Moore's 'SICKO' Stunt Takes 9/11 Workers To Cuba

Im all for signing a petition for moore to move his fat ass to socialist europe. He wants a socialist state then move to one. I wonder if he also took the time to look at the facts? Europes current welfare/healthcare state is unsustainable and without some revitalization program will bankrupt the EU.. I wouldnt take him seriously. Especially if youve seen this schmucks documentary's.

Originally posted by Muaddib
We have had this discussion before, you and I and again sorry to tell you that there are worse "terrorist nations"...

Where are the nations that sponsored more terror outside their own borders? Maybe i should have qualified my statement by saying that i meant terror against foreign nations...

Perhaps you remember the link to a South African newspaper i gave a while ago in which it is said African children were taken to an island in Cuba to train as terrorists?...

I don't believe everything i read and considering the white regime then in power in South-Africa i think one should consider the source... That being said if it really happened Cuba were aiding a national liberation movement that spent the majority of it's existence attempting to resolve issues by very ( and possible too civil) means. That the ANC finally resorted to targeted violence , against selected military/state targets leading to few if any casualties, is no surprise and it's not a choice they made lightly.

The Communist country of Cuba supports terrorism and violent revolutions agains the west and against the United States, which is one of the reason there is still a sanction against the Communist regime...

It supports national liberation movements that are attempting to throw off US backed dictators and the like. The US aids dictators of the worse kind and does so knowingly in the effort to gain control of large parts of the world.

Once again and how many of those African nations are being plagued by black revolutionaries which don't allow the poor people to get food, medicine?....

Rather ask who sponsors those groups into power and see where the oil or resources of those various countries flows. Don't blame the poor for being poor when those with real power do their best to keep them so.

Three members from Cuba should be more than enough evidence of this...

Not really but i suppose your 'truth' is so fragile that it must depend on the words of just three...

Anyways, here is another link about Cuban doctors, and nurses and what they have to go through.
www.haciendapub.com...

And whole i can't disprove what is presented here but does the word of one dissident in this case disprove everything the world health organisation and others tells us? Why is this in your opinion so and how why do Cubans live so very long with such low infant mortality levels? Why do the system at least superficially seem to work in favour of the vast majority of Cubans? Does anyone force you to become a Doctor in Cuba and why should Doctors not work very hard for low wages considering the community service nature of their jobs? What does it cost the Cuban government ( and thus it's taxpayers) to train a doctor in the specialist nature of the Cuban system?

Why , basically, should i believe him over all the other sources?

Because Alex as Moore are too dumb to know what the truth is, and they both have to be desperate to be seeking the truth in Communist systems which call themselves enemies of the United States.

Neither of the two are communist and Alex regularly indulges in tirades against all things communist and socialist. You have not informed yourself on these matters and i wonder why you would attack a patriot such as Alex.

There is more debate in "U.S. media" than in countries like Cuba.

Only superficially so as the Cuban media at least releases the terrorist nature of the US government as well as the false left right paradigm that has most Americans so well fooled. The US media is certainly in theory more able to bring the truth to the people, and certainly does so on occasions if well hidden in economic papers with no additional coverage, but since it hides as much truth as the Cuban media and probably spreads as many if not more lies ( that are believed as the American propaganda system has credibility and lacks the crudeness of the old Soviet types) it's hard to say which is 'best' if not hard to point out which could easily be best.

in Cuba all information is controlled, not so in the United States.

On any given day the results seems to be much the same and i doubt as many Cubans are fooled on the regular basis Americans seems to be. I am quite sure Cubans understand the world , and their place in it, far better than Americans do.

People like yourself might want to believe so but the truth is found when U.S. media are free to say and print pretty much anything and everything about the U.S....

Which hardly explains why they so rarely tells these great truths about the American empire and it's tens off millions of victims.

Stellar

Forgive me if i seem patronizing, or worse, as i have recently started losing touch with my more diplomatic side. I'm looking for it but it's hard to find with so much mud flying around and any help, in the form of assuming better intentions for me than you otherwise would have, will be appreciated.

Thank you.

