The BEE smoking gun

cpdaman:

I don't have much time this week to comment, but I don't think that some sort of data framing frequency matching wing beat frequencies in bees has any sort of causal link. One is radio, the other is motion. I can't make bees crash by humming, for example, nor by cutting a light on and off at 220 Hz. It's a coincidence that isn't meaningful, IMO.

I tried to find some wild honeybees to beeline Sunday, to see what sort of condition wild swarms were in, and guess what....zip. Nada. White clover everywhere and not a honeybee in sight. I didn't see bees on any of the flowering plants that normally attract them. Not only didn't I see any honeybees, but there weren't any bumblebees either. No bees drinking at the pond edges either.

I do feel the problem is not related to mobile phone signals.

I have been conducting my own experiment using the new hive that has located itself in my roof.

I have had a mobile phone switched on and situated upstairs in my bedroom here, about 1 meter (or less) from the hive with no apparent effect on the bees.

Will continue this as long as possible but will have to have the hive removed soon.

Still buzzing in the garden so things OK here at the mo!

quick comment on the cell-phone/bee paper that was quoted upthread:

A small German scientific study looking at a specific type of cordless phones and homing systems of bees exploded over the Internet and late night television shows. It morphed into erroneous reports blaming cell phones for the honeybee die-off, which scientists are calling Colony Collapse Disorder.

The scientist who wrote the paper, Stefan Kimmel, e-mailed The Associated Press to say that there is "no link between our tiny little study and the CCD-phenomenon ... anything else said or written is a lie." And U.S. Department of Agriculture top bee researcher Jeff Pettis laughs at the idea, because whenever he goes out to investigate dead bees, he cannot get a signal on his cell phone because the hives are in such remote areas.

Source

edit: should have used "ex" not "quote"


[edit on 3-5-2007 by Tom Bedlam]

let focus our attention on the bee's but also i'm sure this would not help the bee's recovery nevemind ourselves somewhere down the line.

www.counterpunch.org...

let focus our attention on the bee's but also i'm sure this would not help the bee's recovery nevemind ourselves somewhere down the line.

www.counterpunch.org...

let focus our attention on the bee's but also i'm sure this would not help the bee's recovery nevemind ourselves somewhere down the line.

www.counterpunch.org...

The edit button is there for a reason.

Please do not post three times in a row.

good call mike new computer i dont need to press those buttons so much

i am delighted you brought that to my attention

439 hz possible solution

[edit on 4-5-2007 by cpdaman]

does anyone know how to make a frequency generator that is able to have a range of say.. an acre is this possible what are the details of such a thing

speakers, amplifiers, ( plausible?)

Researchers have taken an abandoned hive and irradiated it, then stocked it with new bees. They have thrived. That seems to indicate a parasite or living thing or combination, was present in the hive and the irradiation of the hive killed off whatever was there that killed the initial hive inhabitants.

No cell phones, no magnetic fields changes. Sometimes the obvious option IS the most plausible. Haven't heard if they have found the initial contaminant in the hive that started the collapse of the hive yet.

The source of this was MSNBC or NBC I think. Can anyone confirm this?

GM crops could have unintended consequences, that's for sure. There is a reason why nature is the way it is.

[edit on 4-5-2007 by pavil]

thanks for the update pavil, i am open to all answers

i beleive this is it

go.sosd.com...

on the one hand the "head scientist for USDA" says there could be many causes but most likely in his opinion is either a virus, parastie, insectiside, or somekind of bacteria.

one might tends to rule out insectisides but since the bee's in the "quick experiment" thrived from living in the hives after they were irradiated, (although no one knows how long they have stayed in these hives since being reintroduced to irradiated hives) since this was a quick experiment may mean the irradated hives may be infected again once the bee's graze on the GM fields and THE EXP DETAILS are not known i.e how much radiation was used which could have killed toxins as well

i am still bothered buy all the literature that says they are dying when in fact they are vanishing and only a handful are found dead in/around hive

however in critique of my own self

the biggest problem i see with the frequency (gwen tower, cellphone) stuff i was mentioning yesterday is that the

The parasites, wildlife and other bees that normally raid the honey and pollen left behind when a colony dies, refuse to go anywhere near the abandoned hives.



i also remember reading about in france how the DOA was found to have alot of studies done that they DID NOT MAKE PUBLIC orginially because there was a conflict in intrest between the amount of MONEY lost to stop fipronil and indroclopid use cold turkey and instead they let the farmers continue to use there remaining supplies, which infuriated the bee keepers when they came upon this info.

point being if USDA finds a cause that would require a solution where lots of money would be lost or certain existing systems in place to be moved (i.e GWEN towers or frequeny's emittted for other reasons) would the high cost and low feasability of stopping this curb there answers toward a more politically accepted reason/ combined with a " duh we don't really know what's going on" attitude






[edit on 5-5-2007 by cpdaman]

[edit on 5-5-2007 by cpdaman]

[edit on 5-5-2007 by cpdaman]

which leads us back to this

It is particularly worrisome, she said, that the bees' death is accompanied by a set of symptoms "which does not seem to match anything in the literature."

