Steven M. Greer releases UFO photographs!

Originally posted by rocketsauce

I can understand being frustrated and bummed out about Greer's lack of discretion in certain situations.

But to say, "I hope one day Karma will get greer"? What's that about? He put the whole thing together in the first place. Maybe you should volunteer as the PR person so he doesn't make these dumb mistakes in the future.

This back and forth with Greer's credibility is boring. The photo analysis was cool and helpful, but to continue to repeat the same negative statements over and over .... not sure if that does much.

Hopefully there will be some more credible news in the future to post about.

Well, in my OPINION - I feel this way because I 'feel' that he has hurt the witnesses credibility, and also has hurt UFO research. If the guy has good karma - then he wouldn't have anything to worry about now would he

It just goes to show - deep down, you might not think he is on the up and up either... otherwise you would have shrugged off the karma statement.

Originally posted by kroms33

Originally posted by millerman

kroms acts like Greer owns all the testimony of all the DP witnesses.

This is false - he only owns the specific testimony that he himself transcribed/recorded!

There is absolutely nothing stopping the DP witnesses from speaking for themselves and doing their own thing and making other testimonies outside of TDP.....

And the testimony that he himself transcribed/recorded is from WHO? And WHERE ELSE have the witnesses testified about their experiences besides TDP?

Your statements are self defeating in a logical manner.

You yourself admit that Greer owns the testimony that HE recorded - who else did the witnesses disclose information to for a book or video?
Please - support your argument, it should be interesting to hear/read.
[edit on 4/24/2007 by kroms33]

Well, I have seen video footage of a Clifford Stone interview that had absolutely nothing to do with Greer or TDP, I have also read transcriptions of Clifford Stone interviews on the Web that had absolutely nothing to do with Greer or TDP.

I have seen footage of Eugene Mallove and Tom Bearden in "Free Energy - The Race To Zero Point" that had absolutely nothing to do with Greer or TDP.

Just to give a few examples....

Do some searches in Google Video or Youtube if you don't believe me.

So, again, Greer only owns the testimony that he himself recorded/transcribed. The witnesses are completely free to do other interviews and produce other testimony. And the evidence is all over the internet for you to find.

Originally posted by millerman

Well, I have seen video footage of a Clifford Stone interview that had absolutely nothing to do with Greer or TDP, I have also read transcriptions of Clifford Stone interviews on the Web that had absolutely nothing to do with Greer or TDP.

I have seen footage of Eugene Mallove and Tom Bearden in "Free Energy - The Race To Zero Point" that had absolutely nothing to do with Greer or TDP.

Just to give a few examples....

Do some searches in Google Video or Youtube if you don't believe me.

So, again, Greer only owns the testimony that he himself recorded/transcribed. The witnesses are completely free to do other interviews and produce other testimony. And the evidence is all over the internet for you to find.

SO, what you are saying is that Greer didn't make them sign a waiver or legal document stating their testimonies for his book and vid are his property? He just made a bundle of cash off of other people experiences and you are saying that he didn't take ownership?
Hmmm, so it is true then that Greer "plagiarizes the UFO work of others and sells as his own." Hall of Shame

It is so sad that you had to admit that.

As for proofs of Greer being a fraud: READ.
www.gaiaguys.net...
www.ufowatchdog.com...
www.ufowatchdog.com...
and
DR. GREER CLAIMS RIGHT TO USE "BEST EVIDENCE" DOCUMENT,
BUT UFO RESEARCH COALITION DECLARES HIS ACTION ILLEGAL
Here: www.nhne.com...
He is called "treacherous" and "dishonest," and even states that he has "deplorably bad judgment" - and that is even by one of his supporters.

Wait a bit, I am sure someone will take him to court, and it is going to snowball. But wait, you will blame the shadow government, and the MIC - instead of actually realizing... you've been had.

(edit my long quotes)

[edit on 4/24/2007 by kroms33]

Originally posted by kroms33

Originally posted by rocketsauce

I can understand being frustrated and bummed out about Greer's lack of discretion in certain situations.

