I have no sympathy

Originally posted by masqua
.

There is NO WAY anyone who is not an American should preach about the laws in that country. If you don't like it, the best thing for you to do is not visit there. If Americans want to gripe about Canadian laws, then the opposite is true... YOU should not be preaching to us about our laws either.

Leave it to the population who lives there... they have the power to make changes and not someone living in 'wherever'.

Masqua, once again your wisdom shows. I would have said much the same but I knew if I did, I'd get replies like, "Oh, because I am not American my opinion doesn't count?" And a bunch of other garbage comments of the sort. So, I just refrained from saying it. I am glad you did.

However I have a fairly awesome collection of swords and crossbows, I was a sniper in the Marines, I know how to handle firearms, I just hate the noise they make ( I suppose I could get a mac-10 with a silencer if I was so inclined). For those of you that think it's the guns fault here is a link for you to check out and peruse

www.samurai-archives.com...

they didn't have guns for a LONG time, yet killing 32 people was/is childsplay, I know I could do it if I was so inclined, probably more cause they wouldn't hear me coming ( except for a few screams , maybe )

allegedly the hijackers didn't have guns, yet close to 3000 people were killed, more people die in car accidents in one day than died in VA, face it people, Life is 100% fatal, no if's and's or but's about it. if you decide to let someone else take your life, thats great, I will not and can not think that way, I'm not wired for it at all. I will always defend your right to speak your opinion as you see it, with my very life if need be, because that IS how I am wired. I draw the line at YOU thinking you can impose your opinion on me.

I am not offended by words, insults do not bother me, if your Opinion has merit, I will listen, however, has ANY of you Ever heard of a gun shop getting robbed? ever wonder why that is?

we have guns to instill Fear in our Government, plain and simple, otherwise WE, The People, would have no Hope of anything other then a tyranny


BTW: OP read the last quote in my signature

In many places on ATS I see people saying how oppressive its becoming in the United States in this day and age. Let's for a moment accept that theory as fact ( I don't, but anyway...). Why do you think said oppression hasn't taken the ultimate step to a total police state, especially if the NWO is so omnipresent? Might it be because many of the would be oppressed such as myself are armed, and presumably dangerous? A firearm is only one of many methods for maintaining our freedom, not just from a mightbe oppressive gov't, but more real dangers such as criminals. Firearms are tools, not the danger themselves. The user of the tool chooses to be dangerous or not.

Cho, or whatever his name was, was a sick, delusional young man. Hardly a fair representation of the common firearms owner in America. Quit trying to make that connection, it isn't a valid one.

Missed your comment masqua. Well said. American's will hash this out, as we always do. Feel free to kabitz...but ultimately ours are the only opinions that will count.

[edit on 19-4-2007 by seagull]

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Let's leave the preconceptions at the door folk and keep it calm.

BTW sneakoid, do you have the same preconceptions of me because I'm a gun owner?

It'd take an essay, but I'll outline it.

Restriction of weapons has two consequences:

One, it means...who can have guns? Only the government? The right to bear arms has been a constant enemy of tyrants. Who the hell is someone working for the government to have something that I can't? Sorry, but I don't trust them. I will defend MY OWN HOME and MY OWN SELF against robbers and thieves. It just takes too long for the police to arrive. This isn't a nanny state or a police state, though this guy wants it to be.

Two, it means that the only citizens (or otherwise) with weapons who are not part of the government will have gotten them ILLEGALLY. That means that you lose all control of the arms trade! The only person with a gun will be someone who BROKE THE LAW TO GET IT. Meaning, criminals will be the only ones who are armed? Do you realize what that is doing? It would be SLAUGHTERING all those who would have been able to defend themselves!

www.gunowners.org...

This is nice.