In many cases, scientists have found evidence of almost all known bee viruses in the few surviving bees found in the hives after most have disappeared. Some had five or six infections at the same time and were infested with fungi - a sign, experts say, that the insects' immune system may have collapsed

According to Hans-Hinrich Kaatz, a professor at the University of Halle in eastern Germany and the director of the study, the bacterial toxin in the genetically modified corn may have "altered the surface of the bee's intestines, sufficiently weakening the bees to allow the parasites to gain entry

and the traces of toxic elements in the hive and nectar may be enough to repel other insects and common parastites from hijacking the nectar from the old hives or maybe some pathogen is currently present in the hive and on the nectar which thrives as a result of the weakened immune system of the missing bees which may be caused by the toxins in the gm crops

and new light showed that when irradiated the hives became once again suited for bee life, at least temporaily anyone know if irradiating bee hives would kill the toxins from Gm modified Bt crops? TOM?

The study in question is a small research project conducted at the University of Jena from 2001 to 2004. The researchers examined the effects of pollen from a genetically modified maize variant called "Bt corn" on bees. A gene from a soil bacterium had been inserted into the corn that enabled the plant to produce an agent that is toxic to insect pests. The study concluded that there was no evidence of a "toxic effect of Bt corn on healthy honeybee populations." But when, by sheer chance, the bees used in the experiments were infested with a parasite, something eerie happened. According to the Jena study, a "significantly stronger decline in the number of bees" occurred among the insects that had been fed a highly concentrated Bt poison feed.

now drawbacks of the study were that levels of the *supposed* toxin are reported to be signifigantly higher (in some cases 10x) than the actual levels although evidence suggests the soil where these GM crops are grown reach higher levels of toxicity with subsequent years of planting until a pleatau/saturation in toxicity is reached a few years later

HOWEVER in response to the above studied toxin

Prof. Joe Cummins reviews the impacts of Bt toxins and Bt crops and points to a fundamental flaw in their regulatory assessments - toxicity testing based, not on the toxins in Bt crops themselves, but on surrogate toxins. There is, furthermore, evidence that some Bt toxins are toxic to mammals.

But, in every case, the Bt crops released in North America have been evaluated based on the toxicity to mammals and to the environment of the natural toxins, not the product of the synthetic altered genes in the GM crops.

these last 2 quotes thanks to this

www.organicconsumers.org...


hmmm interesting....yes

Kaatz would have preferred to continue studying the phenomenon but lacked the necessary funding. "Those who have the money are not interested in this sort of research," says the professor, "and those who are interested don't have the money."

www.truthout.org...


it could be multiple factors with the leading one being the toxicity of the GM modified crops/seeds etc (which are not test for by monsanto) and thus *not the same toxins when duplicated in experiments* and the bee's intenstinal linings become so weakf from the GM modified BT corn toxins that the viruses and such that they would normally fight off infect them and the resulting infection is left in high concentrations in the nectar left behind as well as the hives themselves. thus they flee the hives BINGO

and maybe the concentration of the parastits and mites are higher in the areas where the CCD is located? on account of these "little critters" taking advantage of the weakened immune sytems as well as maybe the amount of gm crops are scattered about on a smaller scale because there are two groups of crops that are both

inflicted corn and cotton and this inculdes the bt (insect resitant) as well as some that are "stacked" insect resistant as well as herbicide resistant

it will be interesting to see if in the quick experiment where some bee keeper apparently took his "empty boxes" to FTSI in mulberry florida, possibly away from the contaminated GM food source, used either enough radiation to kill any toxins in the hive as well. or if the amount of toxins in the hive is enough to slowly weaken the intestinal lining of the newly places austrail bee's in the old boxes and thus become magnets for diseases and pathogens which scare other predators from the hives before irradiation, and even if this is not the case , gm is not off the hook because the tainted (GM?) food source may be cut off from the new bee's unless the bee keeper brings these bee's back home or they stay with FTSI in FL.

either way this experiment should have been done more slowly and with more controls





[edit on 5-5-2007 by cpdaman]

[edit on 5-5-2007 by cpdaman]

[edit on 5-5-2007 by cpdaman]

Now i know why the bee's are missing; They're outside my house some as big as a pound, buzzing around. I should collect them all and send them to the beehives?