Originally posted by crgintx
Stellar here's his wiki bio:
en.wikipedia.org...

I don't need his bio btw and i don't recall him claiming to be auto-worker.....

I'm no fan of US foreign policy which over the last 47 years has lead to the needless death of over 60,000 of my fellow servicemen and women. Not to mention the millions of foreign civilian deaths.

Which informed party could at this point still be a fan of the murderous US foreign policy that have not even enriched American citizens in any way?

Michael Moore however is a such a hypocrite however that I couldn't let this one slide by without comment.

You can be a hypocrite and still be a great documentary maker so i don't see the problem. If you dislike him because you do not believe he has the virtues he claims for himself that is up to you but why suggest that this somehow makes the overwhelming majority ( if then not all) of facts presented in his movies untrue? Do you realise that he actually published a book with the documentation laying it all out and that ALL the major claims can be validated from government documents?

Communism is a failed political philosophy that enslaves the individual.

It has not really failed as it's fascism by another name which is not only a thriving in large parts of the world but it still lives on in the minds of those who exported it to Russia leading to 1917.

Socialism is weakening and diminishing the human spirit by making them dependent on the state.

And that is why we should have far less of it.

The US's experiment in socialism aka welfare has created a permanent race-based economic underclass.

It has not and the US welfare system has in fact done a great job of protecting the most exposed ( Caucasians anyways) parts of the American society from starvation and worse. Despite all the mismanagement the system still seems to work and millions more would face serious privation if not for this protective measure. The system could do with streamlining and more money ( and less reason to exist for instance) but certainly do not require the Bush reforms that seeks to destroy it.

Socialism is inherently problematic, as power is centralized, but given a informed and active citizenry that chooses leaders to serve their economic interest it does not logically have to lead to abuse of power. The reason i think it's something we should get rid of is due to the fact that few if any countries are independent of the worlds affairs and that these power structures could be hijacked to serve the interest of the few and not the many.

Decentralized economically independent countries and people is what we should aim for and anything short of that is dangerous while we are stuck with a few powerful people who pretend to be human but fail to act so.

Latin America has a love/hate relationship with the USA.

It's in my opinion neither hate or love but a relatively good understanding of what the US is all about...

They claim that the US exploits them but none have taken steps to throw off their class-driven European colonial model economies except Cuba and to some extent Brazil.

And how are they supposed to overthrow these systems when the US destroys democratically elected leaders, and their people if they do not get the message quickly enough, who attempts to change the class system and economic models? You could start with 'KIlling Hope' by William Blum if you care to research just how active the US have been in suppressing self expression all around this planet.

www.thirdworldtraveler.com...

And that's just the list of what we can document properly...

They keep the poor in their country undereducated and unable to compete in the modern global economy.

That is the aim of the establishment in most countries and it is these establishments the US protects and arms against the people of these countries. How did the white minority in South-Africa rule a country of 30 million with 5 million without support from the outside? When you get right down to it it's not a question of what what the ANC could not do to the South African security forces but the fact that they would have had to take on Reagan and the US army as well. It's good the ignorant masses rarely not realise the odds ( even if tens of thousands of their leaders and organizers do so at great cost to themselves) against them as what they do know and experience frequently serves to immobilize them quite effectively.

Mexico claims poverty but has the 12th largest economy in the world and has greater export trade than Russia.

Mexico's economy is floated by the money it's illegal workers in the US sends back home as well as the American corporations who have moved their operations down there to extort the labour of those with few other options and enough loyalty ( or lacking the means of escape ) to want to stay in their country of birth.

How can poor Cuba offer some medical coverage to all its citizens but Mexico says it can't?

Because socialism is a give and take system where you lose some liberty and gain some economic return where capitalism is give and give system where those with power and means takes as much as they can extort whatever the result on the victim which can obviously be replaced with even cheaper labour elsewhere.

The reason the average human tends towards socialism is because there is potential for gain without having to resort to the exploitation of others ( and this our tribal minds understands and considers fair and close to ideal) that capitalism demands as foundation. Socialism may slowly erode your liberty but it's unlikely to kill you as fast as Capitalism is intended to.

