Proof That God Does Not Exist ! (updated)

So God just IS, which about sums it up for most religious types.

No debate I have seen on ATS has ever managed to convince a believer in God, that he may not exist, in fact I have yet to see a believer even question Gods existence.

Normally, it takes a profound experience to either turn someone toward or away from the bossom of God.

So for those with an open mind:

In all the universe are we the only planet he granted life to, if so do they have their own version of the Bible?

Apart from a few potato chips or pretzels looking like the Virgin Mary, he seems to be running a little short on miracles, was he just going through a phase when he was dishing them out a couple of thousand years ago?

As a believer in Evolution and things as yet unfound, I have no reason to question why I am here.

For what reason did God create you?

Originally posted by Koka
So God just IS, which about sums it up for most religious types.

No debate I have seen on ATS has ever managed to convince a believer in God, that he may not exist, in fact I have yet to see a believer even question Gods existence.

Normally, it takes a profound experience to either turn someone toward or away from the bossom of God.

So for those with an open mind:

In all the universe are we the only planet he granted life to, if so do they have their own version of the Bible?

Apart from a few potato chips or pretzels looking like the Virgin Mary, he seems to be running a little short on miracles, was he just going through a phase when he was dishing them out a couple of thousand years ago?

As a believer in Evolution and things as yet unfound, I have no reason to question why I am here.

For what reason did God create you?

He's not running short on miracles, you just don't go to places where that kind of stuff happens.
I know for a fact that there are people who read this topic, and start to doubt the existance of God because of it, but of course they don't post a message about that.
"hey I was a believer but now I read this topic I think I am living in an illusion, thanks"
It's not that weird.

And yes we are the only planet He made life on.
Of course all "I want to believe in UFO" guys will now reply with some calculation how big the chance is that there is life on one of the other million planets around us. Fact is that there is no life on the planets we can see, and that we can see a lot planets allready.
So to answer the question, no He did not make multiple planets to live on, bibles for aliens or similar things.
It's just us.

Originally posted by Jakko
Time does not exist?
Time does exist, the only problem is that we are in time, and that God is not in time.

Oh that wouldn't be a problem. The thing you're missing is, if God is not in time, then everything that exists has always existed and will always exist for eternity in a simultaneous NOW. This condition is a requirement when time doesn't exist. Even for God. Therefore, if God is out of time, he couldn't possibly CREATE anything, because CREATION is only a concept that exists when TIME exists, but when TIME is absent, creation is absent also - only existance is.

No matter how hard you try to get your little "infinite mind" around concepts like infinity and the defenition of time, you will not succeed.

You seem to be very convinced as to what I can and cannot grasp. You are setting limits where there are none. Not only can I grasp it, but I can experience it, and far more. You limit yourself by saying this, but you do not limit me

To me this is knowledge.

This is an assumption. You tell me that I cannot understand something, just because YOU can't understand it. You ASSUME that someone cannot understand more than you. If assumption=knowledge for you, then so be it.

Knowing that some things can not be fully grasped by a human mind, not because we are not intelligent enough, but because fully understanding such concepts requires us to have seen/experienced certain things that humans have never experiened or seen.

Right, but we can understand them ENOUGH to know what is possible and what isn't, because ideas of GOD and CREATION all came from human minds, not universal knowledge. When time doesn't exist, neither does creation. That's very simple to understand if you open your mind, which you decided to close tightly shut because you LIMIT yourself by saying "I can't understand this, and neither can anyone else".

You seem so desperate to find answers to these unanswerable questions that you hysterically start creating your own reality in the process, thinking that you're smart and "more limitless" over the rest of us.

FALSE. All equally limitless, as one thing without a limit equals another thing without a limit. However, some individuals have more ability to process information and connect the dots than others. Some people ARE smarter than others
And another note, I'm not CREATING a false reality for myself, I am only examining what IS and understanding what IS. It's religions that create a false reality because they want you to believe, whereas I seek to KNOW. Big difference. Belief is to pretend to know, it has nothing to do with reality. Therefore, when I discover truths, they are true to objective reality, but when a believer decides to believe, he is simply wishfully thinking and HOPES that his belief is true, which is very rarely true.

You seem to assume certain things that are not result of knowledge but of your own fantasy.

What things might those be? All I've told you is result of concrete knowledge on my part, result of thinking and figuring things out, result of connecting the dots of objective reality. I never assume, only seek to know.

