What would you have donne

This trend of school shootings is really begining to take a toll on me, first of all all these people that got killed did not all have to die.

The problem is people are too afraid to take action now a days, unfortunatly there are few people that have enough courage to do something in this kinds of situations.

I for one if i would have been there i would have tried at least to get him first just wait for him around a corner and wham bash him with a bat or soething and kill his murdering ass in the proccess yeah sure i'd b putting my life at risk but considering that he might shoot me in the back while i'm running away i'd rather just try to kill him first. after all its first defense, call me crazy if you want to but i'm not scared of guns i'm scared of morons with guns and he was defenetly one of them.

obviously he was a big wimp or else he wouldnt have used guns so anyone that confronted his ass would have overcomed this guy. he was a social reject with no friends from what the reports say and e probably had allready decided to comit suicide he just didnt want to go out alone.

i for one would have tried to do something what about you?


Please do not circumvent the censors, no matter how apt a description the profane word might be.
Thank you.

[edit on 17-4-2007 by The Vagabond]

It's very easy to say what we would have done in a specific situation but reality if often much different. The fact is no one knows what we would have done and unless confronted with that type of situation we'll never really know. Also just because you react one way one time that in no way guarantees that you will always react the same way.

I would like to believe that I would take action but once again I hope to never have to find out.

Originally posted by gallopinghordes
It's very easy to say what we would have done in a specific situation but reality if often much different. The fact is no one knows what we would have done and unless confronted with that type of situation we'll never really know. Also just because you react one way one time that in no way guarantees that you will always react the same way.

I would like to believe that I would take action but once again I hope to never have to find out.

this is the kind of thinking i'm talking about, what people need to do is be more aware of what is happening around them, thats the only way that you can react in time to whats going on around you. take driving for example when you are driving most people are aware of all the cars around them so that when that old beater starts to swerve into your lane you might be able to avoid a car crash.

now a days people are too busy planning their day or thinking about tomorrow rather than living in the present. sure you do have to plan for the future but you must watch were you're stepping at the same time.

if i hear some shots being fired around close by and i might be able to do something about it why run away. i've been in this position before but it wasnt televised like so i was at my airforce base when some MP got drunk and begun to shoot at people. there was a guy that was 10 feet away from him who would have got shot had i not yelled that guy and got shot at in the process.

In my own experience I've learned that people with guns are intimidated by people who stand up to them. If it was me in the situation I would have sprinted to him and broke his neck as fast as I could.

I'm 220 lbs. 5'11, and 8% body fat. (body fat used to get a better description) If this kid had seen someone like that running full speed towards him do you think he would freak out?

People with a gun expect everyone else to duck down and run away. If you give him something unexpected he's going to react differently. I don't mind getting shot and killed as long as I had saved everyone else in the school.

.02

Originally posted by razor1000
obviously he was a big pus** or else he wouldnt have used guns so anyone that confronted his ass would have overcomed this guy. he was a social reject with no friends from what the reports say

Nothing judgmental about you, is there. There's more to this story than meets the eye.

Why was he pissed at the rich kids? Who were the charlatans he wrote about? Did the plays he wrote contain elements of fact?

I wouldn't be surprised if they did. It's very possible that this guy was abused and did not know how to deal with it. It's pretty obvious he felt betrayed. LE needs to do some digging for the motive(s).

Incidentally, all this talk about "I'm big" and "I'd have done this or that" is crap. The only time you know what you're going to do at the opposite end of a gun is when you're already in that position.

I was a US Marine and I don't have the foggiest clue what I would have done. It depends entirely too much on the situation.

Sure it's easy to say, "I'd see him and he wouldn't see me, and I'd quickly make a garotte out of my shoelace and hide around the corner and wait for him" or whatever... or "he'd be lining the class up against the wall to execute us, and I'd count 8 shots, then I'd rush him while he was grabbing for a clip"...

but when you're there, with limited information, with limited knowledge about the guy, not even to mention your nerves, depending on how familiar you are with extremely stressful situations and how they affect your thinking... it's a whole different ballgame.


There is only one thing I can be absolutely sure about of my own reaction to that situation, no matter what the variables are.... I'd be swearing a lot and I'd really really want a cigarette.

It's easy to point and shoot, but the fact that he had to reload and continue shooting shows that he knew what he was doing. I bet he had planned that day months before he even started preparing.

Unless you been on the opposite end of a gun, I wouldn't expect anyone to do anything brave. Except I'm not the kind of person thats going to sit around and watch something like that happen to innocent people.

There is brave, and there is idiocy. I consider myself an idiot and I would have done everything I said I would have in my last post. I'm not green.

Originally posted by Landis

Originally posted by razor1000
obviously he was a big pus** or else he wouldnt have used guns so anyone that confronted his ass would have overcomed this guy. he was a social reject with no friends from what the reports say

Nothing judgmental about you, is there. There's more to this story than meets the eye.