In closing, and back to the original point, i don't mind if you dislike Michael Moore but i will defend his documentary work as i believe it's informative ( especially to the desperately ignorant and emotionally fragile) and serves to educate those who are interested in reality better than most documentaries would.

If Michael Moore's documentaries does not 'reach' you or you have some kind of problem with the things he calls facts the problem lies squarely with you and it should not be blamed on the few faults of messenger.

Stellar

Originally posted by dgtempe

What is it with Americans and the bogeyman of Communism? We in Europe lived much closer to the hordes of Warsaw Pact tanks and communist states than Americans ever did - we don't react like you guys did / still do.

It's pretty simple actually if you think about it: Americans are brought up to believe that the individual's rights are greater than that of the state or govt. In American courts when a person is charged with a crime until the state proves he's guilty beyond a "reasonable doubt" he's innocent. In the UK for instance, the defendent has to prove his innocence if he's charged with a crime. Do you remember the case in the mid '90's of the UK pensioner who shot a known violent felon who was attempting to break into his domicile and was then convicted of assaulting said felon?!! In the US, the police would have taken a statement from the oldster, shook his hand and thanked him even in near socialist states like California and New York. Despite recent setbacks and assaults on our Bill of Rights by the last 2 Presidential administrations, 99 percent of Americans believe that their individual freedoms should be greater than the powers of the govt to curb them. This is the American Ideal. As long as you're not committing violent crimes or trampling over your neighbors property, it's pretty much anything goes. There's some flaws and glitches in our justice system but for the most part only the religious fundamentalists and the fascists are unhappy with our chaos, it seems to work fine for everyone else. It's not perfect but we're working on it. Under communism, the state has all the rights to include owning the individual's body. Communism is the antithesis of the American Ideal and Socialism is it's weak sister.
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[edit on 17/4/07 by masqua]

Actually that was my comment / question

I think you've been fooled with a boogeyman - Germany had half its country under communist rule and T-80's a mile away ready to roll. Are they paranoid about communism - no and I'd suggest to you that we Europeans have a better undertsanding of communism than Americans.

You were all fooled with the McCarthy BS and it's bored ito your psyche.

Why your all still paranoid about a system that barely exists anymore is very strange. Personally I think the US people are controlled via the spectre of enemies - even when they pose little or no threat

We're discussing MM, Cuba, and 'communism' and yet you have to bring up guns

Tony Martin did not prove he acted in self-defence so under UK law he was guilty of manslaughter. That's how our law works (and has done for hundreds of years). Are you suggesting that we, a sovereign nation, are incapable of developing laws to fit our society?

Many people in the UK have killed burglars and proved self-defence and walked free. It's the norm. Loony farmers with illegal shotguns is not.

You picked a very bad example from, I suspect, sensationalist news sources that gave you partial facts. Read the links in my earlier post if you actually want to know the reality of self-defence in the UK

[edit on 18/4/2007 by Strangerous]

Originally posted by StellarX
Neither of the two are communist and Alex regularly indulges in tirades against all things communist and socialist.

Evidence please?

I'd like to see your factual evidence that Michael Moore is not a communist or communist sympathizer, and that Alex regularly indulges in tirades against all things communist and socialist.

How do you define 'regularly' as well?

Stellarx, seriously, it is no surprise to see you defending Moore here. I guess you finally tired of trying to derail the other thread which reported on Moore's hypocrisy and fact-fudging (aka lying, deceiving etc) being told in a Canadian documentary which first began to celebrate him, but in disillusionment, turns out to condemn him instead.

I notice when I pointed out the facts you misrepresented, in your defense of Moore, and attack on me-you've not been back.

In that thread you attack people on a point to point basis and even twist the truth like Moore, for your own agenda...where you proposed a little deception for a greater truth was to be tolerated. Knowing this is your posting ethics, I find it hard to believe what you say.

You are intelligent and write well, and twist things even better, but your hero-worship of Moore is a shame. It's a waste of your resources.

