.

Crack/Heroin/Coke heads: Rob banks, shoot people over a nickle.

'___' heads: Thinking of other existences, second lives, etc.

Peotae Heads: Vision Quest

*Think about it*

[edit on 24-4-2007 by Royal76]



posted on Apr, 25 2007 @ 01:02 AM
link   

Originally posted by Royal76
Budda came up with '___'

I thought it was Timothy O'Leary?


Peotae

Peyote
and don't forget the Mescal plant...



Pot heads: Love everyone, chilled personality, long hair, etc.

CERTAINLY it decreases violence! At the very least, out of sheer lack of motivation to get off the couch and FIGHT.


The strongest hallucinogen for mankind is '___' and is one that our own brains produce and distribute (albeit in varying intensities from individual to individual).

The strongest narcotic is not morphine but endomorphins, which also our own bodies are in charge of. If you've ever hurt yourself real bad and had them kick in to relieve your pain, then you know just how potent a painkiller they are! And if you haven't, then you are lucky and I hope you never find out.



posted on Apr, 25 2007 @ 05:24 AM
link   

Originally posted by queenannie38

Originally posted by Royal76
Budda came up with '___'

I thought it was Timothy O'Leary?

Not meaning to be picky but it was Albert Hoffman ( a swiss chemist, who I think is still alive and about 100) who created '___'. He was also the first to synthesise Psylocybin and Psilocin (the active in Magic mushrooms) as well.




The strongest hallucinogen for mankind is '___' and is one that our own brains produce and distribute (albeit in varying intensities from individual to individual).

Ever read some of the experiences that '___' users (and others) have had - some of them put religions and religious belief in a new light.



G



posted on Apr, 25 2007 @ 08:18 AM
link   
That's correct, Timothy Leary was just the '___' guru, who helped spread its popularity here, along with the Merry Pranksters and some other key folk.




top topics



 
2
<<   2 >>

log in

join