Why was he pissed at the rich kids? Who were the charlatans he wrote about? Did the plays he wrote contain elements of fact?

I wouldn't be surprised if they did. It's very possible that this guy was abused and did not know how to deal with it. It's pretty obvious he felt betrayed. LE needs to do some digging for the motive(s).

Incidentally, all this talk about "I'm big" and "I'd have done this or that" is crap. The only time you know what you're going to do at the opposite end of a gun is when you're already in that position.

nah i'm just saying it takes guts to go at it with your fists not with a gun

Originally posted by The Vagabond
I was a US Marine and I don't have the foggiest clue what I would have done. It depends entirely too much on the situation.

Sure it's easy to say, "I'd see him and he wouldn't see me, and I'd quickly make a garotte out of my shoelace and hide around the corner and wait for him" or whatever... or "he'd be lining the class up against the wall to execute us, and I'd count 8 shots, then I'd rush him while he was grabbing for a clip"...

but when you're there, with limited information, with limited knowledge about the guy, not even to mention your nerves, depending on how familiar you are with extremely stressful situations and how they affect your thinking... it's a whole different ballgame.


There is only one thing I can be absolutely sure about of my own reaction to that situation, no matter what the variables are.... I'd be swearing a lot and I'd really really want a cigarette.

what did u do in the marines?

Originally posted by 1Crisis
It's easy to point and shoot, but the fact that he had to reload and continue shooting shows that he knew what he was doing. I bet he had planned that day months before he even started preparing.

Unless you been on the opposite end of a gun, I wouldn't expect anyone to do anything brave. Except I'm not the kind of person thats going to sit around and watch something like that happen to innocent people.

There is brave, and there is idiocy. I consider myself an idiot and I would have done everything I said I would have in my last post. I'm not green.

i'm with you i would w8 for someone to just come and kill me at least if you want to run away zig zag you know

We'd all like to imagine ourselves being heroic: that's our survival instincts in play.

But as they say, it's pointless being 'wise after the fact'.

Everyone reacts differently in different circumstances and individuals also react differently, depending upon the circumstances.

Imagine being one of a crowd. You hear noises. Guns in real life don't sound the same as in movies. Many of those killed and injured may not have realised that what they were hearing was a gun. They may not have even realised they'd been shot.

There would have been panic: people running and falling and shouting and screaming.

No-one would have expected a gun-man to be amongst them, so their first reactions would have been of surprise, confusion, disbelief, terror.

Regardless of what the untrained person might want to believe, we're often not heroic at all. It's a natural instinct -- a survival instinct which WORKS -- to hit the ground or hide behind something.

At the end of the day, most people would vastly prefer to be alive !

Grown men have cried and shook and sobbed like babies when confronted by the unexpected and lethal. That's perfectly normal. Again, life and the movies are two different things. Even in battle, men have literally shat themselves in fear --- and run --- and hid --- and betrayed their friends in order to hold onto just one more minute of life.

We can be brave in one instance and useless in another. It's a very rare individual who reacts 'bravely' all the time --- very rare.

As for the shoelace idea --- better leave that for the James Bond movies where everything is scripted, rehearsed two dozen times and everyone knows beforehand that it's just 'pretend'.

If you wanted to take that guy out you'd do better with a blunt instrument --- maybe a chair. But you'd need to be quick ! And you'd need to be LUCKY ! Because unlike the movies, I doubt he'd stand in choreographed idleness with a stoooopid look on his face while you flexed your muscles, clenched your jaw, said something mean and herioc and THEN smashed in his skull.

Originally posted by Dock6
Regardless of what the untrained person might want to believe, we're often not heroic at all. It's a natural instinct -- a survival instinct which WORKS -- to hit the ground or hide behind something.

At the end of the day, most people would vastly prefer to be alive !

Completely agree. The only way we could get an idea of how we might personally react is if we've been in a similar experiences and even then there's no way to be sure as you can't predict someone else's actions. Fight or flee thing.. personally I'd hope I'd be able to run or hide.

Originally posted by razor1000
what did u do in the marines?

I was an infantryman. But the advantage to being an infantryman is that you have a rifle.

I don't mean to upset anyone who is sure they know what they would do, but my take is that there are just too many things that depend on the situation for anyone to be sure what they would do unless they are actually in that situation then and there.


I think that if somebody was in arms reach of me and didn't have the gun pointed right at me, (or if they did and were about to shoot) I'd make a move. I can't conceive of any reason not to that might deter me. Plus I do have a distant experience with that situation, kind of. When I was in elementary school, I got into it with a few guys and one of them had this pretty realistic looking BB gun. I suckerpunched him and grabbed it, thinking it was real, then when all it did was plink at him I got the snot kicked out of me. (side note, the lesson there is that kids are stupid and should probably be kept away from guns)

Now on the other hand, I know exactly, for sure, what would happen if I was sitting here at my computer next to the window and I suddenly heard a flurry of gunfire at close range... I'd hid the friggin floor, move very quickly down the hallway, and call the cops while checking on my family... That was a couple of months ago. I like my neighbors and when possible I'll protect them, but until I hear somebody trying to get into my house, getting the gun out is secondary to seeing if anybody in my house has a sucking chest wound. All was well... as it turned out my neighbors both started it and got the better end of it (I hate this neighborhood).