[edit on 18-4-2007 by 2l82sk8]

@ crgintx

My mistake, it was another thread - read my post here for the reality of UK self-defence

www.abovepolitics.com...

Originally posted by StellarX
Where are the nations that sponsored more terror outside their own borders? Maybe i should have qualified my statement by saying that i meant terror against foreign nations...

There are plenty of nations that the Communist regime in Cuba helps to supress and murder the poor and middle income people of those countries. For example the fact that the regime of Cuba has been helping, training, and supporting FARC in Colombia, or even it still provides safe havens to members of ETA, FARC, and the ELN.

Originally posted by StellarX
I don't believe everything i read and considering the white regime then in power in South-Africa i think one should consider the source... That being said if it really happened Cuba were aiding a national liberation movement that spent the majority of it's existence attempting to resolve issues by very ( and possible too civil) means. That the ANC finally resorted to targeted violence , against selected military/state targets leading to few if any casualties, is no surprise and it's not a choice they made lightly.

Right, I forgot, you just believe whatever you want to believe.. I forgot that apparently "it is only the white/hispanic folk who have always suppressed the black folk... Who can even think that black folk also have had suppressed, sold into slavery and massacred other black folk and even whites/hispanics before and after black slavery?...

I guess only white folk are the ones capable of committing massacres...

Every race has at one time or another, suppressed, murdered and used as slaves people of other races, and even people of their own race or tribes.... every race.

Even now there is black on black violence in Africa, and there are black warlords, and Arabs who deal in slavery, and murdering blacks and whites too.

I guess you have no idea that there is a human slave/sex market for every race right now, and it is not only black people who are suffering?

Originally posted by StellarX
It supports national liberation movements that are attempting to throw off US backed dictators and the like. The US aids dictators of the worse kind and does so knowingly in the effort to gain control of large parts of the world.

No, it supports terrorists who murder, and kidnap innocent people... Try to sugar coat it all you want, but FARC, ETA, and ELN, among some others which the Communist regime of Cuba support and give their members safe haven, have kidnapped innocent people from their own countries and murdered them... But i guess according to you "they are just trying to liberate themselves"....

Originally posted by StellarX
Rather ask who sponsors those groups into power and see where the oil or resources of those various countries flows. Don't blame the poor for being poor when those with real power do their best to keep them so.

Again, you can try to sugar coat it all you want, but black groups are also suppressing other blacks in Africa. They don't let the poor black folk get medicine, and or food from foreign aid... Neither white nore hispanic people are puting a gun to the heads of the black and Arab warlords who are supressing and have caused massacres among the black and white folks.

In the 1980s from 1.5 to over 2 million African Christians were murdered by Arab extremists, the massacres are still ongoing on the second jihad called forth by the government of Sudan.

There is also slavery going on in Sudan.

Are there slaves in Sudan?
There are no public auctions; there is no systematic branding... But women and children, particularly from Southern Sudanese communities, have been seized in violent raids on villages by fighters armed by the government in the civil war. They are forced into servitude on farms or in houses, often sexually exploited, and sometimes sold by their captors.
How many slaves are there?
Several thousand have been enslaved in the last ten years. It's impossible to give a precise figure, or to say how many have escaped or been freed. The raiders have also massacred thousands of people and driven hundreds of thousands from their homes. Many such "displaced" people, including 250,000 Nuba, are forced into in government "peace camps" - where they become internees, but not slaves.

Who are the slaves?
The slaves are mostly Dinka people from the northern part of Bahr al-Ghazal region, plus small numbers from other war-stricken areas.

Who captures them?
The main takers of slaves are government-armed militias from the Rezeigat and Meseriya people. Both groups belong to the Baggara, cattle-herding Arabic-speaking people who live in the neighbouring regions of Kordofan and Darfur. Other members of the "Popular Defence Force" (PDF) militias, as well as some regular army officers, are also involved

www.sudanupdate.org...

Black warlords all over Africa stop the aid that is intended to help the poor and the warlords and their troops use that aid to help themselves mantain power over the people.

No white /hispanic people is puting a gun to the head of the black and Arab warlords and making them commit those atrocities they cause to the poor...

