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Forgive the Government

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posted on Apr, 22 2007 @ 12:08 PM
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FORGIVE THE GOVERNMENT!?

for treating us like guinie pigs, taking away our freedoms, being lieniant on criminals, and for doing a bad job?

i dont know what your smoking, but i want some!



posted on Apr, 22 2007 @ 02:21 PM
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I understand where you are coming from, however, I don't think you've completely thought your actions through.

I can understand forgiving a child that makes a mistake. I can understand forgiving someone posting here on ATS, through anger, calling me unrepeatable names. I can understand forgiving a dog for peeing on the floor.

I cannot forgive the Federal Government for making the exact same "mistake" over and over and over for the past 150 years. There have been too many lives taken. There have been too many freedoms infringed upon. I can go on and on about the "ill doings" of our Government, and not once has the Governmental body stopped, stood up and said:

"We, the Government of the United States of America, hereby do declare that wrong doings have been done to the American people. We, the Government of the United States of America, hereby relinquish ourselves to the people that actually embolden us to represent them and their best interests. We, the Government of the United States of America, hereby sincerely apologize for all the deaths cause by our doings, to create a better financial future for ourselves, to create a stronger more centralized Governmental body, and for other things. We, the Government of the United States of America, hereby return the Country that we have stolen from it's rightful owners, back to the rightful owners... The American People. We are sincere in our apology and vow from this day forward never again will the Federal Government body of America be allowed by it's people to over step the boundaries set forth by the Constitution of the United States of America."


For the day they do, I would begin to understand forgiving the Government.



posted on Apr, 22 2007 @ 03:33 PM
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Forgiving the government is THE most STUPID thing anyone could do. It will allow them to push forth harder and harder. The government KNOWS what it is doing and WANTS to keep it going. Why? They are owned by the elite and corporations. You can be a Ghandi and run around and let the government shoot you, but remember this ALWAYS:
The British left India because it was no longer important to them, they had Britain to fall back on. The elites in the USA DO NOT have anyplace to fall back on. Also Ghandi FAILED! Look at the wars between Pakistan and India! HE FAILED! HE DIED IN VAIN! The corporations moved RIGHT BACK IN AGAIN and now rule India, Ghandi failed. All those who became martyrs failed in the long run because corporations and the elite are PATIENT PEOPLE! They will just shoot you, let people calm down, then begin again. Blacks protested, but they gained NOTHING in the long run, NOTHING! Martin Luther hardly succeeded in the long run! Black communities are still underfunded and whooped up on by the government whenever it wants to crack some skulls! AND THEN THE BLACK PEOPLE RUN OFF AND JOIN THEIR ARMY! Martin Luther King failed.
None have been able to survive the test of time, the corporations have, they know what to do to make people THINK they have won or gained ground. Meanwhile 30-40 or 50 years down the line it all means SQUAT because your back to square one only WORSE OFF this time.

Go smoke whatever it is you want to smoke and hug the government and forgive them all you want. I will be fighting on the frontlines against them while they slaughter you.



posted on Apr, 22 2007 @ 05:12 PM
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The government and the corporations are made of people. I oppose the system by not buying stuff I don't need, not borrowing money from banks, and so on. We can fight the government but the real cause of what is happening is how people think about life.
If people change their view and stop wanting so much stuff, and realize that a bigger house in a rich and guarded neighbourhood where they don't even know or want to know their nighbours must not be a goal in life, then the world will change
Yes it's good to fight the system, I do not see the fight like something we win, remove the bad guys and replace them, I see it more like an awakening campaing



posted on Apr, 22 2007 @ 07:44 PM
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stompk,

"We, your government representatives working on behalf of Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II, thank you for your concern as we do care about our HUMAN RESOURCES. Now just send us your last year's income (minus what we already stole for income tax) and Her Majesty has already forgiven you."
____________________________________________________

Putting that all aside, very well said and please do not ever go back to feeling the way you used to.

