One baby in 30 left alive after medical termination

www.dailymail.co.uk...

I came across this article (I know it's the daily mail by still.....) and thought it provided an interesting view regrading abortion and when a fetus/baby should be considered an actual child.........

Since abortion is a major issue........I am curious on others thoughts/views regarding this article.

One in 30 babies aborted for medical reasons is born alive, a study has found.

They lived for an average of 80 minutes - although in some cases foetuses survived for over six hours.

Most of the babies were born between 20 and 24 weeks of pregnancy, but some had been in the womb for as little as 17 weeks.

At what point does is 'life' life?

'medical termination' ??? AKA = murder of the preborn.

I saw the article this morning. I have no doubt that live births during
abortion is one of the many dirty little secrets that the abortion industry
wants to keep America from finding out about.

I was once in favor of abortion, in fact when my now Xwife became pregnant with our first baby i tried so hard to get her to abort.
Fortunately for me, she was hard headed and she never listened to me and 9 months later my son was born, hes 13 now and life would suck if he werent in it.
I am in opposition to abortion now, i was just scared back then, I wasnt ready to become a father.

Okay, I'm pro-choice. I don't think the govt. should be forcing it's moral opinion on its citizens. I do think there should be statutes(which I believe just passed here in the U.S.) I definately would not have one as I think it's wrong, for Me. As for med. reasons, who knows? Maybe for someone else. Maybe if it's done in the way,way early stages. Here's where I get My experience. When I was in high school one of My classmates got pregnant. She was afraid to tell Her parents and was 24 wks along before They found out and She got the abortion. I wasn't aware of fetal delevopement at that time so I had no thought of it either way. Not too long after that I also got pregnant at the all-knowing age of 17. I went into pre-term labor at 24 1/2 wks and gave birth to My daughter. She was 2 lbs. 4 oz.- big for preemie standards. Her eyes were still fused shut, just like a puppies. With very few complications and none that have affected her developement She is going to be 20 this July. At 24 wks it is murder to abort and should only be considered in extreme medical conditions regarding Mom.

Peace. K*

I do not think it's really correct to call them babies at that stage, as
they are nothing but a cluster of biological material at that early on.

My opinion of when life is life, is when it has a more than 70% chance of
surviving outside of the womb.

Originally posted by Demetre
Okay, I'm pro-choice. I don't think the govt. should be forcing it's moral opinion on its citizens.

Murder is an area where the government forces it's moral opinion on us every day. The taking of human life is illegal, and not just in the US. Sanctity of human life is a universal moral value.

Not so, however, for other forms of life, like animal and plant. Thing is, we are now smart enough to know what defines the type of life we are observing. We do this by observing DNA, the genetic code that will determine what type of life a biological mass will become. That same DNA also causes all to be different, individual, even from the mothers we (unknowingly at the time) trust to fulfill their part of the bargain; their part being of course "I voluntarily caused you to be, so I will not destroy you."

Now, if a pregnant woman got that way without any active participation on her part or if we could never be sure if the thing growing inside her would be human, plant or animal until it exited her body, I would at least see it as a "choice" issue. Seeing as we know exactly what that thing in the woman is, and that it has a distinct and individual genetic makeup, I would say it boils down to murder, even if it is just a "medical procedure."

Originally posted by iori_komei
I do not think it's really correct to call them babies at that stage

Well they sure aren’t horses or rose bushes. We know what they will be, we know what they will look like. Sometimes, we even know their names.

They have the potential to be only one thing, and that is human. Their genetic codes says they are human, and to intentionally cause the life functions of a human to stop is called murder.

Originally posted by cavscout
Well they sure aren’t horses or rose bushes. We know what they will be, we know what they will look like. Sometimes, we even know their names.
They have the potential to be only one thing, and that is human. Their genetic codes says they are human, and to intentionally cause the life functions of a human to stop is called murder.

Well, there is a chance, albeit astronomically small that they could mutate
to become such.

What I mean is just as you do not call a 16 year old a child, or a 10 year
old a toddler, the word baby is meant to describe the individual for a
specific set time of there existance.

I do not consider something human or life just because it has the potential
to be such, not until it has a good chance of surviving outside of a womb
do I consider it little more than a parasite/symbiote (depending on the
womans view of it, either word wcould apply), and as such not to be an
indivual.

They have the potential to be only one thing, and that is human. Their genetic codes says they are human, and to intentionally cause the life functions of a human to stop is called murder.

How can you murder something which isn't truely alive? I am against abortion, but at an early stage of pregnancy I think it should be allowed.

Anyway, the bottom line is and I'm sure you'll all agree, don't get pregnant if you don't want to!

The procedure which is now banned was the following:

Late Term
Turning the baby so the feet come out first
then puncturing the skull and sucking out the brains.

If someone can physically grab the legs.......then it's a baby.

There are actually far more survivors of abortion than you might think. Here's a site with a few who didn't mind coming forward.

members.tripod.com...

