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Diliberate dummin doun

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posted on Nov, 24 2002 @ 09:31 PM

By: Alan Stang

Last week, we began to look at a book entitled the deliberate dumbing down of america (Ravenna, Ohio, The Conscience Press, 2000) by educator Charlotte Thomson Iserbyt. The title has no capital letters, to dramatize the deliberate dumbing down of children in the nationí³ government (public) schools. Again, the thing that makes Mrs. Iserbytí³ book so stupendous was her ability to plow through a couple of mountains of garbage extruded by the (mis)educators who are deliberately doing this, so you doní´ need to guess what they mean. You can see for yourself.

This week, letí³ look at some things they are doing. Please remember that when I use the word "they," I am not necessarily talking about the teachers. Yes, many teachers in the government (public) schools are part of the problem, but many are not. The ones who are not do try to protect the children, even to educate them, but those good teachers do not run the schools and must do as they are told. No, we are talking about the administrators, the people who do run the schools, the academics who come up with the educational theories, the people in the state and federal departments of education.

[edit on 3-1-2006 by Thomas Crowne]

posted on Nov, 24 2002 @ 09:41 PM
The "dumbing down" has been going on for quite awhile -- ever since the advent of television which encouraged our shorter attention spans.

I used my parents' junior high history books as research for high school papers -- and the word and sentence sophistication in those books from the 1930-1940 era were equal to the high school/freshman college level in the 1970's.

Today, they'd be senior level college material.

And our attention spans are getting shorter.

posted on Nov, 24 2002 @ 09:56 PM
Yes it has been going on for awhile.And it is getting worse.My son is in 5th grade,and they leave so much out of history or make it sound nicer than it was.

posted on Nov, 24 2002 @ 10:00 PM
Yup. TV's, Nintendo, Atari, etc, etc, etc. kids can't find Iraq on a map and all that. I think parents these days need a good education as much as the kids. Why they arenít expecting more out of schools to begin with is beyond me. Public schools are becoming worse. Anyone thinking of home schooling their children or have any thoughts on that?

posted on Nov, 24 2002 @ 10:17 PM
In CA we are not allowed to home school unless you have licence to teach.They passed that law about a year ago.

I'am not a big fan of home schooling myself.I think children need to interact with other children and adults,so they know how to deal with people when they get out into the real world.I just try to add to what my son is being taught.Show him there is more than what he is being taught in school.

posted on Nov, 25 2002 @ 12:53 AM
We have the same problem in the EU with the public school. This is the reason why my daughter is going to a private school and not a public school.

P.S : nyeff, it's really a crazy law. I wonder why they have voted this law.

posted on Nov, 25 2002 @ 06:45 AM
Both of my teenage sons are "self-schooled" over the past 2 years. My oldest just got a 1260 on his SAT the first time out.

However, this isn't due to our philosophy on the subject. After moving to NYC, and observing the public schools, there was no way we'd subject them to such mayhem... and we couldn't afford private schools. (SIDE NOTE: NYC public schools have awesome programs if you've been in the system from the very begining... we just moved here in my sons high school years).

The resources available to anyone for learning in this city are astounding, so "self-schooling" was a viable option. They often visited the gigantic library and Metropolitan Museum of Art every week.

They still discovered plenty of friends though community and sports programs.

All-in-all, they are now significantly ahead of their counterparts in public schools.

posted on Nov, 25 2002 @ 09:31 AM
Having been a public school teacher (once long ago) I've got to admit I'm suspicious of homeschooling. I was unusual in that I could teach (not always well, but I could teach) just about any subject and any grade (I've subbed in band, P.E., chemistry, math, english, etc, and at all grade levels from 3rd grade throug high school.)

Thing is, just because you have the curriculum doesn't mean you can learn it or understand it well enough to teach it. Math was my worst subject -- if I'd ever had to teach geometry, I"m not sure I could have done it.

And teaching parents sometimes have an agenda (I'm thinking of the hyper-religious ones) that don't make for a good, broad education.

I'd like to see schools built up more... it's easy to teach a classroom of 10-12 students. It's horribly hard to teach a public school classroom with 40 students in it. I think that the better solution is to start pushing for local school reforms (starting with more teachers and more classrooms).