Reality is just too complex for that.

You keep telling yourself that. It is SO complex, you can't even TRY to begin to figure it out. Just sit there and pray instead.

Could you maybe explain why time would not exist?

Because if it exists, nothing else can exist. Read my thread regarding TIME.

Cause I really wonder how you got to that stage.

Read my thread regarding time then.

Originally posted by Jakko
He's not running short on miracles, you just don't go to places where that kind of stuff happens.

The only proof you have of miracles is your own belief, and your belief can never be questioned, because it has to be blind and unquestioning.

Why would God shape a pretzel, or any other food product, like the Virgin Mary?

What exactly is God trying to tell you?

Where exactly are these miracles?

I bet they only happen to believers..!!

Originally posted by Jakko

1. You do not know what infinite is. You may know that it's something that has no limits/no end but you do not fully understand what that word means.

Yes I can, it means never ends. That's the full, COMPLETE, ENTIRE understanding of infinity. Infinite means no bounds, no beginning or end, no CREATION or DESTRUCTION, it just means BEING without limitation. I understand EXACTLY what it means, despite your assurance that I don't - and I've just told you what it means.

Claiming that you do is not only arrogant, but it is also blocking your thoughts from actually ending up somewhere interesting.

Don't need to claim, I just explained it to you, now you can claim you do too! It's rather simple

It's like you saying, you don't know what 2+2 means, and you cannot claim that you do, or you will be arrogant. I explain it to you, but then you continue to say but you do NOT understand it, even after I gave you a precise definition. You're ignoring what I said then?

This exactly what I mean when I say that sometimes realizing you can't grasp something will actually lead to more knowledge, but you are not in this stage yet.

I don't need to SEE infinity in order to understand what it is. You're confusing experience and knowledge. I don't need to be aware of every part of infinity to know what infinity is as a concept. Infinity is used mathematically all the time, without requiring the mathematician to BE infinite.

The only way for God to see and hear all, is by being all.

Another hysterical mind-jump, performed by someone unable to fully realize what he is talking about.

And that's not a bad thing, cause no human being can understand how God can hear and see us, while not being part of time. Not understanding this is not a bad thing, because we are not yet in a stage where we can understand it.

Maybe not you, but some of us can, and do understand it. Those who seek supreme knowledge, receive it, and understand it. Those who sit there screaming "We can never understand this as humans" NEVER understand anything! Do you see how you limit yourself just by NOT trying and tell yourself that it's way above and beyond what you can understand? You impose your own limits where there ARE no limits.

People who still attempt to try to understand it all like yourself end up in discussions that make no sense whatsoever.

Make no sense to those who chose ignorance, and therefore do not understand what those people are saying, as those people went so far ahead in KNOWLEDGE. You wouldn't understand a word Einstein says also, regarding his work. You do not seek knowledge, you seek to tell everyone else what they can and cannot possibly understand. Well you just keep telling yourself that. Set limits, where there are none.

People do not like discussing with you (maybe you've allready noticed ;+)

False, they love discussing with me. If they did not, they wouldn't discuss. It's that simple! By discussing, you make the CHOICE to read what I wrote and reply to it. If you dislike it, why do it?

This is not because you are unkind or disrespectfull because you're not. This is also not because you are dumb, because you are probably not dumb at all.
It's the quick assuming when we're talking about the most complex things that annoys others.

But I'm not making quick assumptions. Please tell me where those assumptions lie and I'll tell you why I said it and what is the logic behind it, in DETAIL if you like. I only say what I have absolute assurance of, in terms of KNOWLEDGE of the thing. Let's not argue back and forth, but instead DISCUSS. If you have specific problems with anything I said, please bring it up and I'll tell you precisely WHY I said it, instead of just screaming "You're wrong" "No, you're wrong". This is playing ping pong with words, and won't get us anywhere!

Your opinions, ideas, and theories are result of what you have seen and experienced in your (short) life.

Only the last few months of it too! Most of my life I had no interest in any of this.

Yet you talk as if you have seen it all, and as if you are the one human being that does understand things that "we normal people" don't.

Wrong, I am the one who understand what others choose to ignore and not even TRY to seek the understanding of. There are others who try to understand what I know, succeed, and understand far more than I do. It is rather simple: SEEK to know and you shall know. If you sit there saying you can't know this, then of course you won't! Knowledge doesn't drop from the sky. Only those who seek knowledge/truth can find it, and WILL find it.