They all look like people to me. I would probably have been killed if it had been legal in '64, so says my birthmother, and I certainly consider myself a person, though others might argue the point.

resistor - kudos for finding such a powerful 'write-up'.

The question to ask is not how long they live after been out of the womb as early as 17 weeks but how will they survive when they are not truly developed yet.

And abortion is not to get rid of a Death fetus people is to stop one from developing into a full term baby.

denied ignorance please.

The article is nothing more than propaganda for the pro life and religious groups.

I think we are all intelligent enough to understand what goes on in an abortion at this time in history.

If you do not believe in abortion do no have one, but let me make my own decision of what I want to do with my body.

Get a grip.

[edit on 24-4-2007 by marg6043]

Originally posted by marg6043
If you do not believe in abortion do no have one, but let me make my own decision of what I want to do with my body.

That is like saying "if you don’t believe in murder, don’t commit one."

Agree with the pro-not killing humans no matter what crowd or not, once you understand that we view abortion as murder because it involves the death of a human being with a distinct and separate genetic code, you should at least understand where we are coming from.

We think it is murder, marg.

You would not support repealing murder laws in your country, would you? So at least be understanding enough not to blast those who would not kill babies as ignorant.

Maybe they think the same of you, not understanding genetics enough to label that aborted human as a life separate from the woman who chose to allow it to grow inside her.

You dont get to kill a house guest just because they have become a burden, even if it is your house.

Originally posted by iori_komei
I do not think it's really correct to call them babies at that stage, as
they are nothing but a cluster of biological material at that early on.

24 weeks = 6 months or so, agree?

Eyes and eyelids fully formed
Fat is developing under the skin
Fetus is 14 inches long and weighs 2 pounds

www.dushkin.com...

Looks / sounds like a baby to me.


This would be the "cluster of biological material" that you speak of:

Fertilization occurs
Zygote implants itself in the lining of the uterus
Rapid cell division occurs
Embryonic stage lasts from 2 weeks to 8 weeks
Cells differentiate into three distinct layers:
the ectoderm, the mesoderm, and the endoderm
Nervous system begins to develop
Embryo is 1/2 inch long

[edit on 24-4-2007 by elevatedone]

Like I said before, moralistic views of what is right or wrong depending on religious or other agendas are the choice of the person that believe in them.

Cavscout, you have the right to believe and have an opinion of what you see to be right and wrong. However, not necessarily I have to agree with your views and believes that is my choice, as an adult is nobody’s business what I do or decided to do with my property that included my body and anything inside of it.

Keep the moralistic views for your own and the people that like you believe in them.

We can discuss them as civilized adults, but you have no right to call me or anybody a killer for disagreeing with you.

That is why we must deny ignorance and stop living each other people’s lives and pushing our brand of believes and moralistic views and respect each other choices. If people would spend as much time and pasion with their own personal business as they do trying to manipulate others people’s lives, it will not be so much hate in this world.

Have a great day.

This is truly disturbing.. As a husband and father of two, I could never support abortion. Just as I am not allowed to kill my neighbor because I don't like him living next to me, I should not be allowed to kill my unborn child because its not convenient. Abortion is murder, period. Any parent will tell you that feeling your child moving around in the womb is one of the coolest and most real signs you will have that the being inside is alive and quite human. We have done so much to lose touch with ourselves and trivialize human life, but this is one area where the crime is unforgivable.

Originally posted by marg6043
However, not necessarily I have to agree with your views and believes

No, you sure don’t have to agree with me. Neither does the murderer sitting in prison have to agree with my morals that what he did was wrong. Whatever helps you sleep, right?

Keep the moralistic views for your own and the people that like you believe in them.

Right...so you should be allowed to steal, write bad checks, assault people, beat your kids MURDER BABIES, all because these are moral issues? Where do you draw the line, Marg? When does it stop becoming my morals and become a societal or universal moral? Oh, thats right, when it doesnt give you stretch marks.

We can discuss them as civilized adults, but you have no right to call me or anybody a killer for disagreeing with you.

No, not for disagreeing with you, but for killing babies.

pushing our brand of believes and moralistic views and respect each other choices. If people would spend as much time and pasion with their own personal business as they do trying to manipulate others people’s lives, it will not be so much hate in this world.

Have a great day.

So, like I asked before, you don’t think we as a society should have rules against murder, assault, check fraud, burglary, ect.?

We should all mind our business no matter what, right?

You keeping throwing the deny ignorance phrase out, marg, yet have failed to explain to me how someone with a completely different genetic code can be, as you said, your "property." Deny ignorance is right.

You have a good day too marg.


[edit on 24-4-2007 by cavscout]

BTW, here is a picture of a 18 week old baby. Looks like a human to me, sure aint a cat or dog, you can even tell that it is not a monkey!

We have a word for someone who kills a human.




Edited to correct baby age.



[edit on 24-4-2007 by cavscout]

Here's a good site with facts intstead of opinions.

justfacts.com...