And teaching is stressful -- sometimes teaching family members (kids) is more stressful on the teacher and on the students than having a stranger teach them the same material.

posted on Nov, 25 2002 @ 10:16 AM
These are the 3 legal ways to homeschool in CA.

1. Have a current California teaching credential for the grades being taught, or hiring a credentialed tutor.

2. Enrolling a student in a public school ISP (Independent Study Program).

3. Enrolling a student in a bona fide private school offering independent study.

posted on Nov, 25 2002 @ 10:42 AM
'Home school' or 'Public School' is not an end all. It's a parent's responsibility to educate their children; give research projects, take them to museums, watch A&E and discuss the seminal figures of given cultures, learn a language with them, go somewhere besides Disney for vacation, immerse them in another culture by going to ethnic restaurants or fairs, buy them educational software instead of the latest Tomb Raider .
If parents felt a bit more obligated to the task, this wouldn't even be a topic.

posted on Nov, 25 2002 @ 11:11 AM
Well I do,do everything you mentioned BT.But I have also been talked to by my sons teachers for interfering with their teaching.They got a little upset with me when I explained to my son that most of the Indian did not like the Spanish missonaries,and there were uprisings and revolts, not a nice smooth change to Christianity like they would have us believe.
I will always do what I feel is right for my children,but sometimes it goes against what the school system wants to teach.I worry I might get my son in trouble,and I don't want him to have a hard time with his teachers.

posted on Nov, 25 2002 @ 10:54 PM
Didn't know you had children BT. I have 2 boys myself. A 5 yr. old that just entered kindergarten and a newborn. What do you guys think of the school voucher issue? I have mixed emotions but I know I would probably welcome it, my son goes to a private school and everything helps. I also have heard of some home schooled children in the area that are on the local public school sports teams. Rules aren't as tight here as what you described in CA Nyeff.

posted on Nov, 25 2002 @ 11:47 PM
I think everyone should read this hillarious Doonesberry comic I saw in the Physics building:

It starts out with a professor of history saying, "When I first started this class, there were 12 assigned texts, most of them lengthy, the class was booked and I had over 250 students. (Next frame) Now 9 years ago, regulations required me to limit it down to only 9 books most of a moderate size, and the class level dropped to about 100 to start, and even then over 2/3rds dropping out because the 'required reading was too much'. Now I only assign 3!!!! Books, none over 200 pages. And.....WHAT THE HELL?" (Looks at the lecture hall, seeing only one student who is raising his hand saying, "wait, we have to read three books?")

I love that comic, the problem I think is steming from media DIRECTLY and another primary benifactor is "Teen socialization". No buts about it, much music people listen to (such as rap) is not very "productive" inspiring. Also the type of people you are hanging around with GREATLY influences how you will deal with school. Some good parents can get their kids to be good students no matter what, but it mainly revolves around "socializing, and the type of media that 'clique' interacts with".

It is hard to figure out, but I think that the primary problem IN school is the history//government classes. They have "so little time" that they breeze over the material, making it very boring and not educating anyone. I knew more than my history teacher, who was one of the BEST in our school, and politely tried to correct him along the way but gave up because NO ONE wanted to hear how it REALLY was or WHY it happend.

This all balls together, you have passifistic music (or oppositely, music that is too agressive) movies and tvs that promote gang-like (note like) behavior, and promote that if you are learning you are a loser. I have yet seen one movie directed towards the youth, (maybe "The Emporer's Club" will be much different, but it is not really towards the "youth".) That doesn't promote violence, beating up those who get in your way, and every damn thing that has a hole in it, as long as it isn't gay.

This is bafoonery, Kids go to school with there asses showing, they slap hands, they are TRIBAL, we built a "breifly lived" excellent school system, based on the reminants of Victorian England. That influence has all but lifted, I wouldn't be surprised if soon you were allowed to go to school naked, share in orgies and pray to pagan gods with goat sacrifices. No offense to paganism, that is the best way I can describe tribalism (which includes a caste system, groups of hierarchy, social signs of distinction, and "warriors" and schools have ALL of that now)

I saw a picture of my grandma's class when she was in elementary school, and the kids there looked more adult then high school graduates do now. They had suits and ties. Students now peirce every thin part of their bodies to "signify their existance" there is no other reason. Peircings are ritualism, any type of self mutilation is. A "rite" of passage. Peircings on the ears are all but nullified now of its original meanings, but lips nose nipples, all "rites of passage" for attention.