[edit on 22-4-2007 by sweftl337]



posted on Apr, 22 2007 @ 09:04 PM
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Where did you get that quote from? If so I will never even visit the UK unless it is for the most dire reasons. Yeesh. The government in the USA is not even THAT open about how they view people, they just do it behind closed doors.



posted on Apr, 22 2007 @ 10:02 PM
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Forgiveness is a long process. You cant wake up one morning and decide to "forgive"- its not human nature. You need time to heal the wounds before you can forgive honestly from the heart.

I have not had any signs from the government that merits forgiveness, that heals my wounds, therefore, I cant forgive something that is hopeless and getting worse.

I dont know what makes you forgive without getting back some sign that
deserves forgiveness?????

Are you throwing your arms up in the air and say "I give up" "All is forgiven because it is as it is???"

I dont agree with you. Sorry.



posted on Apr, 23 2007 @ 05:28 AM
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Hm.

This is a very good debate, because many cultures of thought clash.

I have a knack for words, semantics, linguistics and stuff, although not on a professional basis, so forgive me for being a nerd :-)

To forgive is not to forget.

We shall never forget that we've been lied to. We shall never forget that there has been murder, war, theft, betrayal and a lot of bad acting. We shall never forget that there have been slaves and rapes. We shall never forget that we've been steering blindly through the galaxy, ignorant of what we are. We shall never forget the mistakes that have been made.

Because we have the gift of understanding (as somone already said) and learning. We grow older, become wiser and stronger because we don't repeat the mistakes we made in the past. We don't forget them.

But we shall forgive. We all depend on forgiveness. Why?

He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone

John 8,7
Once we have understood why we aren't as happy as we would like to or even could be when given the right "circumstances", we will realise that it's totally nonsensical for us to have nuclear bombs and fleets and stealth fighters, to kill each other for food and goods and luxury.

Injustice, war, pollution and diseases will not cease unless individuals depend on it. But so many do. The "System", our nature, nourishes them. Bosses, workers, lawyers, villains, politicians, revolutionaries. You can't just replace them all at once. Luckily, none of them lives forever. All we have to do is wait until they retire and make sure their successors don't repeat the mistakes we've suffered from.

I believe it is thus possible to heal the system without violence, since violence has proven to be a useless utility throughout our history. It creates more of itself if you try to fix it by force. And it's expensive.

Forgiveness is not like righting a wrong. It is not a silent agreement with what the leaders did in the past. And we can only forgive them what they've done to us - we can't forgive them on behalf of those who have suffered and died. What have they done to us, indivudually? Robbed us, enslaved us, brainwashed, sure; we may have suffered a lot from their injustice. But we're still alive and in the position to forgive. Forgiveness is a sign of power, not of weakness.

Forgiving is only the first step, though. After that, we have to make sure the governments don't repeat their mistakes in our names - nonviolently. We DO have non-violent means to make them listen to us. We are the people, we hold the power, and the governments have no choice but to obey and behave so that we can coexist peacefully.



PS: Freedom of speech is the single greatest thing our forefathers have achieved so far, let us use it wisely. So please, don't tell me they are going to shoot people for saying that whatever the question is, love is the answer. No government in the world can afford that anymore. Their trick is to tell you they have the power to... they haven't. They are few, we are many. And never forget that every single soldier and policeman is human also.

[edit on 23-4-2007 by Akareyon]



posted on Apr, 23 2007 @ 07:41 AM
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This is the revolution. The revelation of peace. To forgive is not easy. I continually have to remind myself.
How does one defeat their worst enemy. Don't have an enemy. Ghandi's death was not in vain. The fact that he's being brought up in this post, shows that it was not vanity.
What do we want to hand to our children. A philosophy of love and peace, or hate and anger. We are the government. We are much more effective by setting the example than becoming part of the problem.
This is what the lesson in life is all about. How to take charge of our feelings, thoughts and behaviors. That is the reason for the bible. To use as a guide. The bible is full of examples set through the most difficult of examples..
And even if you don't believe in the bible, or God, or Jesus, and you just believe in yourself, you can see the power in these words. These are for you, and your children. May they live in peace. Un-oppressed. Unbound by the chains of jealousy, greed, envy and anger.