Originally posted by StellarX
Not really but i suppose your 'truth' is so fragile that it must depend on the words of just three...

Fragile?... Just because there are only three members who were born in cuba doesn't mean that there are only three Cubans who agree with each other...

Is your own statement so fragile that you want to shut your eyes to what is really happening and want to believe "only the white folks are causing all these problems"?...

Originally posted by StellarX
And whole i can't disprove what is presented here but does the word of one dissident in this case disprove everything the world health organisation and others tells us?

And human right groups say that there is no freedom of the press and all information that comes from the Cuban regime is agreed upon by the regime.... They write what they want the world to believe is the truth....

"No Freedom In Cuba" Comments Harsh Editorial In Italian Paper
Zenit, The World Seen From Rome
Feb. 1, 1999 Daily Dispatch

European Left Criticizes Repression of Journalists

ROME, FEB 1 (ZENIT).- "A country which does not respect freedom of the press, has nothing to share with the consensus of the democratic nations." These were the harsh words directed against Fidel Castro's Cuban regime, in an editorial of the Italian center-left newspaper 'La Repubblica.' The unusual invective was provoked by the arrest of six journalists over the last few days; one is quite ill as has been on a hunger strike, and two others have been given harsh sentences based on "fantastic accusations like 'social danger', 'violation of the norms of socialist morality' and 'insult to the maximum leader [Fidel Castro].' "

"Cuba is the only country in Latin American where freedom of the press is not recognized by law. What happens in Cuba, "continues to be culpably unnoticed in Europe, with sporadic exceptions like the publication 'Journalists Without Borders.' "

www.fiu.edu...

The four leaders of the Dissident Working Group -- Martha Beatriz Roque, Vladimiro Roca, Felix Bonne, and Rene Gomez Manzano were arrested July 16, 1997 for publishing a document entitled "The Fatherland Belongs to All," which criticized Cuba's one-party system and called for democratic change. On March 1, 1999 a closed trial was held. On March 15, 1999 the four were convicted of sedition and sentenced to prison terms of 3 1/2 to 5 years.

In May of 2000, Felix Bonne Carcasses, Martz Beatriz Roque Cabello, and Rene de Jesus Gomez Manzano received a conditional release from prison. The fourth member of the group, Vladimiiro Roca Antunez, remains imprisoned.

www.state.gov...

There is no freedom of speech whatsoever in Cuba, and although many Cubans in the island have tried to unite and be independent from the government, the Communist regime has incarcerated, killed/dissapeared, or expatriated those Cubans that have tried to better the conditions for the people.

In early August 1998, at least two dozen small farmers in the central-eastern province of Las Tunas affiliated themselves with the ANAIC.99 The ANAIC was founded on the principles of land ownership by farmers rather than the government, free agricultural markets, and cooperation, mutual support and solidarity between farmers independent of the government. Initially, the government tried to coax the independent farmers back into the fold by promising credits and other support. But the ANAIC reconfirmed its independence as a non-governmental organization and, following the visit of the Pope, announced that it would hold its first major meeting on May 5, 1998 in Loma del Gato in the province of Santiago de Cuba.
..........
On May 4-5, 1998, the government deployed large numbers of police, State Security agents and Brigadas de Respuesta Rápida, Rapid Response Brigades, to intimidate and in many cases detain anyone who tried to travel to the site of the ANAIC meeting, the farm of Jorge Béjar, president of the Cooperativa Transición, in Loma del Gato in the province of Santiago de Cuba. Those detained were taken to police stations where they were threatened with imprisonment if they did not desist from participating in the independent farmers movement. Police and State Security then invaded Béjar’s farm house, interrogated and threatened the residents, and told them there would be no farmers meeting. Béjar and his wife were detained by police for five hours. ANAIC president Hernández was released the night of May

www.worldpolicy.org...

Originally posted by StellarX
Neither of the two are communist and Alex regularly indulges in tirades against all things communist and socialist. You have not informed yourself on these matters and i wonder why you would attack a patriot such as Alex.