God this is a whole big subject, and I don't think it is directly the government's fault, I think it is the "DON'T SPANK MY BABY" crier's fault.

For anyone to grow up educated and responsible, they need a sense of direction. Provided by a personage, which can be a role model, and a lot of good students, in fact most students, will name one teacher that was a "role" model. But most are overshadowed by Rap stars or Gangs or Sports figures.

We have become rome, hungry for blood, there's no direction or responsibility anymore, it's all about being the TOP Gladiator.

Everyone wants to be the slave, because we all now WORSHIP the slave...there are no more heros. The leaders, those who go before us have become uninteresting memories, and all these kids chase after the GREATEST SLAVE. Who ever is the best slave, the biggest idiot, is the greatest hero in the eyes of a high schooler.

Ludacris is awesome, HE'S A DAMN SLAVE! Eminem is a hero for being the first white that could RAP? He's a damn slave too, these people have NO futures, they have no influence over our nation's policies, they have never fought a war, never died for freedom, they promote slavery and every damn impressionable youth falls into their talons.

If you want to re-introduce intelligence into our schools, you need to BUFF up the history program. ESPECIALLY THE US HISTORY. They need to get the DAMN Political Correctness out of the history books. I don't care about the flying tigers or American-japs in WW2, equal credit where credit is due, and frankly, WW2 was fought by whites.

This attrocious political correctness (I don't want to be thought of as racist, but you'll see the adverse impacts of taking away white identity and replacing it with minorities soon.) has pervaded even the foundation of our VERY NATION!

For 200 years it was tought that ROME was the basis for our law, and constitution. Then that all changed, I don't know if any of you have looked at a Government book recently, but it says FLAT OUT, that THE IROQUOIS INDIANS INFLUENCED OUR CONSTITUTION AND THAT IS ALL IT SAYS.

All the wars are suddenly fought by blacks and indians. Where is the damn white guy? All the heros in these wars are Some minority, In my high school's history book the hero was a Japanese-American soldier. # that, Damn it to hell.

We have a HUGE white population that is now falling into a rut, because they have NO heritage. Everywhere in school it is blacks this, indians that, and I went to search out wanna know why?

Because public schools only pick text books that have the MOST numbers of miniorities mentioned in them.

Now I'm not racist, but giving credit where it IS NOT DUE IS A SIN IN MY EYES PUNISHABLE BY GENOCIDE!

I feel this is a STRONG influence in the dumbing down of Americans. The intelligent people I know (of all races) were ones who knew their history. Not the prefabricated in the text books, but actually knew history, knew why policies were going on, and I only wish I could be as good with it as them.

Tribalism has invaded our schools, because minorities more than anyone need to preserve a heritage, America used to have an "American heritage".

This could be summed up by Americans who looked up to fellow Americans of the past, now in the past this was more racist than it should be. But do not kid yourself, it is still equally racist, in the opposite direction.

When I think back to WW2, and I think of my grandparents and the people of that time, it was "where are you from" and that place was always Identified as american. I can't see that now because now it is "Where is your ethnicity?"

Where people used to say they were from south phillie, now they are tought to say their parents are from Zimbabwe.

This is an invasion of foreign mind set, our society is fracturing and it fractures in the schools the most. Mexican Gangs, White Gangs, Blacks this Koreans that. In LA they give announcements in CHINESE GOD DAMN THEM!

Here is what I'm saying would be the BIGGEST cure so as to try and clear up my overtly seeming racist attitude due to my enragement by what is going on.

I say, you teach ALL OF THE HISTORY, not just the minorities, not just the white's but ALL OF IT.

A big problem is they run out of time in history class, well one reason is they aren't moving fast enough. Force passing all history classes to graduate, and then force them to actually get off their lazy butts and read some material, and some reasons of stuff. And they'll do it, because no one wants to be a 7th year senior.

With an improvement in knowing WHO you are, and that means the ENTIRE history of America, from the slavery to the Wars to the politics, to where the ethnic groups came from...teaching people to call themselves AMERICANS and not African-Americans is what we need to do.