But to say, "I hope one day Karma will get greer"? What's that about? He put the whole thing together in the first place. Maybe you should volunteer as the PR person so he doesn't make these dumb mistakes in the future.

This back and forth with Greer's credibility is boring. The photo analysis was cool and helpful, but to continue to repeat the same negative statements over and over .... not sure if that does much.

Hopefully there will be some more credible news in the future to post about.

Well, in my OPINION - I feel this way because I 'feel' that he has hurt the witnesses credibility, and also has hurt UFO research. If the guy has good karma - then he wouldn't have anything to worry about now would he

It just goes to show - deep down, you might not think he is on the up and up either... otherwise you would have shrugged off the karma statement.

Does posivite Karma, "get you"? Sounds negative to me in that context, but who cares stupid semantics.....

Not sure if Greer is on the Up and Up, that's correct, but still interesting to follow and speculate. The Washington Wizards aren't going far in the playoffs, so I need some other hobby to follow!

I think part of Greer's more new age approach is a response to him hitting a brick wall with the initial press conference.

If after having a press conference like that and talking to higher ups in the gov and still no one wants to do anything about it, perhaps a few years down the road you say, f*** it, this is what I really think about the subject regardless of how this hurts my credibility. Like if Al Gore ran for President and didn't try to be what the public polls show and just let it all ride.

So you could certainly argue that his new age antics and sloppyness with certain moth photos have hurt his witnesses credibility, which sucks and is dissappointing. But last time I looked, 2001 was half a decade ago and nothing else really seemed to be happening, so if wants to put all his personal beliefs on the table even at the expense of credibility for him and the witnesses that he coordinated and gathered because it's what he truly believes and he has nothing to lose, so be it.

Traveling around the world gaining witness testimony must cost an insane amount of money. I just spent over $1,000 on a plane ticket to Hawaii. I would have to sell a lot of DVD's to pay just for my one plane ticket, not to mention the DVD's I produced and had printed. Most rock bands make zero money at all. All thier money goes to the marketing/touring/production expenses even after selling 1 million records at $15 a piece. Imagine the other expenses Greer has including supporting a family and trying to make up for the $250,000 he left behind not including inflation. By all means, I hope he continues to make money to support his efforts. And if people pay for it and it's not illegal, so be it. People don't have to give thier testimony to him and i"m sure many haven't for that reason. But those who did, aren't being forced to.

Hopefully there will be some legit new developments we can discuss soon. I think it's cool they discovered a planet like earth recently!

Originally posted by kroms33

SO, what you are saying is that Greer didn't make them sign a waiver or legal document stating their testimonies for his book and vid are his property? He just made a bundle of cash off of other people experiences and you are saying that he didn't take ownership?

Kroms, did you even read what I posted?

I said, the DP witnesses are free to produce whatever testimony they want - articles, books, web pages, videos.

You keep acting as if Greer "owns" the DP witnesses or has some legal hold over them which prevents them from doing their own thing or producing their own testimony - which is absurd.

You are wrong.

Hmmm, so it is true then that Greer "plagiarizes the UFO work of others and sells as his own."
It is so sad that you had to admit that.

I admitted no such thing, stop putting words in my mouth like that immediately!!!

Originally posted by torsion


To claim that things are not what they are is deception. Here in the UK deception made for personal gain is classed as fraud and is illegal.

Then why isn't your Prime Minister behind bars like he should be along with the idiot in office in my country, shill?

I am open minded to these pictures. They could be real, they could be fake. Who knows?

Either way, disclosure will come, it is already in the process as I type this.

It is so sad that you had to admit that.

As for proofs of Greer being a fraud: READ.
www.gaiaguys.net...
www.ufowatchdog.com...
www.ufowatchdog.com...
and
DR. GREER CLAIMS RIGHT TO USE "BEST EVIDENCE" DOCUMENT,
BUT UFO RESEARCH COALITION DECLARES HIS ACTION ILLEGAL
Here: www.nhne.com...
He is called "treacherous" and "dishonest," and even states that he has "deplorably bad judgment" - and that is even by one of his supporters.

