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School shootings

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posted on Apr, 18 2007 @ 08:31 AM
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Originally posted by MystikMushroom
Ive been on 100mg of Zoloft for over 2 years daily...and I have no desire or urges to commit any kind of violent act against anyone.

BTW, Zoloft comes in 25, 50, 100 and 150mg tablets. So i'm taking a relativley high dose.

You're darned right. Its absolutely ridiculous. Next excuse!!!
That guy was a one man army, wasnt he? This is sooooo suspicious, i apologize for my sinicism (sp) and my spelling, but there's much more to this story.




posted on Apr, 18 2007 @ 10:18 AM
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posted on 17-4-2007 @ 05:51 PM (ID:3123571, Post Number: 3,023,681)

Is security going to increase in educational institutions?

I watched the incident in the news bout the tragic events a Virginia Tech, and got to thinking if the US government will increase the security in all schools colleges and universities in the states.

As a result, I have the following doubts, which I hope those from the US might try to answer?

Would this be a good thing or a bad thing?

I read on infowars.com, that armed police have already been entering schools and stopping buses for random checks.
Is increased security and more police presence going to be the way to envelope america's children, in short, americas future gen?

The right to bear arms, now does this mean students will arm themselves in an attempt to be taken by the fearmongering going on right now?

If the NWO exists, why didn´t they take this opportunity to ban all weapons? (I know of the Second Amendment, but some laws are chaleenging even the amendments.)



posted on Apr, 18 2007 @ 11:09 AM
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Heres a nice graphic on Rense main page that reinforces my thoughts on antidepressants and violence.
A picture's worth a thousand words





posted on Apr, 18 2007 @ 11:12 AM
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i've been on prozac and yes, it plays games with your mind..i was on it for about 6 months.

i felt like killing myself and others, no one could speak to me without me shouting at them.

best thing was when i no longer had to take them.



posted on Apr, 18 2007 @ 11:20 AM
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Sympathies to the victims of the crime.

He was obviously a demented kid, who suffered abuse in his life, I don't think that implies government mind control ops. He was from South Korea, where there is a great deal of resentment for the economic distinctions that left their country divided - hence his ravings against debauchery. So I must retract my earlier somewhat calloused generalization of American culture - however it sprung from the sad statistic that America has more gun inspired homicides than other nations whose people carry weapons.



posted on Apr, 18 2007 @ 11:41 AM
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Originally posted by infinite
i've been on prozac and yes, it plays games with your mind..i was on it for about 6 months.

i felt like killing myself and others, no one could speak to me without me shouting at them.

best thing was when i no longer had to take them.


Yeah, new generation antidepressant meds like this are WAY too unpredictable. Too many docs shun good old benzos, and prescribe these drugs that make people snap. What's worse, having a patient abuse xanax or cleaning up all these crime scenes? Same goes for new sleep aids, like Ambien and such, they don't work near as well as valium or xanax and people get up and drive in their sleep and wake up feeling very wierd, if you even sleep at all.



posted on Apr, 18 2007 @ 01:57 PM
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Ya I used take ambien and one night i did just that and dont even remember. I als had a very strange reaction that gave me mild hallucinations
i know that sounds strange and I dont know anybody else that has ever had that happen to them. I take lunesta now, its not as good as the old benzos like you mentioned but it doesnt affect me like ambien did.
Prozac got a very bad reputation pretty early in its life, it was the first SSRI type that i know of and people way back in the 80s started committing suicide really quick after starting treatment.
Somebody mentioned that this was "making excuses" for the shooter but then you go on to say something like he was just demented or crazy but to me thats more of a cop out than what Im saying.
Doctors and big pharm companies share a responsibility for people committing suicide or going "psycho but they just keep pouring drugs on peoples problems.
When my son was about 5 he was very hyper and one day while at MY doctor for something, I brought my son with me. He was in the office jumping around and stuff like any other hyper kid.
My doctor then said, "your son has ADHD and wrote a prescription for him. The script he wrote for him was for a HUGE bottle of Ritalin and my now X-wife went and filled it despite my opposition and tried to start dosing him with it. I poured out the entire bottle without giving him a single dose, now he is a perfectly normal and very intelligent 13 year old boy.
My point is, these doctors continue to pour drugs into peoples bodies despite these drugs being known to cause suicide and causing people to go psychotic.
This guy apparently did have these types of thoughts for years but not acting on these negative thoughts. No, he doesnt act on these thoughts UNTIL he starts taking antidepressants, the same thing was true for one or both of the Columbine shooters. These drugs seem to be the bridge that turns fantasy into reality for some people.



posted on Apr, 18 2007 @ 02:35 PM
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Originally posted by Kr0n0s
Ya I used take ambien and one night i did just that and dont even remember. I als had a very strange reaction that gave me mild hallucinations
i know that sounds strange and I dont know anybody else that has ever had that happen to them. I take lunesta now, its not as good as the old benzos like you mentioned but it doesnt affect me like ambien did.