* Guns used 2.5 million times a year in self-defense. Law-abiding citizens use guns to defend themselves against criminals as many as 2.5 million times every year -- or about 6,850 times a day.1 This means that each year, firearms are used more than 60 times more often to protect the lives of honest citizens than to take lives.2

* Anti-gun Clinton researchers find an annual total of 1.5 million self-defense cases. According to the Clinton Justice Department, there are as many as 1.5 million cases of self-defense every year. The National Institute of Justice published this figure in 1997 as part of "Guns in America" -- a study which was authored by noted anti-gun criminologists Philip Cook and Jens Ludwig.3

* Concealed carry laws have dropped murder and crime rates in the states that have enacted them. According to a comprehensive study which studied crime statistics in all of the counties in the United States from 1977 to 1992, states which passed concealed carry laws reduced their murder rate by 8.5%, rapes by 5%, aggravated assaults by 7% and robbery by 3%.4

* Anti-gun journal pronounces the failure of the Brady law. One of the nation's leading anti-gun medical publications, the Journal of the American Medical Association, found that the Brady registration law has failed to reduce murder rates. In August 2000, JAMA reported that states implementing waiting periods and background checks did "not [experience] reductions in homicide rates or overall suicide rates."5

* More children are killed playing football in school than they are by guns. That's right. Despite what media coverage might seem to indicate, more children die playing high school football, than they do by firearms at school. The most recent year on record shows that 18 football players died during the school year ending in June, 2000 (from hits to the head, heat stroke, etc.), as compared with 9 students by firearms.6

Yes. It allows people who follow the laws to have firearms, but in the end, it saves FAR more lives than it costs. It's a matter of statistics and common sense here.

But ideologically? It preserves a fundamental, and immensely important right. It means that the government cannot so easily suppress, and that people are not completely reliant on Big Brother for protection. It gives the citizen power.


I'm afraid to argue with someone who would say stupid, ignorant comments like, "Spoken like a true american. " but I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt.

Lets get one thing clear here, the title I made for this thread did not for
one second mean I had no sympathy for the victims or their families.
Because I do. It was an horrific horrible event which is the reason I started this thread on the danger of psychos who can easily get a gun, just because its their right.

I simply have no sympathy for americans who hide behind an antiquated
law on the basis that your government might try to take away your rights or freedom.

Your government controls you big time and you have done nothing about it.
9/11, the war in iraq, not to mention your presidents election fiasco which looks like he won in unsavoury circumstances.
Surely america was against these things happening, but what did you do?
Nothing.

You just want to own a gun simple as that.

Originally posted by thesneakiod
You just want to own a gun simple as that.

And? So, someone wants to own a gun... Your remarks are becoming redundant. How many times have you said something similar in this thread?I am not trying to be an ass, but I think you are way over your head on this one.

[edit on 19-4-2007 by SpeakerofTruth]

I feel bad that so many died, and the warning flags on Cho went off but nothing was followed up on. this was a classic example of a nut falling thru the cracks because no one followed through, but we need to cure the problem ( people getting more crazy ) rather then a symptom ( legal hand guns )


Oh BTW Texas just passed a law two weeks ago that says you can now Legally shoot some one trying to carjack you or that tries to do you bodily harm at the workplace, that goes along with shooting trespassers on your property, I keep a bolt in my crossbow at ALL times, it's just not cocked. No I'm not paranoid, I was a Marine, and a boyscout before that and live by the boyscout Motto: "always prepared"

Originally posted by thedigirati
I feel bad that so many died, and the warning flags on Cho went off but nothing was followed up on. this was a classic example of a nut falling thru the cracks because no one followed through, but we need to cure the problem ( people getting more crazy ) rather then a symptom ( legal hand guns )

Digirati, well, I myself am admittedly a prime example of this. My psychologist has labeled me with at least two and maybe three mental disorders but failed to recommend me to see a psychiatrist or anything. Seems rather strange to me, but, hey, what can I do?

[edit on 19-4-2007 by SpeakerofTruth]

Originally posted by intrepid
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Let's leave the preconceptions at the door folk and keep it calm.