Wait a bit, I am sure someone will take him to court, and it is going to snowball. But wait, you will blame the shadow government, and the MIC - instead of actually realizing... you've been had.

(edit my long quotes)

[edit on 4/24/2007 by kroms33]

Personally I find the whole copyright issue surrounding this subject to be..well..ridiculous. Your link about him "stealing" other peoples work doesn't exactly prove anything.

The DP is obviously not made of cash since they ask for frequent flyer miles.. or hey..maybe they're just that greedy.

The biggest problem I have in general with most of the "ufo researchers" and so on is that they write books, make DVDs and charge for it... and then they ask themselves why nobody is taking it seriously and asks the public to take it seriously..complains about media exposure and so on (this goes to the DP as well as others).

The reason why it IS getting more exposure lately has to do with the fact that users of YouTube and sites like it, ignore copyright laws, make mashups of the most interesting stuff or simply put the entire docu. right there..put it on blogs and so on. Now that's spreading the word.

To get your average Joe to raise an eyebrow to this subject you have to go pop culture on it, one might like it and one may not.. but it's just simply impossible to give a friend at work, who is 40+ years old, equals UFO to ghosts and tinfoils, a nice fat book outlining the story of UFOs from the 50's to now, the why, how and whens etc. BUT - give them DVD (which you, say, pulled of bittorrent, illegaly) that contains a docu. like "UFOs - The greatest story ever denied" and hopefully they will at least REACT when they hear the live feed from the discovery crew informing nasa that "we're still tracking the alien spaceship"..and hopefully they'll at least be intrigued..and THEN buy a book.

Go figure the DP needs a new publicist when their current one (if they have one) obviously is doing a #ty job. You need this stuff to go viral.

Obviously, no researcher of org. can go about this subject without having an income, so making money is fine - but don't make the same mistake the music industry is making by playing it by the old rules. WE DON'T want to be forced to pay xx amount of dollars for your DVD and then wait for it to be shipped over (especially if you live in another country and it'll take a couple of weeks). Let me use paypal, charge me a dollar for it and let me download it..use the freaking long tail, it's 2007 not 1999.

Anyways. As for the pictures and the rods. I know rods have been
bunked, but I'm still keeping my mind open to the possibility that maybe not all rods are alike. More than anything though, I swear that if I payed that many dollars, no NDAs in the world would keep me from telling it's BS if I found it to be.

I don't like the new age stuff Greer has been talking about lately either, but I'm willing to wait and see. "It's 2007..six years have passed..wtf.." Yeah, yeah, I feel that way too, but ultimatley it will come down to us, not a single individual to force this one out the doors.

All in all I do NOT think Greer is "hurting" the "community", "scene"..whatever you want to call it, I feel the subject has been given MORE serious attention thanks to his efforts. I stay open until "proved" otherwise.

Anyways. Check out this video, I loved it:
www.abovetopsecret.com...



[edit on 25-4-2007 by lasse]

Originally posted by lasse

All in all I do NOT think Greer is "hurting" the "community", "scene"..whatever you want to call it, I feel the subject has been given MORE serious attention thanks to his efforts.

Yeah, it can't be denied that he has made HUGE contributions, occasional PR goofups notwithstanding.....

Anyways. Check out this video, I loved it:

Hehe that's my absolute favorite video as well!

So we can add Jose Escamilla to the list of high-profile people who support Greer.....




[edit on 25-4-2007 by millerman]

Hehe that's my absolute favorite video as well!

So we can add Jose Escamilla to the list of high-profile people who support Greer.....
[edit on 25-4-2007 by millerman]

How do you get that from the docu? Ah maybe the fact that the producer seems tied to Jose and so on...well..yah maybe so. Personally I didn't like the fact that they threw Jose in the mix, but esh, whatcha gonna do.

Originally posted by lasse

Hehe that's my absolute favorite video as well!