Yeah, ambien is worthless for me, I have to take 2 ambien cr's and I'm lucky if I get a couple hours sleep but wake up feeling like crap, I only hallucinated the first time I took it, lol.



When my son was about 5 he was very hyper and one day while at MY doctor for something, I brought my son with me. He was in the office jumping around and stuff like any other hyper kid.
My doctor then said, "your son has ADHD and wrote a prescription for him. The script he wrote for him was for a HUGE bottle of Ritalin and my now X-wife went and filled it despite my opposition and tried to start dosing him with it. I poured out the entire bottle without giving him a single dose, now he is a perfectly normal and very intelligent 13 year old boy.


That's good, I have a 5 year old with "ADHD" (normal hyper arse kid) as well, I'd never put him on anything.



My point is, these doctors continue to pour drugs into peoples bodies despite these drugs being known to cause suicide and causing people to go psychotic.


Right, I can't believe they are even still FDA approved. Murderous rampages are FAR worse than a few people abusing "happy pills". They need to ban those sketchy drugs...



posted on Apr, 18 2007 @ 04:46 PM
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Here's a little nugget regarding a Top Secret facility in the foothills near Blacksburg from www.trance-formation.com ;


From Mark & Cathy - April 16, 2007
Hi ... sadly ... though predictably ... it is major D.C. diversion time again to focus folks away from what Congress and the Executive branch are infighting about today: More $ for the wars being waged against countries that have never done anything against the US.

Below this intro are some direct quotes from our book "ACCESS DENIED"...about a tiny little town in Virginia ... Blacksburg we felt strongly would eventually become "news"!

WHY.... because Blacksburg houses (underground in the side of a local Blacksburg mountain!) the best kept US government's ABOVE TOP SECRET laboratory for developing/applying (as in Cathy's case) such weapons such as human robotic mind control programming.

Ask yourself... "how ironic" that a tiny little town, as disclosed about in ACCESS DENIED in Virginia could HOST the worst school massacre in US history on a day of extreme importance that a so called "showdown between Congress and the Pentagon/Executive Branch" over the war funding and pulling our troops out ... to most likely divert the people's attention away from what is being perpetrated against all of u.s.

PLEASE consider why we entitled this chapter (22) (your) "NEED-TO-KNOW"!

Please, we beg of you ... consider today ... do it now ... strongly recommending our book "ACCESS DENIED For Reasons Of National Security" to everyone on your mailing list as a MUST READ NOW ... as they have a "need-to-know the facts that support why we include such "notable mention" of Blacksburg, Va., population 48,595 minus 31.

From "ACCESS DENIED For Reasons OF National Security" , chapter 22, page 160, 2nd edition

Cathy: What’s DARPA?

Mark: Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency[1]. It’s the most Top Secret special weapons development lab in the world.

Cathy: I’m glad I don’t know about that one.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From "ACCESS DENIED For Reasons OF National Security" , chapter 22, page 161, 2nd edition

Below is the exact recorded dialog between Mark & Cathy while driving to a Washington D.C. speaking engagement.

Mark: You’ve talked about, only not by name. It’s in a sleepy little town in Virginia.

Cathy: Oh, that place, I shuddered. I guess I didn’t Need-to-Know the name when I was there. Isn’t it called Blackbeard or Blackbird or something like that?

Mark: Keep looking until you see a road sign in memory.

Cathy: Blacksburg!

Mark: Yes! I was aware of it when I was couriering file tapes for Ampex. My perception of DARPA is that it holds the key to what is eroding the soul of America- and the world. Everything I know may still be classified.

Cathy: Then I won’t ask you what you saw. I said, aware that laws of Sedition could result in his imprisonment if anyone found out he was talking.