How can I say this any simpler? I CHOSE to figure things out, and I have, at least in PART. That little tiny fraction of infinite knowledge that I do possess, is because I put in the effort and the time to figure it out, by staying objective and nonanticipatory.

This is of course ape#.

And why is this ape#? I'd love for you to back up your statements with something other than "You can't know this because I don't know it". This is just a big assumption, and doesn't hold any water!

You do not know it all, and you never will.

I do not know it all, but I will, and so will you. You impose limit on yourself by saying this, but not on me or anyone else who wishes to know it all. Until you snap out of this "self-imposed limitation" mode, you shall never know anything beyond what the authorities allow you to know. In fact, most of what you think you know will be lies, because you won't understand it nor will you SEEK to understand it, since you will keep telling yourself that you can never understand these things anyway, so might as well just believe. When you believe, you live a lie.

Your desire to know it all is too strong for you to gain the knowledge that some things are not for humans to understand, so your version of truth will probably be a very interesting -but not valid- one.

And you are the one who knows what is for humans to know and what isn't? 100 years ago it wasn't for humans to fly yet. 200 years ago it wasn't for humans to know about atoms and molecules. 600 years ago it wasn't for humans to know that the Earth is ROUND.

And you are going to tell me what I can, and cannot know? You're basing this assumption on what, your own knowledge? Good luck with that.

Could you maybe, next time you repeat your "wisdom" also explain how you got to all those quick assumptions?

No assumptions, only knowledge. Ask away.

Originally posted by Jakko
A little experiment.

What if you could create a computerprogram that has "objects" in it that think like humans.
Objects that are as complex as humans with an AI and thinking that's just as complex as humans.
Now you would also program the world around them, everything they see hear and feel would be part of your program. The interval at which a new "frame" is made for the entire world would be set to 0.1 second.

The "humans" in your program would live and die in this timeframe of a new "moment" every 0.1 second.
Not only would they not even notice their world is "advancing" pretty slowly, they would not even be able to ever find out about it without a reference to "an outside clock".
Because that reference would not exist, they would wonder how it all works, where they are coming from and what's happening.
The creator of this program (you) would be able to pause the program, without the objects in it ever noticing the world in which they live is paused. The creator of this program would be able to see and hear everything at all times, but He would not be part of his creation once.
He would see these "objects" trying to get their mind around concepts like infinity and time, and he would have a good laugh noticing the talk about the creator being everything in their world because the creator can see everything as well.
In the end it does not matter wether he would set the "speed" to 1 frame every 0.1 seconds, or 1 frame every 500 seconds. Nothing would change for the objects living in this world.

Of course this little story is not the exact situation we are in, but I think when I read stuff in the bible like "for God 1 second is like 1000 years and the other way around", a similar situation could be truth.
When you look at it like this, you also realize how pointless it is to try to understand things we can not see or understand without a direct reference to the place where God is.

That little created computer program would be limited, our world is not. Our existance is limited, in an unlimited reality. That computer program would eventually figure this out, as I have figured out that we are nothing but farm animals that are farmed by aliens who feed on us, nothing more. We are food for them like our farms provide food for us. We are in a little box called Earth, in order to grow and multiply and provide food for our masters. This is the biggest kept secret on the planet, and yet I know this. The SIGNS are everywhere, but to those ignorant and blind, they do not exist.

Originally posted by Raye
If there is no God and Atheists firmly believe that why are they always arguing a point that is a clear attempt to steal anothers faith when they have nothing better to sell or anything to gain for that matter. Why not just be silent unless to ponder the fact that maybe it shouldn't all be in our ability to understand of course unless we are a clear cut narcicist and know all. If you are not God and clearly believe as you stated that nothing could create nothing then your good. However, for those of us that have seen things that defy your naturalistic realm, gravity and such...let's just say I'm a little more knowledgeable than you. But you too can have the knowlegde that you so vehemently seek. Your mind is closed because its already made up. If only you search and ask the right questions to the right God the truth will be disclosed to you.

It has. My mind is not closed, it is wide open, but when I LEARN something as the truth, there is no reason I should pretend it's not. I question everything I know every second of my existance, and it reaffirms itself each and every time. My mind is very open

Originally posted by quiksilver
I'm gonna get flamed :s.