But although I think I know what I would do in some situations, there's no being sure till you've done it. What is the layout of the area where this is happening, how far apart are we, what kind of gun, does he look like a fish, how likely is it that I'm dead if I don't act, what chemicals are being dumped on my neuroreceptors by the millions of years worth of evolution that are all designed to make me do whatever is most likely to help me survive this situation with my reproductive system in tact (sounds funny, but that's exactly what fight or flight is for when you get down to it)?

Ive looked down the barrel a gun both alone and in a group.
When youre the lone victim I think youre more likely to defend yourself. When in youre in a group you tend to look to someone else. I this is called the "bystander" effect. The more victims the less likely someone is to step up.

This can be countered by direct pleas for help. Statistically when someone is speciffically asked to help they will. Especially when eye contact is made.

P.S. its no fun being at the business end of a gun. Its like dead air serious time and all you hear is the blood thumping in your skull.
I always carry now.

Growing up in London i've never come across guns directly (touch wood) however the growing number of gangs in south london may mean its going to reach my door step sooner than I hope. Anyways, i've been in many situations against people on nights out, coming home, down the boozer (live in a Millwall area, loads of bushwhackers about ) etc where it's just a tear up, no weapons involved. The way I see it is you have to take control of yourself and just go for it if you can't logically see a way out at the time. Football hooligans always talk about this, being outnumbered 100 to 1 and still having a go, that's why they do it, to live on the adrenaline. Anyways, i've gone completely away from the OP's point. As people above have mentioned, we'd all like to think we'd be have a go heroes, but in reality it can mean death in many cases, as the shootings most likely would have this week. People that carry weapons make me sick anyway, if you can't handle yourself with your fists then you're not a man in my book, and you don't go looking for trouble either, thats the way I see it. Just to say, I most likely would have sh*t myself being in that school, terrible incident, RIP those poor souls who were caught in that maniacs rampage.

I would have talked my way out of it.....Or jumped out a window.

Honestly though - you can't judge people in that situation. There are two modes of action in panic, one is freezing and the other is action, if the majority of people are complying, you're much more likely to comply, as thisguyrighthere pointed out.

It's not a bad strategy in most some situations. Unfortunately when someone is intent on killing you with no rhyme of reason, compliance invites disaster.

In the case of serial killing or mass murder, the psychology generally is one of seeking total compliance from the victim, in which case it only feeds the pathology.

While serial killers tend to be organized and sane in the legal sense of the word, mass murderers are generally people who have slipped into a fugue state of disorganized psychosis.

Both cases have only one real option - die fighting or running.

The first thing that would go through anybodies mind when someone starts shooting a gun is to escape. Especially school kids who are just going to class one minute and than in a life or death situation the next.

No way is anyone going to do anything until they feel safe and calm down from their initial panic, by then it's too late.

Originally posted by ANOK
The first thing that would go through anybodies mind when someone starts shooting a gun is to escape. Especially school kids who are just going to class one minute and than in a life or death situation the next.

No way is anyone going to do anything until they feel safe and calm down from their initial panic, by then it's too late.

i dissagree because a lot of time specially when it comes to parents they will have a reaction to defend their kids, also when you are backed into a corner and there is no way out but to fight it out thats what you have to do. those people who are unable to are the ones that end up dead. i'm not saying to go after him if you have a way out but if you are in a position of life or death then you must do what you can to survive. if this guy is shooting at people the best thing to do is rush him in a small group he will no react in time to kill all of them or maybe not even one. these guys dont have the guts for a frontal confrontation.

^That's fine it's your right to disagree. Next time you are in that sort of situation look me up and tell me how you reacted.

Maybe you are one of the very few people who can think clearly and control your natural desire for self preservation and to run away from a dangerous situation, good for you. But I think 32 kids dead is proof enough of what I said, no?

I know it is probably not manly to admit you'd be scared and want to run, hide, whatever, but it's just automatic Human nature. I think you watch too much TV or something...

Trying to protect your kids, or whatever, is not the same as playing Rambo and trying to take the guy down while dodging bullets.

nah actually between school and work i dont have time for TV.
i'm not claining to be a tough guy ok dont get me wrong i'd be scared but i would try to do what i can to help other people while trying to preserve my own life. you saw the videos this jerk sent to nbc? i mean he was seriously a weak human being his reality shattered and he wanted to hurt people before finally killing himself. i think that if i knew this guy was a time bomb i would have at least kicked him out from school. he was leaving a long trail to indicate there was something wrong with him.