CU Junior Arrested For Comments About Virginia Tech Gunman, page 2
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reply posted on 19-4-2007 @ 03:19 AM by Infoholic
zerotime - for your post, you may wish to look into the definitions of a threat and a euphemism.
an indication of something impending
threat


the substitution of an agreeable or inoffensive expression for one that may offend or suggest something unpleasant
euphemism


scooler1 - "...While we have no history on this individual, I feel, in light of the VT events, the CU staff took appropriate measures..."

What ever happened to "innocent until proven guilty". That's part of being here in America, whether you like it or not. If you have no history, or precedence of this individual, how can you "assume" these actions to be right?

For the second half of your post, I don't think anyone has suggested that nothing be done about the behaviors of this person. I do believe it has been suggested on numerous occasions that something should have been done... like provide him the "mental heath" help that he obviously deserves and needs. We should count ourselves very lucky that this individual has spoken up, "requesting" help, before something does happen.

As with the individual that acted in the VT shootings... as evidence is coming more readily available... that person "cried for help" and he was ignored. Those are the ones you should be pissed at... not me.

This man (or anyone else for that matter) has the right... a freedom of speech. Of which this individual has obviously exercised, speeking clearly... asking for help. Not asking to be jailed for his "imbalance".


reply posted on 19-4-2007 @ 01:56 PM by Harassment101
Hi Muaddib.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Have you thought that some of the over reactions of the last situation might have lead to where things are?

Just like in this case, they arrested some college kid for saying what he feels, because those around him received it as a threat. Now he is going to be marked for life, and probably monitored and picked on. Placed on some list to be monitored. There over-reaction could well lead this kick to become targeted and perceived as a threat, causing people to treat him like a threat, or a nut job, or the next school shooter, till low and behold prophesy fulfilled.


In the case of the last guy, apparently after he wrote the oh so shocking school plays he was sent for psychological evaluation.
youtube.com...

The link above is to the shocking school plays. Has no one in that class read Stephen King. He has written way more disturbing stuff.



Hi xmotex.

The idea is not to shoot the local bully, but to put the blame on the locally bully for creating hostile climates that could lead to another columbine. I bet if more people put the blame on the bullies, instead of going along with the bullies, we would see less of these tragedies.



Hi niteboy82.

Your situation is a really good example of what I am talking about. Now what if you have been ostrasised as the troubled next school shooter, instead of the suicidal troubled kid? They could have screwed you up to the point, where you might have taken violent actions. I am just glad you got out, and lived to tell the tale of highschool.


Hi Muaddib.

The only reason anyone should kill a bully is if the bully is trying to kill you


The bully does kill these people. They kill their souls one comment at a time, till these people forget their humanity, become disconnected and then you have rip conditions for the actions we saw this week. We have to understand that words are like sharp little knives, one stab at a time, no one bleeds externally, but they die a little bit inside with each hit, till there is nothing left of them and that barrier that humanity that might have prevented something like this from happening is gone.


Hi Vinadetta.

The fear does control our lives. The media should be ticked for trying to scare us, and then brainwashing us about what to think every-time one of these situations happens.

I do think it is over paranoia. I also think that they are over reacting to some things, and then sending everyone into a stupid frenzy, which they are taking out and acting out on others.

I live your avatar. Good movie.


HI Infoholic.

Arrested on suspicion. Welcome to the new police state everyone. Remember think nice thoughts, think nice thoughts.


HI zerotime.

Yep his comment must mean he has a screw loose, you nailed it on the head. Let's take him out of school, lock him up in an institution and never ask why he would say that or feel that way. In our new society, it's think nice thought, speak no evil, hear no evil and if you do report it.

I feel really sorry for society, because we don't see that our actions are often what cause such situations.


Hi scooler1

And what if by taking these extreme measures they create the same problem? Then what? No one would feel the least bit responsible is what. Because you are no longer taught personal responsibility as a society.


Hi xmotex.

Be careful what you say, your post might be construed or perceived as threatening and in the new police state you might get dragged in for questioning. I am only half joking. Today offline or online, you have to be careful with what you say, and even write.

Just by showing humanity and saying you understood or would not blame this kid for what he did, you could be putting yourself in danger, and this is what the society has come down to.