God probably doesn't exist, BUT why does it matter if he doesn't exist or not? I feel safer knowing that there is a god and knowing that there is someone there to aid me, so i CHOOSE to believe in god because it makes me FEEL better not because he IS there and powerful and whatever.

Precisely. That's the whole point, to make yourself feel better, you create fantasies and delusions, and ignore objective reality. You live in a subjective world and pretend that you are "special" or "loved" by some creator, because it makes you FEEL BETTER. The whole point is to make yourself feel better.

This divides the universe: Those who live to serve self in ignorance, because they exist to make themselves feel better no matter what, and the truth matters not.

And those who only seek truth, no matter what it is, no matter how subjectively horrible it may seem at first. The truth is of utmost importance to those individuals.

We pick our path and trod.

Originally posted by Seapeople

The same molecules, the same minerals. The same Atoms comprise everything. We are made up of the same elements as everything else on earth. There are molecules in our body that are the exact same as molecules outside of our body...in rocks for instance.

Now, what makes them different than molecules in our body. Why is the "Construction" of molecules in a rock not alive while the "construction" of molecules in our body is alive?

Human definition of "alive" is very limited. Everything is alive, including any and all matter. Just different levels of awareness. Alive is a very VERY limited concept from human standards, because if I use nanotechnology and construct a robot, he would be considered ALIVE by humans. Why? Because I will use molecules and construct little genetically-capable structures that you can call cells, and out of this a self-reproducing etc cybergenetic being. This is because what you call biology is simply high technology, well higher technology than we possess anyway. Once we possess the technology to construct biological entities, our definition of "alive" will drastically change. Consciousness exists in all.

As far as infinity goes. The word was invented by a person. It was invented to describe a concept he could not understand.

It was invented to describe a concept, that he COULD understand. The concept: No limitation, no end, no termination. In order to describe this concept, he invented the word infinity. It's that simple.

Just knowing the word does not indicate a full comprehension of it. For instance. You can know what the word indoctrinate means. Fully understanding that word does not mean you understand the indoctrination.

But by understanding that word as much as I do, is enough to utilize it in speech and writing, and enough to understand it when reading. I don't HAVE to be indoctrinated to understand it, I don't have to know every single little part of indoctrination to know what it means.

I don't have to know every part of infinity to know infinity, because the ONLY way to know every part of infinity is to BE infinity. The thing is, just by saying "no limit" or "all possibilities exist" I express a conceptual understanding of infinity. That is all that's required to talk about what I was talking about, otherwise I wouldn't say it.

I only tell you what I KNOW, not what I assume.

Originally posted by lilblam

Originally posted by Seapeople

The same molecules, the same minerals. The same Atoms comprise everything. We are made up of the same elements as everything else on earth. There are molecules in our body that are the exact same as molecules outside of our body...in rocks for instance.

Now, what makes them different than molecules in our body. Why is the "Construction" of molecules in a rock not alive while the "construction" of molecules in our body is alive?

Human definition of "alive" is very limited. Everything is alive, including any and all matter. Just different levels of awareness. Alive is a very VERY limited concept from human standards, because if I use nanotechnology and construct a robot, he would be considered ALIVE by humans. Why? Because I will use molecules and construct little genetically-capable structures that you can call cells, and out of this a self-reproducing etc cybergenetic being. This is because what you call biology is simply high technology, well higher technology than we possess anyway. Once we possess the technology to construct biological entities, our definition of "alive" will drastically change. Consciousness exists in all.

As far as infinity goes. The word was invented by a person. It was invented to describe a concept he could not understand.

It was invented to describe a concept, that he COULD understand. The concept: No limitation, no end, no termination. In order to describe this concept, he invented the word infinity. It's that simple.

Just knowing the word does not indicate a full comprehension of it. For instance. You can know what the word indoctrinate means. Fully understanding that word does not mean you understand the indoctrination.

But by understanding that word as much as I do, is enough to utilize it in speech and writing, and enough to understand it when reading. I don't HAVE to be indoctrinated to understand it, I don't have to know every single little part of indoctrination to know what it means.

I don't have to know every part of infinity to know infinity, because the ONLY way to know every part of infinity is to BE infinity. The thing is, just by saying "no limit" or "all possibilities exist" I express a conceptual understanding of infinity. That is all that's required to talk about what I was talking about, otherwise I wouldn't say it.

I only tell you what I KNOW, not what I assume.

