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I have no sympathy

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posted on Apr, 19 2007 @ 02:43 PM
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Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
Any "sicko" would get a gun whether there were laws or not... Ever hear of the Black Market? Uh, yeah, your argument is not very effective.

[edit on 19-4-2007 by SpeakerofTruth]


Yep, since drugs have been outlawed, no one uses them now, and you cant get them anywhere!




Banning guns is not good, and giving the government more control over us is, well, not really in our best interest.




posted on Apr, 19 2007 @ 02:46 PM
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I used to be just like the OPer; I thought gun ownership for the average joe was just crazy.

But today, in view of how this country has mutated in the last 6 years, I have a totally different appreciation of the 2nd Amendment.

It was written as the last resort of We the People to protect ourselves. It is no accident; the Founding Fathers were extremely prescient regarding what kinds of tyrannies can befall even the most free societies.

We are in a terrible place in today's America, and I for one, though I'd never carry a gun, am glad the 2nd Amendment exists.

In sum, look at the big picture, not the aberrations.



posted on Apr, 19 2007 @ 02:51 PM
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Originally posted by thesneakiod
YOU are a threat to society,


Actually, it's sociopaths , those with NO SYMPATHY or empathy for their fellow human beings, that are a threat to society.



[edit on 4/19/2007 by FlyersFan]



posted on Apr, 19 2007 @ 02:59 PM
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I just wonder how many of these anti gun people would wish they had a gun if/when someone breaks into their house looking to rape and kill your wife/children.



posted on Apr, 19 2007 @ 02:59 PM
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Originally posted by gottago


But today, in view of how this country has mutated in the last 6 years, I have a totally different appreciation of the 2nd Amendment.




Last six years,hell. For the last 60 years this country has been morphing into something that our forefathers wouldn't even recognize.



posted on Apr, 19 2007 @ 03:03 PM
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External source
1998 – BETWEEN 7.2 AND 11 MILLION GUNS IN CANADA – JUSTICE DEPT.

Source

I live in canada. I think the newer statistic is something like 7 million guns for every 10 million homes..(or something along those lines.)

IMO the issue isnt the ownership of guns, because clearly in canada, we have tonns of them. Its who's getting these guns and for what reasons. I dont think removing firearms from a populace will do a damn thing.

In fact, i think firearm control is really just scapegoating the social issues leading upto such atrocities as the Vtech shooting.



posted on Apr, 19 2007 @ 03:04 PM
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Originally posted by gottago
I used to be just like the OPer; I thought gun ownership for the average joe was just crazy.

But today, in view of how this country has mutated in the last 6 years, I have a totally different appreciation of the 2nd Amendment.

It was written as the last resort of We the People to protect ourselves. It is no accident; the Founding Fathers were extremely prescient regarding what kinds of tyrannies can befall even the most free societies.

We are in a terrible place in today's America, and I for one, though I'd never carry a gun, am glad the 2nd Amendment exists.

In sum, look at the big picture, not the aberrations.


finally a level headed american, no offence, but people here are getting viciouse, and threatening to kill others.

if the second ammendment was to protect yourself against government, lets see you use those guns agianst the government. pull that gun infront of the whitehouse and see what happens. Im not allowed to protest withing 100 meters of my parliment without a gun, how has having a gun got you any closer?

your useing your guns to fight off problems that your government gave you, druggs, poverty, crime in gerneral, and not doing anything to your government.

most of you would rather shoot at eachother rather than the government.

i think the second amendment is BS and has not done anything to help america.

martial law? wtf are talking about. you dont need guns to protect yourself from martial law, that is stupid idea. how about americans not dictating to other americans just because a branch of government told them too. no shots fired.



posted on Apr, 19 2007 @ 03:07 PM
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Allow me to bring a certain country into this argument...

Switzerland.

news.bbc.co.uk...

That is all.



posted on Apr, 19 2007 @ 03:10 PM
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Threatening to kill people? Because they say they'll defend themselves from attack? That's not a threat, my freind, that's a statement of future intent should that unfortunate event take place.



posted on Apr, 19 2007 @ 03:16 PM
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You dont get it do you, Cho could of killed those people with a bomb, car or knife, but he never. He used a gun. Infact he used two guns that he was allowed to buy legally. And obviously there were no checks on him whatsoever.