So we can add Jose Escamilla to the list of high-profile people who support Greer.....
[edit on 25-4-2007 by millerman]

How do you get that from the docu? Ah maybe the fact that the producer seems tied to Jose and so on...well..yah maybe so. Personally I didn't like the fact that they threw Jose in the mix, but esh, whatcha gonna do.

Jose Escamilla is the one who made the film!

Originally posted by millerman

Hmmm, so it is true then that Greer "plagiarizes the UFO work of others and sells as his own."
It is so sad that you had to admit that.

I admitted no such thing, stop putting words in my mouth like that immediately!!!

But you did: Sure Greer put their testimony in a book and owns the rights to THAT SPECIFIC BOOK - but that doesn't stop the DP witnesses from writing other books! Or posting articles on the web!

So, he either had to take their stories (plagiarize), or get them to sign a waiver so he could use their material and make money off of it.
Which is it then?
I mean, if you take the stories of other people and put it in a book - isn't that plagiarism?
Oh, I know he got permission from them - but what about a waiver to make it legally his? I am pretty sure he made them sign one.

Of course they can talk about what ever they want - but he still owns the rights to their stories. You even admit it by stating he owns the rights to THAT SPECIFIC BOOK - which is a combination of their stories...
SO - What is your point then if you admit what I stated and then tell me to stop putting words in your mouth??? You said he wrote a book - the book is based off of other peoples stories. If he didn't get a waiver for their permission - that could be considered plagiarism. AND if he did get the waiver - he OWNS the rights to their stories.



[edit on 4/25/2007 by kroms33]

Jose Escamilla is the one who made the film!

oh snap. man, what's up with you americans and talking about yourself in third person

Originally posted by Mr Mxyztplk
I think that everyone’s right on the money about most of these shots, but one. That “Orb on Dr. Greer's chest” looks more like it’s printed on his t-shirt.

I too am baffled that people are even talking about this "orb". Listen to yourselves people! It's a design on his t-shirt and the conclusion is made that it is some strange orb. I am 100% behind disclosure and the work of Dr Greer, but please try to use a little common sense when posting. I would bet that Greer himself would laugh at the idea that this orb is anything more than a cool looking t-shirt.

Whoa. whoa whoa. Its a design on his t-shirt? It looks like a near-field dust mote to me. Not sure why it would be on his t-shirt. That seems almost as much of a stretch as a friendly energy orb.

Look. People do good things and they do bad things. Greer did a good thing in getting a lot of military people to come forward.

Now he appears (in my personal opinion) to have exposed that part of his reality is way way way in the deep end of the pool where his feet can't touch bottom, so to speak. That is probably not good for bringing the interesting stuff to the forefront of the public consciousness.

So he did one good thing, and now he is going all 'quack quack' on us. So be it.

If I ever manage to do one good thing I'll be satisfied.

I certainly would not pay for a UFO sighting tour. I wouldn't pay for dvds, etc. But at least there was something out in the open in 2000.

[edit on 26-4-2007 by Ectoterrestrial]

Originally posted by brigand
I too am baffled that people are even talking about this "orb". Listen to yourselves people! It's a design on his t-shirt and the conclusion is made that it is some strange orb. I would bet that Greer himself would laugh at the idea that this orb is anything more than a cool looking t-shirt.

It is CSETI who claim it is an orb. I don't think anyone here has agreed with that. Nor do I think CSETI are dumb enough to to try and get away with passing off a T-shirt design as something alien.

The object is an out of focus dust particle - it has all the characteristics of one.

It wouldn't suprise me if they had more photos with dust particles appearing close to other people but chose to use the one that is on Greer for obvious reasons.

So, he either had to take their stories (plagiarize), or get them to sign a waiver so he could use their material and make money off of it.
Which is it then? I mean, if you take the stories of other people and put it in a book - isn't that plagiarism? Oh, I know he got permission from them - but what about a waiver to make it legally his? I am pretty sure he made them sign one. Of course they can talk about what ever they want - but he still owns the rights to their stories. You even admit it by stating he owns the rights to THAT SPECIFIC BOOK - which is a combination of their stories...