[edit on 23-4-2007 by stompk]



posted on Apr, 23 2007 @ 08:01 AM
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Originally posted by stompk
This is the revolution. The revelation of peace. To forgive is not easy. I continually have to remind myself.
How does one defeat their worst enemy. Don't have an enemy. Ghandi's death was not in vain. The fact that he's being brought up in this post, shows that it was not vanity.
What do we want to hand to our children. A philosophy of love and peace, or hate and anger. We are the government. We are much more effective by setting the example than becoming part of the problem.
This is what the lesson in life is all about. How to take charge of our feelings, thoughts and behaviors. That is the reason for the bible. To use as a guide. The bible is full of examples set through the most difficult of examples..
And even if you don't believe in the bible, or God, or Jesus, and you just believe in yourself, you can see the power in these words. These are for you, and your children. May they live in peace. Un-oppressed. Unbound by the chains of jealousy, greed, envy and anger.
[edit on 23-4-2007 by stompk]


Agreed, provided that we are not too passivist in the face of evil. When Ahriman arrives, he will cash in on all the passivists and use them in all their bliss to further his plans. He must be opposed from every part of our being.



posted on Apr, 23 2007 @ 09:34 AM
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Ghandi did fail, and I cited WHY. As for quoting the bible, go ahead, I do not read the bible nor worship god so frankly I dont give a rats (self censored) about the quote.

To be at peace with the enemy we have now is to get wiped out because they shall strom over you and they have been doing so. You cannot forgive what does not want it, never has, and does not care. They know all to well what they do, because this is the 2nd Vietnam.

Never hug the viper or the rattlesnake, it will only get you bit or killed.

If you want peace, be at peace with yourself, that is far more important that forgiving. If you want peace, be at peace with people who want to see them (the elite) GONE!
The revolution of peace is an old idea folks, you never came up with it. Shoot, Ghandi was one of the first to try it, being Tibetans were the influence and still are an example today though it got them WIPED OUT! They tried to hug the chinese government and the chinese government invaded and launched genocide against them. There is what will happen if you hug this government.

When the tanks roll, the bullets fly, the cannons roar, the jets scream the missiles howl and the army marches against you: what will you do?

Answer that last one above ALL else. If you cannot, then you are a total pacifist if not coward.

What I will do when that happens: tell others to throw down their signs and banners and grab a gun and head for the hills, frontal assault at this point is suicidal so fight them in a gurilla war. Let the 2nd American Revolution begin is what I would tell them.
Some will ask why (I have been asked this in the real world) and I gave a simple responce: I would rather die on my feet than live on my knees. (Japanese saying)
Whereupon I would add the next: I shall not stand by and allow this to come to pass without a fight, I shall not allow them to kill me without at least taking them down WITH me, and I quote from a movie (very true): "If someone tries to kill you, you try and kill them right back!"
The LAST thing this nation needs is people who are scared of fighting and dying. The LAST thing this nation needs (being USA I am talking about here) is people who will try and hold protest signs while they are shot, gassed, sent to concentration camps and run over with tanks. For anyone who thinks the US military will not do this to Americans: Wrong, they have been getting the criminals in the army now so they will be able to pull it off, to boost numbers they will simply hire mercenaries who dont give two hoots about murdering and raping then to top it off they might call in foreign "peacekeeping" forces.



posted on Apr, 23 2007 @ 12:16 PM
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He is right send the gov lots and lots of love.....they'll hate you for it..



posted on Apr, 23 2007 @ 12:57 PM
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Originally posted by stompk
For a while I've had the feeling that there is no way out. The government has enslaved us, and the only freedom is through the most aggressive of ways. Well, I change my mind. The way to pure peace is forgiveness.
I personally reliquish all anger and ill feelings toward the Government, and forgive them. Power is now out of my hands. Thank you. Now, we can work together. We are smart enough to handle the truth. We want to be led through integrity and honesty. We want the right to live happily and prosper from the freedom that the earth supplies. We want the right to worship, or not, whomever we choose. And most of all, we want the right to matter, to have an ear in important matters, and to exist as one.
Peace be with you.