In the last ten years America has had nearly 20 of these incidents and each time the 2nd amendment gets dragged up with gusto with scant regard of how much it gets violated each and every time. What patriotism.

Its the attitude of "Yeah those people got killed but so what? I want to keep my gun, and if it happens again? Tough."

Even with the army the size that america has, its people could still overthrow its government with or without guns.
But you people dont seem to realise this.

I wonder what the poor grieving families think of the 2nd amendment right now.




posted on Apr, 19 2007 @ 03:17 PM
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To the original poster.
Why don't you close your mouth, and open your eyes?

First, everyone has the right to defend themselfs.
If you have a problem with someone other than the govt carrying a gun for self protection, then your either a complete coward, who relies on others to finish your fight, or your a sheep.

Second, this kid did not kill all of those people himself.
Who do you know, can kill 2 kids, then himself.. and still be able to chain together doors, mail off a package, and 2 hours later.. after he's dead, shoot 29 more people?

This was a set-up from the start.



posted on Apr, 19 2007 @ 03:20 PM
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I'd like to also add, guns do NOT kill people.
People kill people.
Man has been killing since we first exsisted.
It's imprinted in our DNA to be the most ferocious killers alive, this why we've survived, and improved so much.

And to those who say "well if he wasnt allowed to own a gun..." then he would have found another tool to kill people with, or have you forgotten guns arent the only item you can kill someone with?



posted on Apr, 19 2007 @ 03:26 PM
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Originally posted by MichaelMyers
To the original poster.
Why don't you close your mouth, and open your eyes?

First, everyone has the right to defend themselfs.
If you have a problem with someone other than the govt carrying a gun for self protection, then your either a complete coward, who relies on others to finish your fight, or your a sheep.

Second, this kid did not kill all of those people himself.
Who do you know, can kill 2 kids, then himself.. and still be able to chain together doors, mail off a package, and 2 hours later.. after he's dead, shoot 29 more people?

This was a set-up from the start.


what are you talking about, people that dont have guns are cowards, your spine is yellow and that is why you cant let go.



posted on Apr, 19 2007 @ 03:34 PM
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I wonder how many gun killing crimes were caused by people that have a permit to carry one? It's always criminals. Take the gun away from law abiding citizens and give them to the criminals. I don't think so. People kill not the guns. People who have permits take shooting courses and safety courses. Criminals just get the gun and that's it. Don't know what the laws are in other countries with guns but in a America we have our laws and constitution that no other country can touch. So quit trying to throw your laws on america.



posted on Apr, 19 2007 @ 03:35 PM
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accept to protect themselves from gun wielding maniacs like Cho.

this guy would have gotten a gun no matter what, if thats what he wanted to do. In my opinion the fact that guns were not allowed on campus was a contributing factor.

People don't seem to realize that if gun control was implicated, the only people with guns would be the criminals. How is that a good situation?

And before you go ranting about me being pro gun. I'm not. I live in Canada, where it is possible to get a gun, but not at your local walmart.
What I am is pro common sense.
In a state which allows concelead handguns with a permit, it seems downright foolish to bar them from campus. If there had been even 1 other person in that class room with a gun, there is no way the whole classroom would have been forced against the wall waiting for thier execution.
Somone with a gun would have shot this guy down after he shot the first or second victim.

I'm not saying that everyone should have a gun. Far from it actually. But i do believe that there would have been a whole different situation if there was potentially other guns there.
Do you really think this guy would have attempted this massacre if there were a chance that it wouldn't succeed?
IMO the fact that there were no other guns on campus was probably a motivation for the event. he may have thought twice about it had there been the potential for other guns.

BTW: No sympathy? are you some sort of sociopath? 32 inocent people just got shot down while attending school and you have no sympathy? They didnt put a glock in Cho's hand. They didn't give him antidepresents that affected his reality. All they did was abide by the rules, go to class and not carry a weapon.