(footnote on page 161) [1] Wear anti-virus firewalls if/when seeking further information online regarding DARPA!

Thank you, for your time to read this and pass it along to everyone you know ... and for your help to reach ones who are not so well informed as you.

Peace,
Mark & Cathy



posted on Apr, 18 2007 @ 05:02 PM
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I hear a lot of talk here that equates freedom with owning a gun. I have never owned a gun, touched a gun and I have no interest in ever having anything to do with a gun. Yet I remain free and fortunate enough to live in Canada where I do not fear, to the same degree, the threat of being killed by a gun wielding mentally ill person. This guy had obvious and public mental health problems and still obtained numerous guns. I would argue that those guns the Americans value so much have enslaved them in fear and paranoia. Live by the gun, die by the gun. That's not freedom folks - that's freaking nuts. That's not civilization, that's a jungle and Guerrilla Warfare. Perhaps civil war.



posted on Apr, 18 2007 @ 05:37 PM
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For those who are unaware it was a questionable shooting in Port Arthur of 35 people that jump started the Aussie gov's move to get guns out of the publics hands. Same schnit, differrent a$$.

www.shootersnews.addr.com...



posted on Apr, 18 2007 @ 07:27 PM
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Whos enslaved by paranoia? I'm not, nobody in my family is and no one that I've met is either. You dont have a clue what you're talking about and frankly, since you're Canadian, I really dont see how it's your business.
If I remember correctly, there have been shootings in Canada which is "gun free" and other Police State Countries where guns are outlawed. Remember Scotland some years ago?
There have been guns in my family since I can remember, the first weapon I shot was my dads .38 service revolver when I was about 7-8 years old.
More people die from drunk drivers than they do from gunshots each year.
Judging by the tone and content of your post, id say youre a more likely candidate for mental illness than any of those that you suggest are.



Originally posted by Thinker_1
I hear a lot of talk here that equates freedom with owning a gun. I have never owned a gun, touched a gun and I have no interest in ever having anything to do with a gun. Yet I remain free and fortunate enough to live in Canada where I do not fear, to the same degree, the threat of being killed by a gun wielding mentally ill person. This guy had obvious and public mental health problems and still obtained numerous guns. I would argue that those guns the Americans value so much have enslaved them in fear and paranoia. Live by the gun, die by the gun. That's not freedom folks - that's freaking nuts. That's not civilization, that's a jungle and Guerrilla Warfare. Perhaps civil war.


[edit on 18-4-2007 by Kr0n0s]



posted on Apr, 18 2007 @ 07:35 PM
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Originally posted by Thinker_1
I hear a lot of talk here that equates freedom with owning a gun. I have never owned a gun, touched a gun and I have no interest in ever having anything to do with a gun. Yet I remain free and fortunate enough to live in Canada where I do not fear, to the same degree, the threat of being killed by a gun wielding mentally ill person.


You guys have had your problems with guns too. (Remember the marijuana grower nut case that killed a bunch of cops?) I agree with you to a certain degree in regards to freedom and gun ownership. I live in NYC so its basically hard to get a carry permit here. Only the criminals have them. I too don't own one and of course don't equate it to freedom as well, but its the people who do own them who will feel this way. I can't argue that point. Im a smoker so I know what it feels like to have the NON's try to tell me how I should live. I wouldn't tell them how to live their lives just because I don't live that way.

Pie



posted on Apr, 19 2007 @ 01:29 AM
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Originally posted by YIAWETA
Here's a little nugget regarding a Top Secret facility in the foothills near Blacksburg from www.trance-formation.com ;


From Mark & Cathy - April 16, 2007
Hi ... sadly ... though predictably ... it is major D.C. diversion time again to focus folks away from what Congress and the Executive branch are infighting about today: More $ for the wars being waged against countries that have never done anything against the US.

Below this intro are some direct quotes from our book "ACCESS DENIED"...about a tiny little town in Virginia ... Blacksburg we felt strongly would eventually become "news"!

WHY.... because Blacksburg houses (underground in the side of a local Blacksburg mountain!) the best kept US government's ABOVE TOP SECRET laboratory for developing/applying (as in Cathy's case) such weapons such as human robotic mind control programming.