SO - What is your point then if you admit what I stated and then tell me to stop putting words in your mouth??? You said he wrote a book - the book is based off of other peoples stories. If he didn't get a waiver for their permission - that could be considered plagiarism. AND if he did get the waiver - he OWNS the rights to their stories,

A waiver? Anyone with proof of a waiver signing over anything to Greer? Assumptions indeed. With that said then it may also be fair to say that it is possible that Greer 'paid the wittinesses' for the 'ok' to print their stories. Maybe Greer was told by the witnesses that they don't care how Greer gets their stories told as long as he quotes them correctly and uses their names correctly and helps them to spread 'the word'. We don't know what the deal the witnesses made with Greer, unless there is some proof that a witness is 'complaining' or has a 'legal argument' that Greer's book is infringing on them or is breaking a "waiver" agreement in any way. Is there such a witness?

Those witnesses have been telling their stories for years among friends, family and coworkers so even if Greer didn't have a waiver, (which no one really knows, do they? ), then with Greer re-telling whats already been said isn't plagarism because he isn't 'stealing' anything, just reporting/printing/re-telling whats being said by witnesses and others who have heard the story which is free speach and those stories told aren't copywrited stories, just verbal claims by people who say they have their own individual proof. Greer's book of testimonies is a good idea. Id for one like to read all the testimonies in one big book.

I am sure the witnesses, if they haven't already then will or should, make books of their own telling their own stories in their own words too. Now if Greeer takes out copywritten works from those books and uses it as his own then THAT'S plagarism and illegal.

I think the witnesses aren't so concerned as to Greer making some sort of money on their events, (as stated above he may be giving them a "cut" when he does), because those events that happened to each of those witnesses is just something they been needing to get 'off their chest's and minds by telling someone they feel they can trust to help them get it told to Congress and the world public' and if Greer needs money ,that they the witnesses can't give him, to do this then they may feel it is OKthat Greer's book earns money to help fund TDP that they (the witnesses) joined to help him with at their own free-will with no sign-up fee from Greer.

All said IMO-
Bzzz

[edit on 4/26/2007 by BuzzingOn]

So are you going to accuse Stanton Friedman of plagiarism for telling the stories of the people who came into contact with crashed ufos in Roswell?

It seems clear he wasn't there....

Are you going to accuse Dr Rosin of plagiarism for telling of her conversation with Dr Von Braun?

She was there, but she's getting credit for what Dr Von Braun said....

Here we go again...



Let's see here... a.) Bug flying in front of lense with large open aperature and prolonged shutter exposure, b.) a moth being over-exposed by the flash of the camera and c.) lense refraction typically seen on your lower grade digital cameras when shooting into two vastly differing lighting schemes as seen in the photo (Deep shadows versus sunlight).

Nothing at all remotely interesting in these pictures. Now to be fair, I know nothing about the man, Steven Greer, but Jeeeeesh - this can't bode well for his credibility.

Originally posted by kroms33

Originally posted by millerman

I admitted no such thing, stop putting words in my mouth like that immediately!!!

But you did: Sure Greer put their testimony in a book and owns the rights to THAT SPECIFIC BOOK - but that doesn't stop the DP witnesses from writing other books! Or posting articles on the web!

So, he either had to take their stories (plagiarize), or get them to sign a waiver so he could use their material and make money off of it.
Which is it then?

He would have needed to get some kind of written CONSENT from the witnesses, to USE their testimony in books and videos.

But just because he MADE USE OF their testimony, doesn't mean that he OWNS their testimony!

You are acting as if Greer now OWNS the DP witnesses, like they need to get permission from him to do anything, which is nonsense!

Sorry but you are way, way off with this entire argument, and you are quite clearly just making up absurd arguments just to try to back me into a corner (AGAIN).

Knock it off, genius.

Originally posted by millerman
Sorry but you are way, way off with this entire argument, and you are quite clearly just making up absurd arguments just to try to back me into a corner (AGAIN).
Knock it off, genius.

millerman, how do you explain the fraudulent pictures on Greer's website that are posted with the intent to deceive people into believing that Greer can vector in alien energy beings?