VT did not allow concealed weapons as you so ignorantly stated.

get you facts. ponder them objectively. come to a rational conclusion. Deny ignorance. dont feed it



posted on Apr, 19 2007 @ 03:39 PM
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i agree with the OP to a certain extent american should relinquish its guns for the good of its children. lets face it. the excuse of "we all frightened of our government" is just rubbish. you arnt going to use them against your government, your just living in a paraniod fantasy world.

it would be hard for most people to concoct and distribute a poison. quite hard these days to make a bomb and as for mowing people down in your car well that really is just grabbing at straws. no its far far easier for a distressed and mentally problematic teenager to pull a trigger.

you people who defend the right to carry a weapon are wrong. you are so very very very wrong.

your wrong gun lovers. WRONG

your just in love with your right to play god.



posted on Apr, 19 2007 @ 03:42 PM
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Originally posted by thesneakiod


The average law abiding citizen who has 2.4 children and works nine to five, has absolutley no reason to own a gun.


I disagree.
A firearm could have stopped this from happening if they only had one with them. Sometimes live and let live doesn't work.

Don't kid yourself, there are a lot of sicko's out there, in all countries. Carrying protection, for yourself, and your familiy is quite simply... wise.



[edit on 4/19/07 by makeitso]



posted on Apr, 19 2007 @ 03:50 PM
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Yeah, nothing like a foreigner weighing in on something that they can't even begin to comprehend! Nothing like a hasty generalization wrapped in a straw man fishing for red herrings...


I mean, after all, we've completely outlawed drugs and now nobody is using them. We've increased the drinking age to 21 and not one single minor even thinks about drinking alcohol. We've attached ridiculously harsh penalties to violent crimes committed with weapons and now people only hold up banks with bats and knives. Sure, making laws has solved ALL of our problems.


Legislating us into infantilism is the only way that we can live, right?
We NEED the government to protect us from ourselves and one another. Think about it, there is a camera on every street corner and living room in the UK and there is absolutely NO crime anywhere in the country anymore.


I mean come on! Now seriously... If you are going to give American citizens a lecture on OUR Constitutional rights, it would be helpful if you had even a semblence of a clue as to what you are talking about. I own guns, many of them and I am a responsible, law abiding citizen. Passing laws banning fireamrs will only leave the criminals and the government (Could be one in the same) armed and that just ain't ever gonna happen - not in this country, not on this soil and not to the TRUE patriots of this country. Count on it!



posted on Apr, 19 2007 @ 04:00 PM
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I would have loved to see him go into a classroom full of Americans who would have been allowed to carry concealed weapons on campus. I bet you this wackjob wouldnt have had as many kills.



posted on Apr, 19 2007 @ 04:01 PM
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Even in a country like Canada, where handguns are restricted, people using handguns still kill people and that's just a fact. If every Canadian was carrying a loaded Glock, I'm sure there would be an even greater incidence of killings happening. With the restrictions, it's the bad guys who have them and use them for criminal acts... and that's not good either. I don't know what the answer is, but it sure would make for an interesting controlled debate in H2H.

My concern is that if everyone had them, people who normally would use their fists would pull out the 9 instead.

What gets me in this thread, though, is the anger being displayed.

There is NO WAY anyone who is not an American should preach about the laws in that country. If you don't like it, the best thing for you to do is not visit there. If Americans want to gripe about Canadian laws, then the opposite is true... YOU should not be preaching to us about our laws either.

Leave it to the population who lives there... they have the power to make changes and not someone living in 'wherever'.

Also, speculating about a great ATS member like Deus Ex on this thread WITHOUT HIM HERE just seems a bit low to me... he can express himself very well on his own and I would prefer to hear HIS own opinions. So why not just leave that bit alone. I don't think anyone in this thread would like to discover being talked about in a thread while they were away.

As for the supposed threats being bandied about... what do you expect when you attack an entire society for the stupidity of one nutty Korean?

As for my own stand on gun control, I'm firmly against the long gun registry... it's a colossal waste of taxpayers money and does nothing to get the illegal guns off the street. It's pure bollocks.

And, since I'd rather hunt deer and moose, I couldn't care less about handguns. I don't need one nor do I want one, so, as far as making them hard to get licensed for all I can say is 'pfffft'.

But one thing IS for sure. At ATS Courtesy is mandatory





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