Ask yourself... "how ironic" that a tiny little town, as disclosed about in ACCESS DENIED in Virginia could HOST the worst school massacre in US history on a day of extreme importance that a so called "showdown between Congress and the Pentagon/Executive Branch" over the war funding and pulling our troops out ... to most likely divert the people's attention away from what is being perpetrated against all of u.s.

PLEASE consider why we entitled this chapter (22) (your) "NEED-TO-KNOW"!

Please, we beg of you ... consider today ... do it now ... strongly recommending our book "ACCESS DENIED For Reasons Of National Security" to everyone on your mailing list as a MUST READ NOW ... as they have a "need-to-know the facts that support why we include such "notable mention" of Blacksburg, Va., population 48,595 minus 31.

From "ACCESS DENIED For Reasons OF National Security" , chapter 22, page 160, 2nd edition

Cathy: What’s DARPA?

Mark: Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency[1]. It’s the most Top Secret special weapons development lab in the world.

Cathy: I’m glad I don’t know about that one.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From "ACCESS DENIED For Reasons OF National Security" , chapter 22, page 161, 2nd edition

Below is the exact recorded dialog between Mark & Cathy while driving to a Washington D.C. speaking engagement.

Mark: You’ve talked about, only not by name. It’s in a sleepy little town in Virginia.

Cathy: Oh, that place, I shuddered. I guess I didn’t Need-to-Know the name when I was there. Isn’t it called Blackbeard or Blackbird or something like that?

Mark: Keep looking until you see a road sign in memory.

Cathy: Blacksburg!

Mark: Yes! I was aware of it when I was couriering file tapes for Ampex. My perception of DARPA is that it holds the key to what is eroding the soul of America- and the world. Everything I know may still be classified.

Cathy: Then I won’t ask you what you saw. I said, aware that laws of Sedition could result in his imprisonment if anyone found out he was talking.

(footnote on page 161) [1] Wear anti-virus firewalls if/when seeking further information online regarding DARPA!

Thank you, for your time to read this and pass it along to everyone you know ... and for your help to reach ones who are not so well informed as you.

Peace,
Mark & Cathy




This pushes it over the edge. Now we know exactly what happened. It was purely a government mind control black op, all these things always are.

They even admit he had some government psychiatrist popping him full of prozac, which causes chemical imbalances in the brain.

We know he had multiple-personalities, he referred to himself alot as "question mark", and he really believed it. Classic, this is the classic MO, for mind control victims. They program the mind to have multiple personalities, so the person doesnt know who he really is. In this case, one of his "multiples", as its called by mind control experts, was "question mark" that means its a mystery, he doesnt know who he is. This is so classic, they do it every time with mind control victims.

We know that the son of an FBI agent started the clan that was involved in the Columbine shooting. We know that some of the kids were being psychiatrically treated by a top NASA scientist who was admittedly involved in top secret mind control projects.

We know that 13 people were killed at Columbine, and 33 people were killed here. Two of the most important occult numbers. We know that Virginia and Columbine are both symbolic names for the same thing. Columbine comes from Columbus, which comes from Colomb, which means Dove, and the Venus the Dove aka Queen Semiramus of ancient Babylon, is the main deity dark occultists worship.

Virginia comes from the Virgin Queen, which was the name given to Queen Semiramus. They tell you that Virginia comes from the "virgin queen" Queen Elizabeth the 1st. That woman was no more a virgin than a hollywood hooker! Of course it means the Virgin Queen, Queen Semiramus of Babylon.

Because you have to understand, that the people who control the world are occultists. Dark Occultists. This is not fantasy, you can see the fruits of their dark endevours everyday of the week. The dark people who control the world are all related by blood, and their bloodline can be traced, and it has been, all the way back to ancient Sumeria, aka ancient Babylon. They use alot of ancient sumerian and egyptian symbolism in their secret societies, on their corporate logos, on their television networks, everywhere, they are literally all over the place these symbols!

Anyways, I am digressing. I just wanted to show that this is a pure occult ritual killing, via a government black op mind control program. Not only do they do it for occult reasons, put for political reasons, banning guns.

Now with this new proof, from Cathy Obrien, former mind control victim, and her deprogrammer, that there is a top secret facility in Blacksburg, the same place the shootings took place, where they experiment on mind control. Come on, how can people deny the fact that this was a total black op project meant to empower the State.

Stop categorizing different views from the official line as "conspiracies", that is a mind control technique, dont you see, they use basic mind control in television programming and such, to get you to think the way they want you to think.