You do not understand infinity. You lie to yourself if you think you do. Thats interesting.

The claim that everything on earth is alive is a far stretch. So what level of awareness does a rock have?

Don't try to fool people on this board who do not know any better. You are no more intelligent than the next person. You claim that your opinions are fact. When in reality, it is just your own view which may be wrong.

Challenge. Imagine something infinite in your head. The describe it to all of us on the board.

Challenge. Provide scientific evidence that everything is alive that has matter or mass.


No problem with someone as smart as you I am sure!

Originally posted by Jakko

Originally posted by quiksilver
I'm gonna get flamed :s.

God probably doesn't exist, BUT why does it matter if he doesn't exist or not? I feel safer knowing that there is a god and knowing that there is someone there to aid me, so i CHOOSE to believe in god because it makes me FEEL better not because he IS there and powerful and whatever.

Noone gets flamed. ;+)
First of all, God does exist. I don't expect you to trust me on that, but after what I have seen in my life I can't be like "it's fine that you think he does not exist".
Cause it's not fine really.

To an idiot, everything is a miracle. Everything he doesn't understand he explains as "Must be God". Those are words of wisdom my friend.

It would be like "it's fine that you think 1+1=3, I respect your ignorance".

That would be true if you ASSUME that 2 is god. You see 1, then you see another 1, you add them together to get 2. You assume that 2 means GOD.

You see some unexplainable things, and you scream "Must be God. Must be a miracle of God". Like I said, an idiot sees a miracle in EVERYTHING. 200 years ago the 20th century would be a miracle of GOD.

I can say 2+2=11 and I am right! You might think I'm ignorant, but I am absolutely correct, and only if you lack KNOWLEDGE do you not see that 2+2=11!

I don't respect your ignorance, but I respect you and I hope you will somehow find out about God, cause it makes your life have a lot more sense.

Yeah, explain everything you don't understand as a miracle of God, this makes everything you don't understand makes sense in your head. Of course, you still don't get it, but at least now you rationalize it! Who cares if you're right? The best part is: You can BELIEVE you are right. That's right, you only need BELIEF and then you can make sense of everything. See something you don't know? BELIEVE what you want about it, and your belief makes it right.

Miracle is subjective: What is miracle to one person is KNOWN by another. To a 3 yr old, a card trick is MAGIC, it's a miracle! To me, it's just slight of hand. You chose to stay a 3 yr old for your entire life, by not seeking to KNOW, but rather to proclaim things to be "God's work, so I can't ever understand it" and not even TRY.

Those who don't seek, shall not receive. Those who receive without asking, shall be deceived. That's universal truth.

Of course like you said, some choose to believe in God because they want to. That's how it starts in a lot of cases. But at a certain age a lot of christians (including me) come to a point where they start wondering wether what they believe in is real.

Yes their beliefs are now so ingrained in their minds, they start hallucinating and actually SEEING God in everything

I found out it is real, but not on the way I once wanted to find out.

So tell me, what does GOD mean to you? What is GOD? Because if I say that GOD is all that exists, then sure he's real. But you probably have a different definition, and think THAT is real. Enlighten me, what is your definition of God?

I asked God for hard proof so many times, but it seemed as if my question did not make sense, I was not sure why.
Later on I realized that any "hard proof" God can give in a moment, is weak compared to the way He can show himself through a period of time.(a life for example)
It all has to do with how humans work. If God's existance would be proven through a miracle today, it would make me believe today. But as more time passes, more doubts about the "hard proof" would rise and in the end I will wonder wether it was not just my imagination, asking God for new proof.
The amount of miracles performed by Jesus and by all christians over time was never the main reason people started to believe. Even today miracles happen. Praying is not without effect, and even though in theory, one prayer leading to a miracle would be enough to convince the world of God's existance, the world is not convinced no matter how much proof they get.

Because miracles aren't proof, they just mean there's something you don't understand. To an idiot, EVERYTHING is a miracle. To a wise man, things are food for thought and something to be KNOWN.

That's why superfacial miracles "just to proof Gods existance" almost never happen. Most miracles today have something to do with people being freed from diseases or evil entities.

Not miracle - power of mind is underestimated by humans. If Tylenol cures your headache, is this a miracle? No, because you know that it was the tylenol.

What if I went back in time to 500 years ago and gave someone with a headache TYLENOL and said it was a gift from God to him. He'd worship me afterwards, because he thought I did a MIRACLE!!

