reply to post by OnTheLevel213
Fair enough. But I didn't explicitly say: "the Greeks spontaneously and instantaneously manifested the entirety of Western culture." I'd say they came
up with about 3/4 of their own "original material" and the rest was "copyrighted" material from the Middle East, India, etc.
But, seriously, I'd have to be a total douche to believe they came up with 100% of it. But, let me ask you, let us say hypothetically that they had
actually come up with all of it? Wouldn't u think people would still be trying to downplay the importance of that, and try to distort history? Hell,
they are doing it now, and that's only regarding the 75% of Western culture that we invented! There are plenty of white supremacist (wtf? aren't the
Greeks white too???) authors that have tried to somehow reduce Greece's role in the creation of the Western culture. Heck, even the great David Icke
goes on and on about the Phoenicians, going to very great lengths to "prove" that they
were the ones who civilized the Greeks. Well, who knows,
perhaps the Greeks did borrow form them...however Icke does his best to ALSO conveniently prove that Phoenicians=British. So his ultimate goal is to
make out that the British started it all. But his theory is so full of holes it's worse than Swiss cheese.
I've seen it all before. At one time or another, every Tom, Dick & Harry has tried (thru the latest "full of holes" theory) to purposely downplay the
role of Ancient Greece. I do realize people may find that Greeks overreact with this sometimes, but if we
don't defend ourselves, then who
will? To quote the great Donald Trump: "when you're the fastest gun, everybody is out to kill you" This was in reference to the constant
jealousy and irrational, baseless attacks he gets, simply because he's Number 1 in his field. Well...you get my point with how it fits in with this
We didn't "spontaneously" invent 100%, but it seems to be a trend for people to refuse to give us credit even for the percentage of it that we
originate. Whatever the percentage is, if one is unbiased, it is clearly obvious that many things we Greeks developed were completely
original & not seen before in an embryonic form, in an earlier culture. There were indeed many original concepts. People have a hard time accepting
this, because NO other culture has accomplished something comparable. Sorry...
So what we often see occurring because of this inconvenient Truth is:
1) Greeks are often accused of being "too proud" when they state what I just stated above. All they are doing is stating something that is
historically proven, however.
2) Many non-Greeks refusing to admit the true significance of Greece's contribution
and the worst of all
3) Incredibly, there are even some (various racist authors) who have attempted to alter history and amazingly arrive at various outlandish conclusions
that always have one thing in common: they make Greece look bad and their race look better.
Aaah, Greece...all its enemies "want it" (Persians, etc) and all the Western countries want to "be it".
If it's a fact, then it's a fact, and we Greeks should be allowed to state it without getting any backlash.
Having said that, because I'm fair, I will admit that a few Greeks overdo it with this. Not only do they insist Greece originated absolutely
everything, they also have a near total disregard for the culture of other nations too. To me this is the same as the British or German supremacists.
So I disagree with it, and have gotten in numerous arguments with relatives of mine, etc, over it.
Look, I really don't know how I would've treated this issue if I wasn't of Greek stock. I don't know to what extent I'm biased. I would like to think
that I'd give credit where it's due though. I mean there are many non-Greeks that agree with all I've written here, so there are people that admit the
facts. For example, I actually believe Indian civilization to be superior to all of them. And there is no bias at all, just giving credit where it's
due. I, and many fellow Greeks, would simply appreciate it if people merely gave us credit for the things that we legitimately DID create. Nothing
more, nothing less. Just giving credit where it's due is all it was ever
Our Roman-American friend seems to "have a dog in this fight", if u know what I mean. The reason I asked him what racial background he is, is because
I was 100% sure he must've belonged to one of the main "competitors", if u know what i'm saying. And I was right: the Romans. I mean, the guy comes
out of nowhere and has only ONE thing to say: "why was it mind-boggling"? The things people say, give them away. Even a fool knows that Rome copied
from Greek culture.
He'll never admit it on the forum but 99% (or there abouts) of Italians believe that the Romans "improved upon" Greek culture and were superior. Yeah,
okay...just like Oasis "improved upon" the Beatles. Ha! Do u catch my drift?? ha-ha ROFL!
I got into a heated argument over this with an Italian
"friend" (he didn't like me after I stood up for Greece) once upon a time. Truth be told: aside from Roman Law, the Romans didn't originate jack sh*t,
but ripped off the Greeks wholesale & put a few of their own touches on Greek culture. And then this trend continued with the other great European
empires. Bottom line: It's all a "rehash" of Ancient Greece, face it.
I may appear a bit aggressive, but I actually love Italian/Roman culture and I think Rome was awesome. Italian cuisine is my favourite, they design
the best sport scars, they have amazing artists(actors/musicians), etc. Oh yeah, and the women...oh boy the women! Full of class! (Monica Bellucci
But the thing is, his second reply is what REALLY got me going. "they borrowed it from earlier ones". I take this statement as an attack on my
heritage. Borrowed? Yeah right! Dream on. They borrowed a certain part only. But the Romans, on the other hand...well, I don't know, maybe these guys
borrowed a bit TOO heavily. And from the Greeks, no less. So diminishing the creativeness of the Greeks would be expected from them sometimes.
But this Greek-Roman rivalry is something that annoys me to no end, so let's stop here. Greece is like the "Beatles of Western civilization" and
that's the end of that. There is not even a debate. In an ideal world, I wouldn't even have to explain anything.
Anyway, enough of that. I'll just finish up with one little example: in the West, Aristotle was the authority on virtually everything
nearly 2,000 years. Only in the last couple of centuries has he been (sort of) overshadowed by other luminaries like Newton or whatever. And that's
just one guy. I couldn't be bothered getting into a ridiculously massive list of how many philosophers, historians, scientists, playwrights, poets,
etc, etc, Greece produced that everyone else looked up to as authorities for the last 2,000 years. If I keep going I'm gonna start sounding like those
other extreme Greeks that believe Ancient Greeks created the whole frikin' Universe. I'm not that bad...I just state verifiable
some people have issues with verifiable facts, then I can't help them.
DISCLAIMER: The only reason I got into this full-on (and seemingly aggressive) rant, is because of that post "why is it mind-boggling?", which was
compounded by the other one: "they borrowed to the extent everyone else did". I took this as an attempt to make Greece appear insignificant, and so I
ended up up with this reply. My initial post was about other things. About the Epsilon Team/Atlantis connections and so forth. I wouldn't just post
all this for no reason. Consider this post as defence not offence.
edit on 22-3-2011 by TheNewAeon2012 because: Fro the glory of Greece