Because of POLITICAL CORRECTNESS our society has fractured, it is most visible in schools, its effect is people stop caring about going to high school, and try and find their identifictaions with their minorities.

And to think that this political correctness hasn't harmed the whites too, look at Neo-Nazism, it is WAY too strong in this nation, BECAUSE WHITES NOW HAVE BARELY ANYWHERE TO TURN. This nation has become a nation of the immediate foriegners, if your family was here for more than 3 generations, you can count your heritage as "racist".

Now everythign is geared to making the immediate immigrant feel like he isn't losing his identity. Well I'm sorry pals, but when you move here, you either become american, or go back to the hell hole you called home. We didn't spill our blood as a nation many times over to keep it free and "american" so that you can move here and turn it into Iraq, or Vietnam, or Korea, or Russia, or Germany, or Nigeria, or get the damn point.

This fracture in society is the root of it all, it filters in through media and socialization as I previously stated were the factors for dumbing down of students in High schools.

Now I probably blew a gasket or two back there, and seem kind of incoherent, which is why I tried to sum up what I was saying...but really, this is something you'll have to individually research, and study the problems "political correctness" is causing with the "American Identity".

Ironically, it fractures the recent but not NEWEST immigrants, I've asked people who are just in, and they'll call themselves americans, while people who's parents or maybe their grandparents moved here, will relate more to their ethnicity. And people who's families have been here a LONG time, have no idea what to call themselves. I sure don't, this isn't the America of my Grandparents, and my mother could be (if she'd apply) a "Daughter of the Revolution" because we've had family members fight in the Revolution.

That's why sadly I say, we need another World War to unite America once more =(

Anyways...Political Correctness evil, not only is it IN the text books, but it is in Rap, in Movies, IN VULGARITY, it is everywhere, and all that contributes. Political Correctness, is unfair credit to those who don't deserve least that's what it became, it like many things, didn't start out that way!

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posted on Nov, 25 2002 @ 11:54 PM
Last year my Son (8th grade 13yrs old) had to do a report on modern history..Since several other boys did the Gulf war as well..i helped him find a unique topic..we picked Fratricide...the teacher had no idea what the word ment..Now i know that Oregon schools are takeing a pounding..but come on!


posted on Nov, 27 2002 @ 09:54 AM
Hey, Nyeff, it might please you to know I read a report on homeschooling (something I was leary of because of the social skills aspect) that indicated the children of homeshooling are able to better adjust in society and posess greater self-confidence while scoring better.

It certainly isn't for every household, no doubt, and parental discipline is necessary, but that and private schooling is usually the best option nowadays - at least in my area.

posted on Nov, 27 2002 @ 09:59 AM
how is fratricide modern history......I mean its practially prehistoric...........or are you talking about military friendly fire stuff.

posted on Nov, 27 2002 @ 08:42 PM
maybe it would help if you looked it up in a dictionary ..

Yes it is the word for friendly Fire..

none the less the teacher should have known the word..


posted on Nov, 27 2002 @ 09:14 PM
Homeschooling is great for kids. Some of the most mature responsible well behaved and together kids I have ever met have been homeschooled.

I thought fratricide was when you killed all the people in the frat houses?

posted on Nov, 27 2002 @ 09:54 PM
I suppose I'am a little biased about homeschooling.I have two cousins that were homeschooled,and well they are different to say the least.But then again there parents are a little off too.They do have a very hard time dealing with people when one of their parents are not around.One of my cousins is 23 years old and still follows his dad around like a puppy.
They are both very smart and educated,they just never got and learned to deal with people,and are paying for it now.

Or maybe its just because they are Texan's..... Just kidding.

posted on Nov, 29 2002 @ 12:54 PM
Nyeff - Granting that you were not teaching your kid something completely wrong, I would have taken massive issue with a teacher giving me any guff, as I hope you did.
Home schooling has the biggest benefit in having kids get regular/daily attention from the most important people in their lives...their parents. Most schooling scenarios get attention by only coming up under the polar extremes: did the kid screw up or did he make honor roll? not the day to day that kids need.
And Bob, yes to giving parents tax relief but no to taking those monies from the public school. I don't see where both can't coincide.

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