If Alex Jones really "indulges in tirades against all things Communist and Socialist", then why did he ask president Chavez for help to find out the truth about 9/11?... Chavez is a self professed Communist, or revolutionary socialist, but even in the latest presidential speech he stated he is a Communist.

Why would anyone who "indulges in tirades against socialism and Communism" ask for help from a Communist revolutionary?...

And Moore is simply in it for the money. He does not give a rats ass about the truth, he just weants to make money using topics which are the rave amongst many people these days.

Originally posted by StellarX
The US media is certainly in theory more able to bring the truth to the people, and certainly does so on occasions if well hidden in economic papers with no additional coverage, but since it hides as much truth as the Cuban media and probably spreads as many if not more lies ( that are believed as the American propaganda system has credibility and lacks the crudeness of the old Soviet types) it's hard to say which is 'best' if not hard to point out which could easily be best.

LOL...nice try, but the Cuban media is nothing like the US media...

As an example any Cuban who states publicly or writes any statements critical of castro gets jailed, his/her work gets destroyed, and they can never find any job on the island, all of which are owned by the state.

In the U.S. the media can bash and blame the U.S. president all it wants, and noone gets in jailed or their work destroyed because of this...

Nice try, but it is obvious you don't know what you are talking about.

Originally posted by StellarX
On any given day the results seems to be much the same and i doubt as many Cubans are fooled on the regular basis Americans seems to be. I am quite sure Cubans understand the world , and their place in it, far better than Americans do.

Again, another statement of yours that shows you don't know about Cuba anything at all.

Cubans are not free to leave the island, and those who do have to use homemade rafts, and have to face death at sea from dehydration, and sea infested sharks.

Those professionals who are ordered to go to other countries, such as doctors or athletes are always watched by castro's thugs, and don't have much freedom to do whatever they want. They have to do whatever the Communist government tells them to do.

Cubans know less about the world than most Americans do.

Originally posted by StellarX
Which hardly explains why they so rarely tells these great truths about the American empire and it's tens off millions of victims.

Tens of millions of victims... who do you think believes those lies and exagerations?...

Perhaps your rethoric works on those who are not educated and are poor, but it does not work on those who have experienced what the "workers revolution" is all about...

[edit on 18-4-2007 by Muaddib]

Originally posted by 2l82sk8
Evidence please?

Listen to more than two hours worth of his broadcasts? Your ignorance on the matter is quite obvious and to accuse Alex of being a communist is not only ridiculous but slanderous. As to mister Moore once again i wonder how what he says can be construed as communist. Since i know that some people believe anything they want under the title of communist i should probably first ask what you happen to believe the title means.

I'd like to see your factual evidence that Michael Moore is not a communist or communist sympathizer,

Maybe it's best if you let us know if you think that anyone with a leftist orientation is a 'communist' as that would probably clearly up a great many issues.

and that Alex regularly indulges in tirades against all things communist and socialist.

Well documented and i suggest you read some of his work or watch some of the videos.

How do you define 'regularly' as well?

I define regularly as often enough so that no one who actually reads that given persons work can come to such a ignorant conclusion about the given persons motives.

Stellarx, seriously, it is no surprise to see you defending Moore here.

It is obvious as there are clearly people out there that can not deal with what truths Michael happens to be telling.

I guess you finally tired of trying to derail the other thread which reported on Moore's hypocrisy and fact-fudging (aka lying, deceiving etc) being told in a Canadian documentary which first began to celebrate him, but in disillusionment, turns out to condemn him instead.

I'm just quite busy and have not really had a great interest in further antagonizing a radical such as yourself. I will start a response tonight if you think my weeks worth of absence 'proved' something.

That thread sadly did not report on anything serious and was just another attempt to discredit the man instead of dealing with the volume of his work.

I notice when I pointed out the facts you misrepresented, in your defense of Moore, and attack on me-you've not been back.

How very astute of you. Do you think it may be connected to the fact that you response contains about fifteen thousand words that i want to respond in more detail to than i have had time for? Do my posting record suggest that i just 'flee' the scene of my own ignorance on many or any occasions? Do you want to stage a attempt to treat the crowd to a few such instances?