If more people had empathy and understanding in society today, I think we would have less tragedies.


reply posted on 19-4-2007 @ 02:03 PM by zerotime
Originally posted by Infoholic
zerotime - for your post, you may wish to look into the definitions of a threat and a euphemism.
an indication of something impending
threat



I looked it up. The problem is that you only picked the definition that you wanted to put down. There were more options available for the word "threat." Why didn’t you list the other ones?

1 : an expression of intention to inflict evil, injury, or damage
Cho said, "I am mad enough to kill my classmates."

That fits the definition of a threat - expression of intention to inflict evil, injury, or damage.

This kid sat in a classroom and let the entire class know that he was mad enough to kill them all over something that has nothing to do with him. At that point anyone around this person, (students, teachers, etc) should have taken this as a serious threat or at least a serious warning sign. No?

IMO this guy is probably a borderline case. He could be a very troubled person who needs help or like I said before just some guy who wanted some attention. Either way, he got both.




[edit on 19-4-2007 by zerotime]


reply posted on 19-4-2007 @ 04:25 PM by Infoholic
scooler1:

Absolutely not. I would feel better if his problems were addressed before it came to that. Hence, he needed to be helped psychologically before everyone jumps off the deep in a paranoid reaction in light of current events. That seems to be the answer these days, which was my point in the opening post... arrest first, ask questions later. This is not a police state where people will automatically be arrested for "thought crimes".

Again, look at my last post with the differences between euphemisms and threats. There is a difference. The "euphemism" is a way of relating to something else, whether or not it offends. Certainly you won't get away with making "direct threats" to the White House, the President, or anyone else for that matter, and in this case the individual in question is being incarcerated for stating a euphemism, not a threat.

Saying "I want to kill people *for whatever reason*" is not a direct threat to anyone. You are correct, it was a sign. Did they act excessively? Sure did. They acted on paranoia. There was nothing rational about the reaction to this persons statement. It is most definitely a "cry for help".

Quoting Spock?... I'm dumbfounded.

Quoting the founding fathers of America:

Children should be educated and instructed in the principles of freedom. -John Adams




zerotime:

I posted the pertinent definition due to the statements made by the individual. Back to the article, here's what he had said... according to the official police report.

Karson said he was "angry about all kinds of things, from the fluorescent light bulbs to the unpainted walls, and it made him angry enough to kill people," multiple witnesses told police, according to a police report.
source


He did not say: "I'm going to kill you." for which that would have been a threat, and a direct threat to boot. He said: "I'm angry enough to kill." which is not a threat, nor a direct threat, nor an indirect threat to anyone. That was a euphemism.

Here's an example of a threat, for the definition given: an expression of intention to inflict evil, injury, or damage.... "I'm going to kick your ass." "I'm going to shoot everyone."

Here's an example of a euphemism, for the definition given: the substitution of an agreeable or inoffensive expression for one that may offend or suggest something unpleasant.... "I'm so mad I could spit nails." "I'm so mad I could kill."

This individuals statement was not comforting to say the least, and that has never been an issue with anyone discussing it. But, not in the least, was his comment as officially reported by the police or eyewitness, a threatening comment.

This article, as reported, is a completely paranoid reaction to previous events. We cannot simply walk around, infringing on someone's rights simply because we're paranoid about the actions of one.


reply posted on 20-4-2007 @ 02:11 PM by zerotime
I'm not sure why CO seems to be the hotbed for crazy kids that want to kill their classmates but here is another one.

www.9news.com...

BOULDER - The University of Colorado Police Department arrested a male student Thursday night after finding an array weapons in his dorm room.

12-guage shotgun, several hundred rounds of ammunition, magazine clips for weapons and a 12 inch knife.


reply posted on 20-4-2007 @ 02:21 PM by Vipassana
Originally posted by zerotime
I'm not sure why CO seems to be the hotbed for crazy kids that want to kill their classmates but here is another one.

www.9news.com...

BOULDER - The University of Colorado Police Department arrested a male student Thursday night after finding an array weapons in his dorm room.

12-guage shotgun, several hundred rounds of ammunition, magazine clips for weapons and a 12 inch knife.



THis is crazyness. I actually go to CU, and know the kid in this article. He went to my high school but this is the first time I've heard of this. HAHA i used to play football with this kid when I was like 12. Unbelieveable.

As for the kid who said stuff in class. All i can tell you is what I heard from this girl in my sociology class. She said the kid isnt an outcast, but that he did like to say random stuff all the time. She said he crossed the line on this one, which i totally agree with.
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