BTW sneakoid, do you have the same preconceptions of me because I'm a gun owner?

Waiting on this one man. Got an answer? Do I just want a gun?

thesneakiod~ Wow! You stirred the proverbial hornets nest. It's really a shame that You generalize the people of America the way You do. Kinda like Me thinking every canadian walks around drinking beer like on Strange Brew saying "aye?' We are as diverse as it gets. What happened at V-Tech is an absolute horror and will weigh heavy on Us all for awhile to come. The fact that You used that instance to berate what You think is wrong with Our country is in poor taste to those who are dead and to those who've lost loved ones and only shows how very insensitive You are. We have a right to own guns and will continue to do so. We will remain a free country bcuz We own guns. Your views on Us are narrow and hate filled, and really a shame. I am a mother of 4 absolutely beautiful children who strives everyday to teach them the value of life and the gift of love. My children are taught that guns are not toys and I'm even neurotic enough that They've never been allowed to have cowboy guns or play 'shoot-em-up'. My family is what I live for and it's My obligation to keep them safe-at anyones expense. My guns aren't for commiting crimes, hell, they aren't even for hunting-I'm so freakin' passive and peace-loving I don't eat meat. Any gun I have is to protect what is most sacred to Me- My freedom and My family. We're not all war mongering, blood lusting, evil doers, but I'm pretty sure You've had You're mind up either way.

Peace. K*

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
Digirati, well, I myself am admittedly a prime example of this. My psychologist has labeled me with at least two and maybe three mental disorders but failed to recommend me to see a psychiatrist or anything. Seems rather strange to me, but, hey, what can I do?

Speaker, I too was labeled with "mental disorders" Guess what, we had black mold in our house, they symptoms were the same as a mental disorder, I moved out and my life is grand, so look to an allergist just in case.

living in Texas I have mold allergies that I never had in Michigan, but now I can fight the root cause and not be on anti-depressants, it's always the details.

when I was was taking my "medications" I was in worse shape then when I was not taking them, it was horrible, which is why I can understand the blind rage syndrome, in that i cam empathize with Cho, not for the killing, but the feeling of uncontrollable rage, thankfully I worked out my rage online in games. it was cathartic for me and no one was damaged physically (although a few gaming buddies still quake in fear at the mere mention of my online name LOL) I was lucky, not everyone is

Originally posted by thesneakiod
the title I made for this thread did not for one second mean I had no sympathy for the victims or their families.

MOST of the victims were Americans. You sat here bashing Americans, our Constitution, and our heritage. Therefore, you bashed the victims.
You said it yourself - I have no sympathy. I FULLY believe that you ment
it and still do. THAT attitude is more of a danger to society than any of
us gun owners who have posted on this thread.

You don't like our Constitution ... then don't come visit our country.

[edit on 4/19/2007 by FlyersFan]

Why shouldn't law abiding people with reasonable expectations of safety for them and their family not be allowed to own a gun which imo us a form of insurance from danger when not having a gun would leave you helpless? We live in a unfriendly world and lots of people ARE out to steal and harm others so why wouldn't it be a SMART idea for a family to be able to protect itself?

If a law passes that says no citizens can have guns then only the ones who break the law will still be armed and that leaves the regular people at a disadvantage to the criminals. Its a shame anyone shoots anyone but we live on this planet and it is what it is so I would never leave my family at risk by not being able to defend against unlawful intrusion or immediate harm.

Life is dangerous and I do not live in America but I know because their population is so much bigger they have more crime so regular people are more in danger of being victim to such crimes. Of course all firearms should be regulated, tracked and never sold to people with criminal records or mental illnesses and also I don't think regular people need assault weapons or heavy military weapons. Handguns and hunting rifles are great for citizens to use responsibly and imo a parent who teaches proper firearm safety to his children is doing then good and a person who is educated is less likely to make a dangerous mistake.