[edit on 19-4-2007 by LightWorker13]



posted on Apr, 19 2007 @ 12:55 PM
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Nice work Lightworker, I couldn't agree more.

Mid April seems to be an especially busy time for blood sacrifice.

Waco-April 19th
Oklahoma City- April 19th
Columbine-April 20th

An explaination from John Christian's book Gladiator;

"Much can be said about how these ancient pagan nature feasts dominate the pagan mind. During the Second World War, Hitler changed May Day to [JD: the satanic feast] The Cerialia. At precisely 9 o'clock on the morning of Jewish Passover, April 19th, 1943, the EXACT time that the Cerialia would have been sacrificed in ancient Rome, the Nazis commenced to burn the Jewish Warsaw Ghetto to the ground. Using tanks with flame-throwers -- "a whole burnt offering of a pregnant cow" -- they proceeded to burn men, woment and children. Again, at 9 o'clock in the morning of April 19th, 1993, amazingly, EXACTLY fifty years later, to the day and hour, the Waco, Texas Branch Davidian Complex was burned to the ground -- [again] using tanks and flame-throwers, [again] burning men, women, and children. This time, not by an evil Nazi world leader, but ordered by the Attorney-General and the President of the United States."



posted on Apr, 22 2007 @ 08:42 PM
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Originally posted by Kr0n0s
Whos enslaved by paranoia? I'm not, nobody in my family is and no one that I've met is either. You dont have a clue what you're talking about and frankly, since you're Canadian, I really dont see how it's your business.
You're right that I'm Canadian, THANK GOD, but, and I think you fail to realize that there are some commonalities that travers borders - its called compassion, identity and humanity. But this might be a bit much to digest - its okay.

If I remember correctly, there have been shootings in Canada which is "gun free" and other Police State Countries where guns are outlawed. Remember Scotland some years ago?
Canada? Scotland? Hmmm. There are those borders again. BUT - I think that the score remains at 2000 U.S. - 5 for Canada AND Scotland combined. Congratulations - you win.
There have been guns in my family since I can remember, the first weapon I shot was my dads .38 service revolver when I was about 7-8 years old. Yeahhhhhh - do you have an award somewhere? Maybe a Postal Employee of the Month plaque?
More people die from drunk drivers than they do from gunshots each year. Cite your sources please.
Judging by the tone and content of your post, id say youre a more likely candidate for mental illness than any of those that you suggest are.
Well that was a well thought out response - reflecting the kind of mentality that needs a gun to prove its point. Awesome dude - can you produce a diploma?



Originally posted by Thinker_1
I hear a lot of talk here that equates freedom with owning a gun. I have never owned a gun, touched a gun and I have no interest in ever having anything to do with a gun. Yet I remain free and fortunate enough to live in Canada where I do not fear, to the same degree, the threat of being killed by a gun wielding mentally ill person. This guy had obvious and public mental health problems and still obtained numerous guns. I would argue that those guns the Americans value so much have enslaved them in fear and paranoia. Live by the gun, die by the gun. That's not freedom folks - that's freaking nuts. That's not civilization, that's a jungle and Guerrilla Warfare. Perhaps civil war.


[edit on 18-4-2007 by Kr0n0s]



posted on Apr, 23 2007 @ 01:40 AM
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Of course there is a link between Mass shootings and Gun control. The Australian Government brought in new gun laws within 2 weeks of the Martin Bryant massacre in Tasmania. The shooting had all the same hall marks, eg. mentally unstable loner performs suspiciously high shoot to kill ratio, number of deaths maximised by supposed incompetance etc.

THE REAL ISSUES - GUN CONTROL
www.2012.com.au...

Australia’s PM John Howard is Bush’s lapdog and down here we are NWO guinea pigs. Have you been hearing about mandatory vaccination of young girls with HPV vaccine? Well they’re vaccinating here right now and soon girls will not be able to attend high school without it. Vaccines are part of the NWO population control program.



posted on Apr, 23 2007 @ 11:23 AM
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You know what irritates me is when one group of people of one country bashes the others and then they don't like it. Why can't you people just except that this was a terrible set of events. It was no NWO plot I think the whole notion of that is ridiculous. I am not an idiot so please don't start giving me links to this that and whatever other page about how this is connected to the NWO because that's likely to be garbage.