In that thread you attack people on a point to point basis and even twist the truth like Moore, for your own agenda...

What i said there is well documented and i will point out your misrepresentations soon enough. Don't assume so much by my short absence...

where you proposed a little deception for a greater truth was to be tolerated.

I said nothing of the sort but did suggest that one misrepresentation does not destroy such a large volume of work. If the distinction is too hard to grasp just ask me to clarify as the tactic is far too frequently employed by those who have very personal motives quite independent of the topic.

Knowing this is your posting ethics, I find it hard to believe what you say.

You don't know a think about me and until you read a few hundreds of my posts i would rather you not pretend to.

You are intelligent and write well,

Why thank you! I will do my best to find something worth complementing you for but i can obviously not guarantee that will find something soon or at all.

and twist things even better, but your hero-worship of Moore is a shame. It's a waste of your resources.

Well if i do twist things it's not intentionally and since these accusations so infrequently( read 'never') 'pan out' im not going to take much offense for something every human does in one small way or another.

In my own judgement i do not 'worship' anyone ( not even Jesus/random almighty) or anything but do feel that Michael deserves far better treatment than what you have afforded him and by looking at your conduct this seems personal and i am starting to wonder what Michael did to 'injure' you.

Stellar

I don't know about the other member but i didn't accuse Alex Jones of being a Communist, although I find it strange that anyone who "regularly makes tirades against socialism and communism" would ask a Communist such as Chavez, to help him find the truth about 9/11...

As for Michael Moore telling the truth?.....

Moore is just a fat oportunistic bastard, who had no idea that passengers in flight 93 fought against the terrorists... He called the people that died in the planes "scaredy-cats"....

He doesn't give a crap about people or the truth, he is just making money from controversial arguments.

back on topic..


What a disgusting fat body..

A New York Post exclusive reveals that Michael Moore, for his new fraudumentary called "Sicko", is taking a bunch of 9/11 workers down to Cuba so that they can experience the joys of free national healthcare. Cuba's healthcare system is considered by many so-called experts and governments as the best in the world, so what Moore is trying to do is make the argument that America should mimic the Cuban system.

Only, it isn't the best. Not near it. Those foreigners and wealthy people who go to Cuba, including the people that Michael Moore are bringing down, are only shown the few top of the line facilities which probably are some of the best in the world. It's a huge propaganda campaign aimed at deceiving people into believing that Cuba does, in fact, have the best healthcare system in the world. This is totally false. The clinics and hospitals that the everyday Cuban sees, if they see one at all, are cockroach infested hovels that one might be wise to stay away from lest they get worse.

Michael Moore is just aiding in promoting Fidel Castro's mythology. If he gets away with it, he'll have all blue-state Americans believing it rather than just most of them.

publiuspundit.com...

And the article linked from the page can be read here:

www.gentiuno.com...

It's hard to believe that people are treated for illnesses in conditions depicted in that article.

I never had to go to a hospital when I went to visit my relatives in Cuba back in 2001, but one of my fillings fell off. I recently had to replace a filling in the U.S., and it fell off in Cuba. A cousin of mine is a dentist and she took me to her office, remember that all jobs in Cuba are owned and run by the Communist government.

The room was a bit cleaner than the ones in that picture, more because of the fact that my cousin is very concious about cleaning, but there was no amalgalm, which is the only filling the regular Cubans get to choose from, if there is any.

I was in Cuba for about a month or so, and in that time they never got more amalgam. According to my cousin that happens frequently, and at times they go for months without supplies such as amalgam, but she didn't have to tell me that because i keep in contact with my family in Cuba and know and have experienced this when I lived in Cuba back in the 70s.

Anyways, thanks for the pictures and the article Mirthful Me.

[edit on 19-4-2007 by Muaddib]

BTW, another of the free and wonderful things about Cuba, and which affects the health of people, is that the government is supposed to take care of the garbage right?....

Well, one of the many decorations that you find in every other corner of Cuba is the beautiful mountains of trash that pile up in street corners....