[edit on 21-4-2007 by stompk]


Seeing all these events that happened 9-11, Iraq, since Bush became President. If these events were all staged by the Government which lead to the Iraq war. And now the connection with NAU. There maybe a very good possibility that all of this is connected together to pave the way for Martial law. With that being caused by Bush... I know in the Bible it says to forgive.. but how can anyone forgive something so horrible this mass murder of the American people and other foriegn civilians that lost their lives that our government planned and carried out.

Stompk your very brave and I commend you but what you ask I don't think I can do. Does God expect us to forgive such a horrible crime brought against us? I was brought up in a Baptist church. And never I seen or heard anything as serious as this. This has to be the worst time ever for Americans. Forgiveness is good after you get those sorry polititions out of office and in jail where they belong.

I say impeach them all.



posted on Apr, 23 2007 @ 03:12 PM
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Vekar:

You say Ghandi failed, because India and Pakistan fought each other.

I say it was The Pakistanis and the Hindus themselves that failed because they took the same attitude as yourself and some others in this thread:

"Don't forgive, think how we have been wronged, fight the 'enemy' etc. etc."

Take a good look at how things are today, with the old formula of: kill first or be killed, and there is'nt enough to go round, and all that jazz.

Obviously, it has'nt changed the world for the better so it's not working. And if something is'nt working then change it.

And as for Martin Luther, how many black people have to sit at the back of the bus now?



posted on Apr, 23 2007 @ 07:38 PM
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To forgive is not to give up.

It is a way to communicate how we wish to be treated. Some of you here on ATS fear the worst from their government, some prepare for "Day X" when "tshtf". Some believe, intuitively, that a noose is tighteing our neck, that there may be an all-out battle of good vs. evil one day and that we will know when the time to fight and to shed blood comes.

The time to fight is now, the time to shed blood is over. We have every god-given, natural law to voice our opinion about how the planet is meant to look like. We have ways of making "them" listen to us. We know how to place orders.

Oh, and the big, evil corporations and their lobbies... is it their fault that we haven't managed to make clear that they depend on us, not the other way round? Who is to blame that we've had ourselfes torn apart by our small ideolocal, political and religious differences, making it easy to divide us into artificial "needs" and "dependencies"? We go and tell them what we really want and need, it's so easy!

We shouldn't be using the internet to spread even more fear, mistrust and hatred, but to get together and find out what our consensus is. Where do you want to go tomorrow?



posted on Apr, 23 2007 @ 07:40 PM
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Ghandi failed, his legacy died in India by the infighting. Ghandi failed, the government abuses its people. Read Aruruhndi Roay's (not sure of the spelling) works and you will find out just how badly Ghandi failed the test of time. He changed things for a fleeting moment but in the long run things have not changed at all, only gotten worse.
Martin Luther failed, blacks no longer sit at the back of the bus, yet they are downtrodden to this very day. His movement failed the test of time, infighting is rampant, just look at crime in black neighborhoods. He failed the test of time, he only changed things for a fleeting moment.

YOU J1 are talking about nothing but SHORT TERM and you SHALL FAIL WITHOUT QUESTION by doing so. People like me are concerned with the LONG TERM not the SHORT TERM. People like ME want to make sure THIS NEVER HAPPENS AGAIN. Your own people failed and things are happening again, you too failed then, but more so then my philosophy. When you have a government that MURDERS and RAPES people you can go ahead and hold a sign. I SHALL NEVER HOLD A SIGN! I will take up arms against such people and FIGHT THEM TILL THE END! YOU J1 are a tiny, itsy bitsy minority in the USA, the greatest WHOLE of the USA and WORLD would rather FIGHT than to forgive.
Do what you will, hold signs while the tanks run you over and mercenaries shoot and rape you. I will be fighting them off with an M16 and go down fighting rather than to say: "You do not know what you do (they do know) so I must forgive you." I will fight, and you also never answered the QUESTION I ASKED! What will YOU DO when the tanks roll? Hmmm? Answer! Lets see what you will do, you might find you lean more towards my own ideals more so than you would like to admit!



posted on Apr, 23 2007 @ 09:59 PM
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What is your image of the world? Is such a world an improvement over the present one? Are the elites just doing what they believe is right? Why do people do what they do?