What you all seem to be doing is either knocking each other about where you come from and about gun controls etc and all that but at the end of that none of this matters. Cho was off his head he was plagued by demons that none of us can remotely comprehend or understand nor would we want them in are heads either. What ever little bit of sanity he had left up to that day went and he lost the plot and took 33 innocent souls with him. A lot of soul searching should be done by us all not only over this but every incident involving gun crimes.

I also get sick of hearing the Americans here (I am not bashing you lot from the states when I say this) Talking about your right to bear arms is going to be taken away from you! I mean for heavens sake get off your gun owning agenda and spare a thought for all the victims who in the states or any where in the else in the world who have died due to a gun being in the wrong hands.

America does have a mental make up in it's population that makes guns glorified now I am saying this from experience of travelling all over Europe and a number of the countries have relaxed laws apart from us over guns. Now what bugs me is take Switzerland for instance. All males from 21-45 are meant to be armed for the sake of the national guard call up. Now that is a small country compared to the US yet per head of population there are little or no serious gun crimes with guns legally held or otherwise.

Turn this problem on it's head and you've got the US that is having shootings happen nearly every day. I have read up 60 children a day are wounded or killed by gun incidents that's just wrong it begs a question what in the American make up mentally makes you as a people always want to settle your disputes when they get out of hand with a gun?

The UK has her own problems with guns and they are by no means gone away no country can say it's not got issues save maybe the Swiss. I don't like how America's glorying of the gun has done your country no favours.

One other reason that so many people in long established countries hate the US is because as a country it's been well known for sticking it's nose in places where it was not wanted and this has angered a lot of people who would prefer it kept out of things with or without UN backing I know the UN is an Illuminati front. But if the world is being pushed towards to some kind of NWO agenda this is surely not the way in which they would intend to do it get some poor kid who was sick and mentally ill to shoot 33 innocent people dead so they can then get a legitimate reason to come and take your guns away from you sorry but that's just stupid and a non starter. I do not think it's brain washing by them or an MK-Ultra but one young man who lost his sanity and took innocent lives with him and then killed himself. Stop trying to pin this on some hidden agenda it's lame it's not working with me and sure won't be working with a lot of people. This was the crime of a mad man and that's all it was.

I apologise about my attack if anyone sees it as being on America but it's really not that I just can't get why some of you will not realise this was a sad isolated incident that should never have happened and Cho should have been given the help he so desperately needed. And as for pinning it on drugs that's just as lame. It was just one lost person who went off the rails and lost his way and that at the end of the day is all it is and nothing more.



posted on Apr, 23 2007 @ 09:15 PM
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Yahoo! Canada Mail

Just heard on Alex Jones, from a caller,
this statement posted on msnbc.com
excerpted from the material Cho sent
them:

"Are you happy now that you have
destroyed my life? Now that you
have stolen everything that you
could from me? Now that you have
gone on a 9/11 on my life like
Osama? Now that you have your
own people like Kim Jong-Il. Now
that you have gone on a hummer
safari on my life like Bush? Are
you happy now?"

This is part of the manifesto that made it to another forum that I belong to.
From this and other news I get the picture that this guy was terrorized, was under some kind of mind control and I am going to guess that he was abused somehow as a child.I heard from the other forum that he was forced to dig his own grave as a child, but I am not able to confirm this. I was in the helping field 14 years ago and his writings make me think of a little girl I did respite care for. She was ritually abused and as a result had 5 personalities. I know that the people who ritually abuse children can trigger the violent personality to come to the surface by using only a word or phrase. The violent personality can virtually become a slave to the handler.
I believe that this was an intentional experiment, a sick reality game that the illuminati like to play.



posted on Apr, 23 2007 @ 11:59 PM
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Svali: "The Freemasons and the Illuminati are hand in glove. I don't care if this steps on any toes, it's a fact. The Masonic temple at Alexandria, Virginia (the city itself was named after Alexandria, Egypt, and is a hotbed of Illuminati activity) is a centre in the Washington, DC area for Illuminati scholarship and teaching. I was taken there at intervals for testing, to step up a level, for scholarship, and high ceremonies. The leaders in this Masonic group were also Illuminists.


Source: www.savethemales.ca...


So, a Masonic temple in Virginia, a coincidence?






[edit on 24-4-2007 by selfless]



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