I mean i'm afraid to walk out of my house!!!!!

Now i know why the bee's are missing; They're outside my house some as big as a pound, buzzing around. I should collect them all and send them to the beehives?

I mean i'm afraid to walk out of my house!!!!!

In Michigan, correct me if I am wrong members here at ATS, there is not much cotton grown and probably not too much GM corn. I have seen some fields in past years identified with billboard as GM crops, but I think it is a small overall percentage of the corn crop grown. I think the price point isn't there yet for farmers and they are "leery" of the GM stuff. While the overall theory sounds plausible, I doubt there is enough GM crop out there to do the damage we are seeing. I am guessing that bees don't go too far from their hives to get nectar. Again my knowledge of bees is mainly limited to me swatting them and getting stung by them.

That being said, it wouldn't suprise me that man, in trying to create a bug proof crop, managed to kill off the bees that do mankind such a benefit. We do have a history of being rather short-sighted when it comes to things like this.

i understand in france they monsanto won't tell the DOA where they are doing there testing on crops. that's right they wont tell them. and they got away with it, just like they might do here.

monsanto said we are not making it public knowledge where are test fields will be, because protestors will go there and ruin the fields. wonder why

Hi, just heard from Roger Lacey, a top UK bee-keeper. Here are a few things he had to say and some interesting links for us:

The British Beekeepers website is www.bbka.org.uk and there are various links from that site. You can get a very interesting regular and free newsletter by subscribing to www.beedata.com There has been a study in Germany regarding mobile telephone signals and bees. If you put mobiles and bees into Google you get some interesting results including an article in the Independent newspaper.
In the West Country in the UK we have had resistant varroa mites for some
time and our unofficial view here is that the colony collapses we read about
is because other parts of the country now have chemical resistant varroa as
well. In Devon most of the bees came through the winter without loss and are now building up strongly. Any varroa seen during the honey collecting season are treated with a sprinkle of icing sugar and then fall through the wire mesh on the hive floor as the bees preen themselves. In the Winter we treat with Apiguard gel. I collected two swarms last week which is probably one month earlier than usual.
I went to Trinidad earlier this year and came face to face with africanised
bees. That is a different story!
The official government website here is www.csl.gov.uk This has the latest
news on varroa.
We are concerned to read about the giant hornet now in Aquitaine in France. (From China?)
Our village is twinned with Pont l'Eveque. We are visiting there shortly when I hope to meet up with the local beekeeper again to discuss
this. There was a scare last year when the small hive beetle was discovered
in Portugal. This appears to have been contained.
I suspect the problems in America are because of the chemicals they use
(many of which are banned here) and the huge distances the bees are transported in order to pollinate the almond crops.
I read the American Beekeeping magazine and a website mentioned there -
www.randyoliver.com is interesting.

I will have a search through some of his links to see what I can find.

I still have a "thriving hive" in my roof by the way.

Originally posted by greatlakes
Wanted to post this for all that are interested:

On Coast to Coast TONIGHT (C2C) Saturday:
Richard C. Hoagland -Hyperdimensional Bees- www.enterprisemission.com...

Art Bell will be joined by Richard C. Hoagland, who'll discuss solar system changes, weird sun activity, and the disappearing bee problem.

Starts I think at 11pm PST with Art Bell Hosting!
Should be interesting to hear his view on the bee problem. You can listen for free BTW to C2C by linking to a streaming version of the show....


[edit on 12-5-2007 by greatlakes]

monsanto is killing the bee's

the bt toxins reproduce and produce hybrid toxins *which have not been tested for* and kill bee's that feed on this pollen, they get there intestine's torn up and they are open for every infection known to bee's. they abandon the pollen and nectar in the hive, and hopefully they fly and find organic bee farms (which hello no cases of CCD are occuring)

next up: the economy between a rock and a hard place and why barnacke will opt for hyperinflation instead of deflation and the middle class gets ko'd

[edit on 12-5-2007 by cpdaman]

i guess everyone forgot about the bee's but i spend about 2 weeks on this thing 3 months ago and damn i deserve a pat on the back

it was MONSANTO

read my work 7 posts ago to get the full picture (especially up to the last external quote i linked)

the smoking gun is the knowledge that monsanto study's and other study's determing the toxicity of the bT toxins were based on natural toxins, not the hybrid genetically altered toxins, which in limited studies point to the fact it can tear up the lining of a bee's intestine and kill it's immune system thanks to the exponetnailly higher increase in toxicity. and now we have dead bee's with up to 6 infections within them. gee what a mystery. people are confused, this matches nothing in the literature of bee history.
well BT toxins are new and they are very very deadly to bee's apparently.



[edit on 10-7-2007 by cpdaman]