There are many Cubans that what they do is actually throw the garbage in rivers so the river will wash out the garbage, but over the years what this has caused is an accumulation of garbage in rivers in Cuba...and when there are floods, you can imagine what happens....

The places where most tourists go in Cuba are in overall cleaner than other parts of the cities which are not frequented by foreigners.

Most of my family lives in Havana, in the section of Marianao, and once you get out of the "tourist areas" you start seeing the "real Cuba." The Cuba with garbage piled in mountains in every other corner.... The Cuba where most streets have large parts of the streets missing, as in large sink holes, and at times, if you do have a car, we rented one which most of the time one of my uncles had to use it because he is a doctor and his old car is broken most of the time, you ahve to drive even on the sidewalks or have to swerve left and right to avoid sink holes.

I know there was another moderator in the forums who went to visit to Cuba and took a lot of pictures. I also have some pictures, but I never thought of taking pictures of the garbage lying around, or the rivers full of garbage. I will see if I can scan some of the pictures of Cuba that I took.

[edit on 19-4-2007 by Muaddib]

Anyways, i went through some of the pictures that I have, most of them my parents have them in Florida, and most of the pictures i have are of friends of mine, my family, etc. I never really thought about taking pictures of the real Cuba, back in 2001 i still thought most people knew the truth about Cuba...

BTW, I did search on the internet for pictures of the real Cuba and found this...

As a supermodel and 1999's Miss Czech Republic, Helena Houdová has been on the receiving end of a camera's attention. But the 26-year-old now finds herself on the other side of the lens.

After an unpleasant arrest in Cuba Jan. 23 — during which she and a friend were kept under guard for almost 12 hours — Houdová is planning an exhibition featuring many of the photographs of Havana slums and health institutions that led to her detainment. It is set to open Feb. 22 at Langhans Gallery.

While Cuba's communist regime would have visitors associate Havana with palm-lined avenues and beach-front restaurants, Houdová 's photos tell a different story: that of the plight of local AIDS patients in prisons and sanitariums, and the lives of the poor in shantytowns on the city's outskirts.

Houdová smuggled the photos out of Cuba by hiding the digital memory chip on which they were stored in her bra.

www.praguepost.com...

Anyone interested to see what really happens in the island should read that article.

This goes to show that some supermodels are smarter than most people think.

What i don't get is why this hasn't been on the news... i just found out as i was searching on the internet for pictures of the real Cuba.

[edit on 19-4-2007 by Muaddib]

Here is a realplayer audio file about Helena Houdová's bravery on taking out those photographs from Cuba.

I couldn't find all the pictures she took online, maybe someone else can have better luck.

There is one picture in the Prague article i linked to before, but that's the only one I found.

www.voanews.com...

[edit on 19-4-2007 by Muaddib]

Well, after some more research I found that most of the photos that Helena took can only be seen at the exhibit. The funds from the exhibit are being used to help children in Cuba.

Helena is the founder of "Sunflower", a non-profit humanitarian aid organization which helps poor children in the world.

One of the pictures she took, which can be found on the Prague link, was linked on her website.

www.sunflowerchildren.org...

Although it is good that the funds from the exhibit are being used to help children in Cuba, those pictures should be made public for the whole world to see the real Cuba, and not the lies which "the Communist regime wants the world to believe".

Anyways, I will try to contact Helena through her website and see if i can convince her that at least some of the pictures should be available for everyone in the world to see. That might make a bigger impact than an exhibit for the rich, and might help more the children in Cuba.

[edit on 19-4-2007 by Muaddib]

Humm....so no response from those who were claiming "three Cuban members can't be telling the truth about castro's Communist regime"?....

Anyways, here is aprt of what Helena says in her own website.

Cuban security police detained Houdova and her companion, Czech psychologist Mariana Kroftova, while they were taking photographs in the poor Havana area of Arroyo Naranjo. They were released 11 hours later after signing a letter saying they would not engage in "counter-revolutionary" activities.

"We were afraid," Houdova said. "We grew up under communism and know what it is like."

www.sunflowerchildren.org...