It's my cynical belief that Turkey will be accepted for no better reason that this will be to the enormous financial advantage of Big Business.

Yes, many Turks are keen to dispel negative opinions arising as consequence of backwards and violent fundamentalistic religious and ethnic beliefs and actions. Turkey is keen to display its 'secular' face to the world.

How thin is the veneer of secularism, however?

Frankly, I feel Turkey will become more genuinely secular through inclusion in the EU. Which will be of enormous benefit not only to it's minority groups but also to its majority.

After all, Turkey stands to gain enormously from EU membership and the Turks are well aware of the benefits to be gained both nationally and at individual level.

The more Turks interact on all levels with the West, the more keen they will be maintain mutual respect and co-operation. A Turk attending university in Bristol or Paris, or about to close a lucrative deal in Berlin, will cringe each time a Turk religiously motivated 'honor murder' or other atrocity appears on Western tv news and newspaper front page. This will filter down to even the most fundamentalist group or individual.

Turkey has many astute and highly-successful (on international level) business-people who have long been acutely aware of the need to present themselves and their nation as cultured, ethical, competitive, etc. Money talks, especially when money's to be gained on both sides of the equation. The EU members are as keen to do business with Turkey as Turkey is to expand its position. Acceptance by the EU may well see the swift replacement of those Turkish politicians who currently smile to the West whilst at the same time privately upholding fundamentalist tradition.

Acceptance by the EU may well usher in a new breed of Turkish politician(activated by Western political/aka: 'commercial' influences) and result in new attitudes amongst even fundamentalist Turks. It won't happen overnight, but as it's in Turkey's interests to demonstrate secularism rather than as now, to claim it, there's a good chance a new EU broom will sweep away Turkey's hard-liners --- eventually those hard-liners will agree to move with the times, or will have to move elsewhere. I don't feel there's much doubt that Turkey will be accepted sooner rather than later.

Originally posted by Dock6
It's my cynical belief that Turkey will be accepted for no better reason that this will be to the enormous financial advantage of Big Business.

Of everything I have heard said on this matter I think this is probably the most true.

The more Turks interact on all levels with the West, the more keen they will be maintain mutual respect and co-operation.

But I also feel that this will cause even more out rage in Turkey's hard liners.

It won't happen overnight, but as it's in Turkey's interests to demonstrate secularism rather than as now, to claim it, there's a good chance a new EU broom will sweep away Turkey's hard-liners --- eventually those hard-liners will agree to move with the times, or will have to move elsewhere. I don't feel there's much doubt that Turkey will be accepted sooner rather than later.

yes I would like to think that all of this is so. I just don't feel the hard liners will move with the times or move else where easily. But all in all I think you are right that Turkey will be a member of the EU sooner or later.

The EU is a pathetic organization destined for failure. Why would Turkey want to be a part of this? Some secular fools inside Turkey are looking for the monetary benefits membership in the EU would provide. Turkey should stop trying to become a part of the EU and stick to just playing nice for now.