I think the OP also said something about Canada's people not having a lot of guns but thats just false. Per capita we have almost as many guns as Americans, not as many but a good portion of Canadians are outdoors people and we are fond of our firearms. We have tighter laws on what you can and can't own but there is still a nice selection down at Canadian tire and sporting stores.

Just like a car or any other dangerous piece of equipment a gun should be licensed and regulated and if thats done proper it will stop a lot of the problem people from getting guns, just look at Canada's murder rate per capita!

Originally posted by intrepid

Originally posted by intrepid
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Let's leave the preconceptions at the door folk and keep it calm.

BTW sneakoid, do you have the same preconceptions of me because I'm a gun owner?

Waiting on this one man. Got an answer? Do I just want a gun?

It depends what you want to use it for.
If its to protect you and your family because(god forbid) they were going to get killed, then you are a sane rational person who has every right to own one.

If you just want one because well.... you have the right to because of the tenuous possibility that there might be anarchy on the streets, then you are a irrational delusional person.

It reminds me of a simpsons episode where they install an anti bear system on the streets costing thousands just because one escaped from the zoo.

Originally posted by thesneakiod
I simply have no sympathy for americans who hide behind an antiquated
law on the basis that your government might try to take away your rights or freedom.

It is, in fact, even more important today than ever.

Originally posted by thesneakiod
Your government controls you big time and you have done nothing about it.
9/11, the war in iraq, not to mention your presidents election fiasco which looks like he won in unsavoury circumstances.
Surely america was against these things happening, but what did you do?
Nothing.

What a stupid, ignorant, moronic response.

The president was elected.

The war in Iraq was, at first, supported by the public. Our ELECTED representatives voted to authorize force.

Originally posted by thesneakiod
You just want to own a gun simple as that.

Yeah, okay. You just want to rob me of my rights. Simple as that.

(edit: removed provokative comment)

[edit on 19-4-2007 by Johnmike]

Originally posted by thesneakiod
It depends what you want to use it for.
If its to protect you and your family because(god forbid) they were going to get killed, then you are a sane rational person who has every right to own one.

There you go. You never know what moron is going to try and, say, rob you, or attack you. Chances are, will you be hurt? No. But you should be able to defend yourself if the situation arises.

Did you even bother to read my posts, or the statistics I posted?

I think the OP also said something about Canada's people not having a lot of guns but thats just false. Per capita we have almost as many guns as Americans, not as many but a good portion of Canadians are outdoors people and we are fond of our firearms. We have tighter laws on what you can and can't own but there is still a nice selection down at Canadian tire and sporting stores.




You think wrong. Read the thread properly or dont bother posting.

Originally posted by thesneakiod
Lets get one thing clear here, the title I made for this thread did not for
one second mean I had no sympathy for the victims or their families.
Because I do. It was an horrific horrible event which is the reason I started this thread on the danger of psychos who can easily get a gun, just because its their right.

I simply have no sympathy for americans who hide behind an antiquated
law on the basis that your government might try to take away your rights or freedom.

Your government controls you big time and you have done nothing about it.
9/11, the war in iraq, not to mention your presidents election fiasco which looks like he won in unsavoury circumstances.
Surely america was against these things happening, but what did you do?
Nothing.

You just want to own a gun simple as that.

Originally posted by thesneakiod
It depends what you want to use it for.
If its to protect you and your family because(god forbid) they were going to get killed, then you are a sane rational person who has every right to own one.

And who decides this for the people? Who makes the determination on what you put on an application for a firearm?

If you just want one because well.... you have the right to because of the tenuous possibility that there might be anarchy on the streets, then you are a irrational delusional person.

Again, who decides that this mindset is wrong for the possession of firearms?

It reminds me of a simpsons episode where they install an anti bear system on the streets costing thousands just because one escaped from the zoo.

We'll leave the cartoons out of real life thanks.