Do you now see? Of course this won't make you question your miracles, and will make you believe really really hard (wishful thinking) that it's really God's miracle, not just some phenomena that you simply don't understand. You'd LOVE for everything to be a miracle wouldn't you, as opposed to natural forces playing out?

Well let me tell you: There is no such thing as supernatural or paranormal, but only NATURAL and NORMAL. The only difference is, somethings we do not yet understand. Those who choose the path of ignorance will attribute everything they don't understand to GOD, but those who choose to seek knowledge will try to find out how the universe TICKS, and they shall KNOW the workings of those "miracles" and understand what really happens.

1000 years ago, Lightning was a miracle too.

These miracles serve a purpose other then to prove Gods existance.

These miracles only exist if you want them to. Lightning can be a miracle too and can prove the existance of ZEUS to you!

The best example of this is right on these forums.
If I would tell you what I have seen in my life that made me know for sure God exists, you would say things like:
- cool story, but I wasn't there
- that could have been coincidence
- you probably misunderstood the situation
- you were hallucinating

After a while of me trying to share my story, getting these responses I would start to doubt it myself.
Did I really see what I think I saw? Couldn't it have been coincidence?
And there goes Gods proof, and my faith based on that one moment.
God understands us better then we understand ourselves and he knows what proof you need for a lasting impact, and this is not often proof that lasts just one moment.

Right, you gotta make sure you practice ignorance your ENTIRE life in order to be able to see miracles in EVERYTHING ALL THE TIME, and only then can you not doubt God' existance. Someone else will try to explain how these things work to you because they KNOW how they work, but you ignore them and say "No idiot, they are miracles! From God to me!!!".

Doubt leads to questions. Questions lead to answers. Answers lead to awareness and knowledge and realisation of reality. If thoust do not question, thoust shall not know.

Faceless, that is too funny. Yeah, I bet you are reeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaal smart... Ha Ha....


Koka, Miracles happen everyday.. If you are not smart enough to see that then open up your shut eyes.....

[Edited on 26-4-2004 by Enlightened]

Originally posted by Seapeople

You do not understand infinity. You lie to yourself if you think you do. Thats interesting.

Look it up in the dictionary.

The claim that everything on earth is alive is a far stretch. So what level of awareness does a rock have?

The first one.

Don't try to fool people on this board who do not know any better. You are no more intelligent than the next person. You claim that your opinions are fact. When in reality, it is just your own view which may be wrong.

Challenge. Imagine something infinite in your head. The describe it to all of us on the board.

Already answered this about 100 times. Refer to previous posts. If you choose to skip over my answers, that's your choice.

Challenge. Provide scientific evidence that everything is alive that has matter or mass.

Expand definition of "alive". It's not alive by human standards, because they limit the definition for what IS alive and what is not. Consciousness is not measured by physical means, and earth scientists have been programmed to pretend nothing exists unless it can be measured.

This programming is why humans are so controlled - they allow themselves to be manipulated because they fall for belief.

No problem with someone as smart as you I am sure!

You ask for impossible things, there is no scientific evidence for the fact that a rock is alive, because the definition of "alive" DISCLUDES a rock.

I do not mean ALIVE as in biological entity. A cybergenetic entity comprised of nano-particles that simulates your idea of BIOLOGY but is not really the same thing is just as CONSCIOUS and AWARE as any "biological entity" may ever be, and more. Your human definition of alive is extremely narrow, and is that way on purpose.

Originally posted by Enlightened
Faceless, that is too funny. Yeah, I bet you are reeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaal smart... Ha Ha....

Koka, Miracles happen everyday.. If you are not smart enough to see that then open up your shut eyes.....

[Edited on 26-4-2004 by Enlightened]

Ohh lightning just struck. I'm not smart enough to realise it's actually a miracle from God I guess, I should probably believe that it is, to experience God and all. It's a miracle!!

All people believe in GOD.... They just have had some emotional trauma which has caused them to question what they can not deny in their soul actually exsists. It is certainly too obvious. Paul states it in Romans Ch.1. All people are without excuse to admit that God exsists. I seriously doubt that any of us on this board are more intellectual than Paul was and he wrote most of the new test. If God is good enough for him to believe in then count me in too.....

