I forgot to add, schizophrenic...(why don't I see Jesus in my sleep?), precious...

[edit on 30-4-2007 by chissler]

Originally posted by SkyWay

Originally posted by thehumbleone
...they pretend to be gay because they think it is cool, this is true among teenagers.

Sad commentary on youth,

Yes, people should just be themselves.

This is another strong indication that if the enemies of America will just be patient this country will self-destruct before long.

People doing things just to be cool will not lead to the down fall of western society, but people making dumb statements like

Originally posted by SkyWay
Homosexuals are more like demons than like angels.

Will. In that one statement you dismissed years of advancement of knowledge and in place put a medieval mindset. This unfortunately has to a certain degree caught on in North America. As I write this there are people who are fighting to remove evolution form schools and teach something called intelligent design. With idiot things like this being fought over we will lose our scientific advantage over the rest of the world and we will end up being behind everyone. So you are right all our enemies have to do is wait for people like you to win out and we will fall.


[edit on 30-4-2007 by Mr Mxyztplk]

HIV/AIDS is not even what most people in the Alternate Health movement think it is. It is a contribution of many things including poppers, starvation, vaccines and AZT etc.

Mod Edit: Removed Quoted Text.

[edit on 1-5-2007 by chissler]

The greatest perversion is to misuse and ignore the greatest gift we evolved/were created with; the thing that defines us as a unique species on this earth-our capacity for intelligent, logical, rational thought. Making stupid, bigoted statements is an affront to our creator whether that be a god or the universe as saying such things relies not on our brain and higher cortical centers, but on raw anger, hate and emotion, attributes that any reptile has in abundance. In other words, we reduce ourselve to level of primitive animals. Think about it skyway...

Lets have a truce here; I won't attack you for your religious beliefs and you keep your comments, if you make any further ones, within the realm of science and data you can back up, not your religious beliefs. That is what I asked people to do when I started the thread. And I started this thread. Thanks for your cooperation.

[edit on 30-4-2007 by j_kalin]

Originally posted by j_kalin
The greatest perversion is to misuse and ignore the greatest gift we evolved/were created with; the thing that defines us as a unique species on this earth-our capacity for intelligent, logical, rational thought. Making stupid, bigoted statements is an affront to our creator whether that be a god or the universe as saying such things relies not on our brain and higher cortical centers, but on raw anger, hate and emotion, attributes that any reptile has in abundance. In other words, we reduce ourselve to level of primitive animals.

Your view is disordered and incomplete on the inferior qualities that reduce some people to the "level of primitive animals." Add to that list obssessive and morbid sexual abuse and perversion and you will have a more accurate depiction of animal behaviour in humans. Maniacal sexual indulgence is the most primitive of animal behaviour because it is blindly concerned with purely animal/physical activity. This is the morbid condition of the homosexual, and in a wider sense, this reduces homosexuals to a condition LOWER than animals, because even animals are not enslaved by sex. They simply use sex as a way of survival of the species. After their season for procreation has passed animals move onto other things.

However, the homosexual is chronically indulging in the most deranged and appalling sexual abuses. Even animals don't do that. SO WE CAN CONCLUDE THAT HOMOSEXUALITY IS ACTUALLY SUB-ANIMAL BEHAVIOUR, and not merely primitive. Homosexuals have to struggle just to bring their behaviour UP to the level of animals. It is a very sad sight to see human beings in such a morally decrepit condition. I pity you.



[edit on 1-5-2007 by SkyWay]

What can I say to that. This thread is called "Why do gays exist." Not "what are my personal feelings toward homosexuals." Please stick to the topic. For your information I will copy my initial post since you have not read it apparently.

Here you go:

Originally posted by j_kalin
Welcome to this thread. I would ask that we keep this discussion focused on legitimate, logical discussion and keep religion out of it. I am interested in the fact-based conclusions or logical inferences of the ATS community on this interesting subject. I will start with a few of my own observations and tentative conclusions and hope this sets the tone for the rest of this discussion:

1. Male homosexuality is present in all cultures of humans, even those who had no contact with more literate, "civilized" cultures until recently (Amerindians, Australian Aborigines, New Guinea) as well as the more "advanced" western/asian/arabic/african cultures.

2. Homosexuality is present in all mammals and even birds; I am not sure about reptiles/insects, indicating that it is a trait that evolution considers SO IMPORTANT AND VITAL for the survival of the GROUP that it is selected for via the relatives of the homosexual animal as we can assume the homosexual animal doesn't reproduce very efficiently. Twin studies have shown that there is a strong but not 100% correlation between genes and gay orientation in males, though not in females. Other studies have demonstrated physical differences in the gay male brain vs the heterosexual male brain, indicating a bilogical basis for homosexuality in men.


3. If evolution was only concerned about direct reproductive success, there would be no homosexuals since they don't reproduce directly, at least not as frquently as heterosexual men do. Even a tiny advantage in reproduction will quickly annihilate the less advantageous genes of a competing animal and rapidly spread in the population.

4. Human cultures seem to have a built-in anti-gay bias or at most a tacit tolerance, but never a total idealism and acceptance of the homosexual. I wonder if this isn't nature's/evolutions way of keeping enough gays in the "closet" so that at least some will be forced to have sex with women and reproduce and thus keep this valuable trait in the gene pool?

5. What could be so valuable that it would give a group of animals or humans an advantage over other groups that don't have this trait of periodic gayness in males? I submit it is a sort of natural "worker caste". I think it is analogous to the majority of honeybee drones who are non-reproducing males that defend the queen and thereby keep the hive from being destroyed by other raiding bee hives, or the worker bee females who don't reproduce at all.

Human equivalents would be soldiers who could fight without worrying about the family back home, and allowing the breeding males to stay home and protect the kids/wife. This was considered an ideal back in Plato's time. Gay men would presumably be a better fighting force than straight men in that they would have a sexual bond with each other that might cause them to fight more fiercely. A simpler benefit would be added labor and food procuring ability as well as defense of the tribe/family without adding the burden of more babies to feed. For example, most gay men that I know of spend a lot of time helping out parents and siblings, spending time with nephews/nieces and doing things that the busy parents don't have time for. I think this helps the kids develop better and therefore helps the kids survive and reproduce the gay mans genes via his siblings.

I am sure there are other perspectives on this subject. I believe that evolution is such a harsh selector of valuable traits and eliminator of undesirable traits that there are no "mistakes" in any organism. Everything exists exactly as it has to be to survive and reproduce in it's environment, including us. It just stands to reason that there is a logical reason that gays exist. I have no bias on this subject. As a physician, I believe virtually evrything about us, including our behaviors, is genetically programmed at birth.

[edit on 1-5-2007 by j_kalin]

Don't know if this has been said already, but...

I had a genetics professor who had an interesting view on being gay. He said that being must have a biological significance that we haven't figured out yet. He likened this to sickle cell anemia; sickle cell patients are resistant to malaria, and this is thought to explain the retention of the sickle cell gene. So, being gay has a genetic benefit that is currently undiscovered.

He went on to say that natural selection should have weeded out gays (not to be insensitive to gay people, just saying) because being gay is quite detrimental to your fitness. Well, nearly all gay people have no fitness, as they don't have children. So, natural selection should get rid of behaviors that stop people from reproducing; real talk, if everyone were gay, we would go extinct.

Just wanted to put that out there, if it hasn't been said already.