Forgiving or not forgiving 'the government' doesn't make sense. The government is composed of people. Why does evil occur? How can we best make real, permanent change?

I think there is much more to be gained by trying to build a better world than to destroy the present one. Are all efforts at changing the system, only small blips on the gargantuam proesses of time? Are the major outcomes of the world predestined, or can we truly make a difference?

I don't believe any of these answers are easy to answer. Do elites want to further enslave the masses, and if so why?

In this broad context, we need to ask what forgiveness is about. I believe it is about allowing an offender to make amends for past mistakes, and carry on to work with us in building a better world. When does forgiveness assist in this? When does foriveness hurt this?



posted on Apr, 23 2007 @ 11:34 PM
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If they wanted to build a better world they would have started to do so after Vietnam. Instead they pushed fear and power mongering to a new high. Forgiving them will do squat, asking them to join you in making a better world is the same as inviting a copperhead with a bad attitude and a mean streak on top to sleep in your bed. It will buy its time and then strike when it is ready to make sure you die. Once again I am waiting on the "what will you do when..." responses.



posted on Apr, 24 2007 @ 12:19 AM
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This is an excellent thread. I went through a time when I was in trouble with the law and although I wanted to fulfill my obligations to the state and others, the agents of the state seemed so arrogant and unsympathetic that I seriously developed plans of doing something similar to the VA massacre, except in a county building. My victims would have been a few probation officers and possibly some hostages leading to a standoff where I am sure a few people including myself would have taken their last stand. I just needed time to accomplish everything they asked of me, but they seemed to not care that I was sincerely doing my best with a lot of things going on in my life.

The one thing that probably saved some peoples lives is my belief in forgiveness and the empathy I developed towards them as human beings. A friend of mine became a member of the Florida Highway Patrol and knowing his character as a friend reinforced the fact that government agents are sinners just as you and I. Without God and forgiveness, there would have been a few people dead and a lot of peoples lives destroyed in the process.

I have never told anyone this before of what my plans were in 2001, but I think it is important for people to understand that there is an agenda working in the world that is above our understandings. I fully believe we are living in the last days and in order to survive we must embrace the truth of God and earnestly find salvation not only for ourselves but for others. I know that the problems of the world, including the leadership of our governments will get worse, and that we must find forgiveness within us, or we will be destroyed one way or the other.

The Kingdom of Heaven lies within you, and so does the Battle of Armageddon. I pray that we are all kept from the evil one, but I know that this is not possible, so God's will be done.



posted on Apr, 24 2007 @ 06:39 AM
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What will I do when they roll out the tanks? Call on God to fight my battle for me. I can't be defeated, even in death, because I am the example. I am a witness. I am the new way. I am.
So are you. Power will come in numbers. A peaceful protest is more powerful than one thinks.
I am a warrior of peace. I have the highest possible commander, and I put my life in His hands.
I was in Desert Storm. I've been stabbed, shot, you name it. I've won almost every battle in my life. But I realize this isn't a fight I can win with the previous ways. Plus, about a year ago, my life changed. God came to me, and said, you are responsible, here is your armor.
My armor is my faith, my sword is truth. My strategy is peace. My mission, to bring the world together, to unite us all under one God.

Remember the guy in China that stood in front of his tank. He gave his life, and China changed it's ways after that. No one knows his name, but he is my hero.
I'm not saying I want to die. I want to live. I want a better life for my children. Should I sit around and wait for someone to change things.
No, it's up to me.



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