Originally posted by Enlightened
All people believe in GOD.... They just have had some emotional trauma which has caused them to question what they can not deny in their soul actually exsists. It is certainly too obvious. Paul states it in Romans Ch.1. All people are without excuse to admit that God exsists. I seriously doubt that any of us on this board are more intellectual than Paul was and he wrote most of the new test. If God is good enough for him to believe in then count me in too.....

I do not believe. If Paul believes, he is as ignorant as any other believer.

Belief: To pretend to know that which you do not know.

It is the root of ignorance.

Originally posted by Enlightened
Faceless, that is too funny. Yeah, I bet you are reeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaal smart... Ha Ha....

[Edited on 26-4-2004 by Enlightened]

lol yeah it gave me a good laugh as well

Idiots see miracles in everything they don't understand?
Lol.

Seriously now, here's what I think so far:

1. You don't know what time or infinity means. ("you are confusing experience with knowledge blabla" will not help you here, the way you are molding these concepts to suit your little "enlightened" theory requires you to come with something better than that.)

2. You don't know who God is. You said you used to believe in God, but clearly not in the right one because your idea of God seems to be some sort of illusion, for us to explain things we don't understand.
The existance of God actually raises a lot of questions, maybe even more then what it answers.

3. Your way of discussing is annoying to read.
THis may have to do with your quick assumptions. You're acting as if you're going too fast for others, when
in fact you're going too fast for yourself.
At some point it stops making sense, and if your "time" topic is somewhat like the stuff that you posted in here I am not even going to bother reading it, cause it's all the same; hysteric assumptions that lead to foolish theories, making a fool out of yourself by acting as if you understand infinity and time as concepts.
"I can't help it if you don't understand" lol!
That's what the town idiot says when everyone tells him he makes no sense.
To me it is clear that some concepts can not be understood by us, my IQ is very high, I am not on drugs, and I am surely not the onlyone who thinks this.

Be proud! You're the first man in history who not only fully realizes the concepts time and infinity, but who can mold those concepts into the shortest theories that explain everything!
Yea right.
So when are the aliens going to come and eat us then?

[Edited on 26-4-2004 by Jakko]

Originally posted by Jakko
Idiots see miracles in everything they don't understand?
Lol.

Seriously now, here's what I think so far:

1. You don't know what time or infinity means. ("you are confusing experience with knowledge blabla" will not help you here, the way you are molding these concepts to suit your little "enlightened" theory requires you to come with something better than that.)

2. You don't know who God is. You said you used to believe in God, but clearly not in the right one because your idea of God seems to be some sort of illusion, for us to explain things we don't understand.
The existance of God actually raises a lot of questions, maybe even more then what it answers.

3. Your way of discussing is annoying to read.
THis may have to do with your quick assumptions. You're acting as if you're going too fast for others, when
in fact you're going too fast for yourself.
At some point it stops making sense, and if your "time" topic is somewhat like the stuff that you posted in here I am not even going to bother reading it, cause it's all the same; hysteric assumptions that lead to foolish theories, making a fool out of yourself by acting as if you understand infinity and time as concepts.
"I can't help it if you don't understand" lol!
That's what the town idiot says when everyone tells him he makes no sense.
To me it is clear that some concepts can not be understood by us, my IQ is very high, I am not on drugs, and I am surely not the onlyone who thinks this.

Be proud! You're the first man in history who not only fully realizes the concepts time and infinity, but who can mold those concepts into the shortest theories that explain everything!
Yea right.
So when are the aliens going to come and eat us then?

[Edited on 26-4-2004 by Jakko]

Annoying? Don't read.

I back up everything I say. Assumptions have no backing. Enough said.

The future is fluid, don't ignore free will (this regarding the last question).

You choose to disregard my explanation, that is your choice. You do not pose an objective and logical argument, all you do is say "You can't know this cuz I said so".
And how do YOU know what I can and cannot understand? Just because you do not understand this, doesn't mean I can't or someone else can't. Remember: The only reason you do not understand is because you don't WANT to understand. Your purpose is to argue for your deeply held beliefs, you are following the entropic principle and amount to nothing more than food for the moon. Don't confuse your self-limitation with the infinite capacity of the mind.

[Edited on 26-4-2004 by lilblam]

[Edited on 26-4-2004 by lilblam]

Lilblam,


I thought we are trying to be nice here. Now, you don't want me to intentionally make you feel stupid do you?? I have barely scrathched the surface here as far as my posts go. I guess I may have to stretch a bit and step into the the fire zone......