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Originally posted by JBenoit
Where did god come from you all might be asking. Well lets see, back when man did not have the resources we have now or the knowledge we have now they were looking for something to explain why things happen. Thus god was made up in our minds to help explain these occurances and as we got smarter we started to prove that these other things caused these occurances and not god yet because or parents told us about god, god keeps getting passed down to each generation thus keeping the belief alive that whatever we cannot explain right now that it must be an act of god. As time goes on and we become more knowledgable more people wil lose faith until god is no longer believed in and these discussions will not be necessary.
Originally posted by WeBDeviL
Ah..now that New Year's is over..and I am back to fight again
Now, I was pondering this when I logged off yesterday night. Your arguement, lilblam, highly depends on the laws of the physical realm. But! Here's the catch. God is not OF the physical realm. The laws of physics and logic do not apply to him, as he is the ultimate, the alpha and omega. You argued that mathematical laws say that nothing cannot create something. Sure, that is true for the physical world and humans, as we are all created by another. Oh, where did the first humans come from, if nothing cannot create something? They evolved you might argue, sure, they did. But what about the beings they evolved from? And the beings that evolved from them..it keeps going back, until there is but a single organism..but what created the organism? If nothing cannot create something, where did it come from? Something put it there.
What I am getting at is that you are trying to disprove a non-physical being with physical laws, it cannot be done.
"Nothing cannot create something"
Again, God is ultimate infinity. We CANNOT comprehend that, and cannot explain it, either. Stop trying to disprove God with physical laws, when he is not physical!
"That is logically refutable to be FALSE and silly and a great"
AGAIN! You rely on the physical laws and rules! God IS NOT OF THE PHYSICAL REALM, GET OVER IT! Logic to you might not apply to him, understand?
Free will: God gave us Free will to do what we please. Sure, if we ask for help, he may interfer. This is what prayers do. If you don't ask for help, he won't help. God HAS a plan. Ask and you will receive.
"Jesus walked on water"
"Jesus brought life to a man who was dead"
^ That is the ultimate proof, how is there no God if this man did this? Surely no mere human can, can you?
Wow, lilblam, I sense some problems in your life, do I not? Many of these posts seem very very shallow, indeed. Your post about "Not feeling with your heart, buddy" Yeah, I did not mean that literally, you seem to be a very shallow and literal person, a person who "doesn't believe until they see" That is what I am getting here..
Like Shoktek said, you are assuming that God requires OUR mathematically correct laws, do you not?
Another reason that I believe you seem rather literal and shallow..
You explain "love" and "hate" with 'chemical reactions' that are triggered within the body. That is how you explain that away. Well, explain why we feel beauty in some certain things, and not others, all humans are different. If we were mere 'animals' like all the rest, we wouldn't all have individual needs and wants. All snakes are just that snakes. All dogs are just that - dogs. You feed a dog with dog food, it is going to eat it. They have primal senses, we are beyond that. We sense and know some things that cannot be explained..beauty, love, hatred, rage, fighting for what you believe in..on top of that..
[Edited on 1-1-2004 by WeBDeviL]
Originally posted by lilblam
Why is it that when I say God doesn't exist, people automatically assume that I accept the "everything happened by accident and all things in the universe just accidentally, randomly, came into place" THEORY! I DO NOT! This is NOT what I know, it's also not what I say. Pleeeease don't assume that! Just because you may know of 2 theories, doesn't mean it has to be either one or the other. It could be neither! God didn't create the universe, and the universe also didn't accidentally come into being. Maybe I should leave it like this and see if (hypothetically) someone can come up with a way the universe can exist if it's not an accident, and it wasn't purposely created by some God.
Originally posted by lilblam
Infinity is a concept, a theory. It is not "achieved" or "reached and surpassed" simply because it doesn't exist as a number. It just means "no end". So, here's my logical argument for why time doesn't exist, and therefore there is no creator God. First let's look at what our perception of time at the moment is, and then I'll show you why it's not real. Bare with me, this should be enlightening! Please read this without bias/pre-conceptions/belief interfering, be objective
What we know of time: Past/Present/Future. Yet we know the future doesn't exist YET, not until it comes into the present. The past also doesn't exist, it is only a memory. If you wipe out the memory, the past ceases to exist entirely. So the only thing that TRULY exists SHOULD be the present! Well, things actually jump from the nonexistant future, into the nonexistant past, and NEVER touch the present. You can zoom in as much as you want into this "present" but even if you zoom in for infinity, you'll always see the future jumping into the past, there is no moment called "present" that exists. What we think is "the present" is only the IMMEDIATE past, the part that JUST NOW skipped from future into the past. Ok so that means nothing exists, well it doesn't if you think of linear time as we do.
Also, because you can't have something out of NOTHING, there was ALWAYS something. That means where we are now is supposedly in the middle of infinity of time, that goes infinitely into the past and into the future. There is no end to everything, as there was no beginning. There's only ONE problem with that. If that is true, then God can NEVER create anything even if he does exist. Why? Because he'd first have to wait for infinity of TIME before he could create something. Remember, we have infinity of time behind us in our past. But you CANNOT surpass infinity and THEN do something. Infinity is theoretical, it is NEVER reached. It just means NEVER ENDS. That means, since we are STILL part of that same infinity, God would STILL BE WAITING to create ANYTHING because we still haven't surpassed infinity, we're only in the middle somewhere. God would be waiting for exactly infinity of time, before creating ANYTHING. That means he'd never create anything. Bam! God strikes out! Ask me for any clarifications if need be.
This also means that time isn't real, because before anyone created anything they'd have to wait infinity of time to do so. You can't skip ahead, because time is linear. You can only go forward/backward. You can't SKIP sections. I'm talking about all-powerful beings also. If you CAN skip sections, that means tiem never existed in the first place and it's an illusion imposed on humans. Ok this is long enough. Let me know what you think.
edit: Even if you can skip sections of time, you still can't reach infinity. You can't skip infinity. It's not a numerical amount. You can wait only FINITE amount of time.
You may argue that because God isn't human, he is not bound by our limitations. What I would say is, if God can SKIP infinity, that means it was NEVER infinity, but was in fact, FINITE! But we know for FACT that everything DOES exist for infinity, and God in religion should be infinity, no? Because you cannot have something out of nothing, therefore something always was! Hmm I think I'm repeating myself here
[Edited on 5-1-2004 by lilblam]