Originally posted by grover
yeah and I heard students being interviewed saying that he just burst into the rooms and started shooting randomly...so who do you believe? The newspaper or watching students who were there accounting what they witnessed?

I was just saying my source was a newspaper. Sema down.

I think the whole 'lining up' thing was a ploy to make the kid seem that little bit more insane, makes for interesting reading I guess.

Originally posted by Nemithesis
Guns don't kill people, people kill people.

So how did the 32 die then?

A gun is designed to kill. Period. Thats why you have it to protect yourself. It will kill an attacker. And thats why the armed forces moved from swords to firearms, more lethal.

Btw, gun control doesn't always mean taking guns away. Other elements involving having registers of those who own firearms in the States, gun associations working with the law enforcement more. ID checks. And even restrictions to people who are not fit to have a gun. All these examples do not involve disarming the population.

But if you look at what happened at Virginia, its more than just about the availability of guns. Its also about University security and how to prevent from this happening again.

Can we please stop with the "guns don't kill people, people kill people" quote. It's literally been said a thousand times in this thread. It's getting more annoying than Sanjaya.

Peace

You cannot knock the US administration over this.

The reaction of Bush during his statement was enough to show that he was shocked by this. He may not be the best public speaker when it comes to delivering words, but I am sure that he has been moved by this.

Originally posted by infinite
But if you look at what happened at Virginia, its more than just about the availability of guns. Its also about University security and how to prevent from this happening again.

This isn't the first time anything like this has happened.. I've lost count of how many 'shootings' there have been like this in the states. Obviously no lessons have been learnt.

Like I said, after the Dunblane tradegy over here, there was a ban on handguns and small fire-arms or something to that extent. There was a tradegy, and 'action' was taken to try and prevent something similar. There seems to be no 'action' after these school shootings. With the Columbine one you had whatshisname go and do a freaking gun totting rally on how cool guns are. We just would not have stood for anything like that in Dunblane after that happened.

We have had a few laws proposed in this state (Virginia) by our more right wing lawmakers (who have to either pass a stupidity test or fail an IQ test in order to qualify to run for office) to make it legal to carry a concealed weapon into church, bars, schools and government offices... all four are places where a gun, concealed or not is totally out of place. Fortunately none of those proposed laws came even close to passing.

Originally posted by shaunybaby
Like I said, after the Dunblane tradegy over here, there was a ban on handguns and small fire-arms or something to that extent. There was a tradegy, and 'action' was taken to try and prevent something similar. There seems to be no 'action' after these school shootings. With the Columbine one you had whatshisname go and do a freaking gun totting rally on how cool guns are. We just would not have stood for anything like that in Dunblane after that happened.

I remember (lives in the UK).

But we are alot different from the US, we do have a right to bear arms under the bill of rights 1689, but guns were never a powerful constitutional right within the United Kingdom. In the US, you have deep feelings over gun control. Go down to the deep South and mention "gun control" and i'll bet you will be chased out of town. extreme, but true.

Every shooting we have in the UK, we have a gun amnesty and people hand in their guns. We don't feel the need to have guns in the UK and we are extremely supportive of tougher gun control. The UK government is already pushing more tough laws through Parliament after the recent 6-8 shootings in London.

Originally posted by infinite

Originally posted by Nemithesis
Guns don't kill people, people kill people.

So how did the 32 die then?

But if you look at what happened at Virginia, its more than just about the availability of guns. Its also about University security and how to prevent from this happening again.

Yesterday in Michigan a flag pole broke in half due to high winds, toppled down and killed a little girl at an elementary school.

We need to DO SOMETHING about these faulty flag poles! AND these high winds!

"Prevent" that.

That is such sloppy logic as to defy belief. I am really surprised that someone would even consider that a valid argument.

I think that's the point Grover. Sometimes bad stuff happens, and there's no way around it.

What logical anymore? Seems like anyone can state the premises and conclusions and make them valid. Just look at the government and the news media.


But your right the logic doesn't work on that one, but I do understand his point.

Originally posted by grover
That is such sloppy logic as to defy belief. I am really surprised that someone would even consider that a valid argument.

[edit on 17-4-2007 by Realtruth]

that is most certainly true. Gun's though are something we should be able to do something about. More stringent gun control laws for one, but even better, enforcing the ones we already have would go a long way to help the situation. The NRA in all reality does none of us any good opposing all gun control laws.

The difference between the shooting at Dunblane, is that it was an outside person. Apart from that armish school shooting, the others were done by student/s.

To a certain extent it's down to gun-control, but there's a point at which people need to be responsible.

If this person couldn't get hold of a gun, would he have resorted to other ways, or would he just have though 'meh, forget it'.

Wind and Flagpoles...hmmm

Do I even reply to such poor logic like that?

Atleast put up a strong arguement such as the effects it would have on society if the US imposed tougher gun laws.

Talk about the problems and questions surrounding other areas of the US constitution, like the right to a private militia and seperation of Church and State. Show that altering one area of the constitution will lead to a potential rewrite of other constitutional rights and American liberty.

[edit on 17-4-2007 by infinite]

Grover,

I was in law enforcement for over 7 years. I arrested felons and saw more than I care to admit, but what I do know for a fact from meeting and talking with fellow officers from around the world, especially Canada and the UK, when there is a ban on hand guns, it's only the criminals that have them.

Good people follow the laws. That is a fact I saw it first hand, even if they screw up they only do it once. Now, repeat offender felons, that are in and out of jail, disregard any laws, all the time, that is why they are always in and out of jail.

Making more laws, or even trying to enforce the ones we have don't seem to work, because repeat offenders seem to get out on so many worthless technicalities, that the laws that put them there are moot.

Originally posted by grover
that is most certainly true. Gun's though are something we should be able to do something about. More stringent gun control laws for one, but even better, enforcing the ones we already have would go a long way to help the situation. The NRA in all reality does none of us any good opposing all gun control laws.

back to the news story and something interesting..

i think we could see low level gun control. both FOX and CNN are starting to talk about it and FOX were looking at European gun laws on their ticker.

i did think it would only be brought up on ATS, not on mainstream news.